DMX Controlling of Timing of Lights

Recordspinner said:

Hello Everyone,

NEW TO THE SITE .... first post. Hoping to get some great input, advice, and suggestions. Maybe even be able to add some of my own insights.

As a Mobile DJ, I'm new to using DMX to control my lights. I understand the procedure of making a 'scene', then putting them together into a chase. From what I understand, I can control the fading and the speed of the chase; but this is an adjustment that affects the entire chase (same fade, same speed). Is it possible to program the chase to where different lights stay lite for a different time then the other lights. In other words, can I program my DMX controller to program a scene of BLUE lights that stay lit for 10 seconds, then the next step in the chase is a set of yellow lights that I would only want lit for 3 seconds ?? If it helps to answer my question, I am using a ROXVILLE ROCKFORCE W4 384 CHANNEL WIRELESS DMX CONTROLLER.

Thanks in advance for the input.

RecordSpinner (Curt')

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with the controller you have, im pretty sure you cant... with a dmx software controller... yes

As Taso said, I don't believe you are going to get out of it what you are looking for, without software. Many in here will gladly tell you what software to look into. I did the same thing you did starting out. I bought a controller similar to the one you mentioned. Its great for saved scenes, but doesn't do well on automation. I eventually switched over to ADJ myDMXgo, which I love, but some will argue that it's not reliable.

Your controller does not track cues forward so, you have to build scenes in a fashion that mimics the kind of tracking you imagine.

To do what you describe it's necessary to build your scenes in additive fashion that when run in a chase will create the illusion of forward tracking. In other words, since each scene in your controller is a new blank slate - we need to include in each subsequent scene any portion of a prior scene we want to retain.

Example: Blue to yellow with a lingering blue:

Scene 1 - blue lights at 100%
Scene 2 - blue lights at 100% with yellow lights at 50%
Scene 3 - blue lights at 100% with yellow lights at 100%
Scene 4 - blue lights at 50% with yellow lights at 100%
Scene 5 - yellow lights at 100%

The transition is smoother with additional steps. But, there's a problem - It takes a LOT of fixtures to build a good light show this way because while you track certain fixtures forward in one state - you need other fixtures to add new layers. Color mixing fixtures can give you more possibility with fewer fixtures, whereas a color scrolling fixture requires time to get to a new color and that may require it to be at 0% while making that move. It's important to know if any color changing light you have uses color mixing or a scroll wheel.

With your chosen controller the "scenes" are static states and the chase is simply a variable rate of sequencing those steady states. You can't have movement or timing within a scene. Movement is "implied" by the combination of chase timing and motor speeds.

I find DMX go to be more 'auto', than scene by scene programming. Some fixtures don't play well. (mini kinta for instance).
I use it for my uplights and some of my other lights for school dances, as well as some lights havre remotes - so gives me a lot of flexibility in what lights to run, when and the like.

I use a sushi-ds, donner wireless with a different transmitter and one of the software packages, lumidesk, from the sushi folks. Inexpensive and it works reliably.
You can do anything...but that takes time and patience and there is ALWAYS a learning curve so it seems. LOL

I got 2 new lights and decided to reprogram my whole setup - great, but you need IDEAS - you can't write a story without a plot, so to say.

So...I have all white slow for the bridal dances. easy enough.
An all color fading slow for slow dances. I had an all blue and all red slow dances too, but want to adjust that. I jsut don't want the same lighting for every slow dance.

For fast/normal dancing I have 1 sound active, 1 very high energy and 2 more normal choices with different patterns and lights.

The software allows some live control - color, BPM, etc...I watched all the youtube videos so will try to incorporate that as well as keyboard shortcuts. I run it off a PC (which is also my backup pc for events and ceremony PC for some weddings)

Recordspinner said:

When I watch videos, music shows, live concerts and see so many lights that are synchronized perfectly to the music and what's going on ..... it just mystifies me. I can understand how someone could sit in front of a computer and make all kind of macros and run the program ..... QUESTION .... how are they always able to make the 'lights' match a live show, when sometimes an artist may slow down or speed up their performance?

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The lighting cues are MIDI sequenced and typically triggered by the music or events on stage just as music sequencers and other devices. For DJs it is far more practical to find a plugin for your DJ software that can feed MIDI information to a select lighting controller or software app.

You are using a "controller" not a lighting console. A lighting console is a self-contained computer system built entirely around lighting design. It is "intelligent" at a level that a controller isn't and that's why a console costs