For the first time, someone questioned my policy

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Why is that sneaky? It is plain site on the contract. It also limits me from trying to get more then the contract amount.

I also have a clause that if they try to defraud me, for example, say it is a birthday party and I show up it is a full blown wedding reception, I can leave and they still owe me. I can't then try to get more then the contract amount but your way you would want to get more.

That would never happen because I meet with clients ahead of time so I would be able to figure that out.

Don't know why this is such a thorn in your side but follow your contracts. Why have them if you are not going to stand by them.
 
Just realized, you are not even a DJ. So you have no idea about how we do things.

Maybe in the lighting business it is different.
 
I guess because I have the unique view of a client who also runs a successful business.

I understand CYA. I do it too. But these contracts appear to be trying to make you bullet proof, which I do not approve of.

Mike
 
Because a wedding reception takes much more planning. More hands on during. More equipment sometimes.

Usually more music research, introductions, personalized intros sometimes. A lot more organization. Usually more time involved before and during.

More involvement with other vendors like photo, video, catering, planners.

A 4 hour birthday party is about 5 to 6 hours of time spent. A 6 + hour wedding reception can be from 12- 20 hours of time spent.

Those are some of the reasons why.
 
Esoteric said:
I guess because I have the unique view of a client who also runs a successful business.

I understand CYA. I do it too. But these contracts appear to be trying to make you bullet proof, which I do not approve of.

Mike
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By all means lets make our contract so we can get screwed. :sqrolleyes:
 
Karl Langford said:
Because a wedding reception takes much more planning. More hands on during. More equipment sometimes.

Usually more music research, introductions, personalized intros sometimes. A lot more organization. Usually more time involved before and during.

More involvement with other vendors like photo, video, catering, planners.

A 4 hour birthday party is about 5 to 6 hours of time spent. A 6 + hour wedding reception can be from 12- 20 hours of time spent.

Those are some of the reasons why.
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What if the birthday party had photographers, catering, planners, etc? Would you charge more? Would you walk out?

So you provide two DJs for weddings, but not for parties (with the same equipment and number of guests)?

What about 8 hour parties? Most wedding receptions don't last that long, but the last birthday party I did did.

Why does a wedding involve more music research?

Mike
 
If I may interject a thought for a moment.

Karl's clause about not being able to sue for more than the contract amount does protect all parties equally.

Let's say he shows up to a birthday party which runs $500 (just making up a number for argument's sake) for his services. However, he gets there and within the first hour the place becomes too dangerous for him and his equipment so he invokes a clause about being able to pull the plug after reminding the clients several times about the situation.
But now those clients don't want to finish paying him because he left. So Karl takes said client to court. Now unfortunately Karl had to pass on a $1000 wedding for that same date because the birthday party was already booked. A wedding where the deposit check and contract arrive the day after the birthday party deposit and contract.

Karl's contract protects the client from being sued for the lost income of the wedding as well.

Sounds fair to me.






BTW Mike, Ducky and I are also getting married, so you're not the only one with the chance to view things from the B&G standpoint.
 
Esoteric said:
PS Just got an email from my lawyer. This contract clause is unenforceable.

Mike
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Hmm, a little problem with that Mike. You're in Texas, bound by Texas laws. Karl isn't in Texas.
 
I have read this entire thread and want to make a few points on the analogies used here.

But first, I get a "retainer fee" with the signed contract and the balance is payable on the day of, the contract states payment before setup, but very seldom do i enforce it. For College (frat and Sort parties) I always require payment in full before the doors are opened on the van.

The car analogy is flawed, because you aren't going to see your car until you have paid for the repairs (99% of the time you wouldn't even get to start it up)

Yes many caterers are paid the remainder of there money after the event is complete!

I don't know of any florist or bakers who have not been paid before the event takes place.

There's a lot more that I could add but I don't think it would make any difference, personally I think everyone should use whatever policy works for them!
 
Esoteric said:
PS Just got an email from my lawyer. This contract clause is unenforceable.

Mike
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You may need to find a another attorney it is my experience that just because they have the paper doesn't make them all competent!

I think you would be suprised to find what makes a contract and what makes it enforcable!

The biggest thing about a contract is that it is worded in such a manner that the intent of the drafter is clear and the signers are in agreement on the content of the contract. This is based on Virginia Law and is in Miches Law reference, Deeds and Contracts chapters #56, #57 and #58.

Of course every state can be a little different but for the most part these basics are nation wide.

Attorneys like to complicate things all they can (it makes them more money)
 
Thunder said:
Attorneys like to complicate things all they can (it makes them more money)
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More work hours, more money in their pocket.

By the way I don't see anything sneaky on the contract, like I said it protects both parties. And as it also has been mentioned a wedding is another ballgame than a regular party, regardless of how long it lasts.

Edit 2: Don't sign anything you don't read thoroughly. If you don't like it walk away.
 
Esoteric said:
What if the birthday party had photographers, catering, planners, etc? Would you charge more? Would you walk out?

Some do but I have never done a birthday party with a Grand intro, a first dance, table dismissing, planners, parents dances, anniversary dance, bouquet and garter activities, wedding party dance.


So you provide two DJs for weddings, but not for parties (with the same equipment and number of guests)?

I am a single operator. It is just me. My 12 yr old has started to come with me but I do not charge more for that. I use a larger set up for weddings.

What about 8 hour parties? Most wedding receptions don't last that long, but the last birthday party I did did.

I arrive 1 1/2 hours before the guests at a wedding. I am set up, everything is ready to go, I change into my suit and have music playing when the guests arrive. This can be 1 to 2 hours before dinner. I play 6 hours from "1/2 hour before dinner starts." So, I am there sometimes 9 or 10 hours and then tear down.

For most birthday parties, I show up while the guests are there because they do not use me for dinner music. I set up and play 3 or 4 hours. Not much music research unless they need a special song. I am there to play music 99% of the time. Every once in awhile I do an activity.


Why does a wedding involve more music research?

See first bold section. All the special dances, must plays, obscure requests.
Mike
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Being a lighting guy, you don't know what most DJs do behind the scenes. All you see is the performance time.

So as you can see, the more I put into a party, be it a wedding or a regular party, I charge more.
 
Karl Langford said:
Being a lighting guy, you don't know what most DJs do behind the scenes. All you see is the performance time.
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1. Birthday parties require limbo music, games, more requests, etc. Same amount of "stuff" just different "stuff". I have done parties with more special dances than any wedding I have ever seen. I did a frat party with special lighting for each of their 10 traditional dances!

2. You said more people not more gear. But why do you use more gear for a wedding with 50 people than a birthday party with 150 people?

3. So you do less work for parties even if a client requests you to do more? If the party lasts 8 hours I want a DJ there playing music for 8 hours with activities. But you would still charge for more a wedding than a party like this?

4. What about music for the activities, obscure requests, must plays, special dances, etc?

I know I don't see the behind the scenes stuff. That is why I am asking. If one of my clients ask I could tell them specifically the difference between a rock and roll show, a theater show, an install, etc and why I charge what I do for each down to an itemized bill for the time and what every minute was spent doing.

All the hem hawing around reeks of bill padding. Something I am finding more and more of now that I am planning a wedding.

Mike
 
Boy this is fun.


Esoteric said:
1. Birthday parties require limbo music, games, more requests, etc. Same amount of "stuff" just different "stuff". I have done parties with more special dances than any wedding I have ever seen. I did a frat party with special lighting for each of their 10 traditional dances!

My experience I have not had birthday parties like that. I don't have a college within 60 miles from me so I don't do frat parties. Maybe the limbo but that is a stick and 3 songs on a disc I have had for 9 years. Birthday parties you usually don't get requests ahead of time, during the event yes. Maybe a couple and usually not obscure ones you have to hunt down.

2. You said more people not more gear. But why do you use more gear for a wedding with 50 people than a birthday party with 150 people?

I cannot remember when I said anything about more people. I looked but can't find it. Can you show me? I use more gear and a facade for my weddings. Most of my weddings are 150 + people. Birthday parties usually are theh 50 and under.

3. So you do less work for parties even if a client requests you to do more? If the party lasts 8 hours I want a DJ there playing music for 8 hours with activities. But you would still charge for more a wedding than a party like this?

I have never done an 8 hour "Party" If I did, it would end up being higher priced than most of my weddings because of the time. If I did a 8 hour party with activities all night, no one would be left. They want to dance. My weddings are a flat rate unless they ask to go longer.

4. What about music for the activities, obscure requests, must plays, special dances, etc?

Again, my experience is they don't have many obscure requests and the parties are more for dancing than activities. Usually no special dances at the parties.

I know I don't see the behind the scenes stuff. That is why I am asking. If one of my clients ask I could tell them specifically the difference between a rock and roll show, a theater show, an install, etc and why I charge what I do for each down to an itemized bill for the time and what every minute was spent doing.

All the hem hawing around reeks of bill padding. Something I am finding more and more of now that I am planning a wedding.

No bill padding. Like I said. I have a flat rate for my weddings. No hidden costs. Only add on is mileage after the first 60 round trip, OT if they want to go longer and if they want my game show for a wedding party activity I charge to bring that. And they know all this before they sign the contract.

Mike
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Anything else I can answer for you?
 
I do 50% with contract, Balance due day-of. Haven't had any issues yet, and have peeps WANT to pay me bal early all the time - I just don't initiate it but I never say No:)

I've only had a prob with a check being returned once - and that wasn't really due to NSF, she had her purse stolen couple days after the event, so the accounts were frozen.

When I got with her she explained and made good on the balance in cash. She felt bad, and I didn't ding her (though I "could have") for the NSF fee at my bank because I felt bad for her.
 
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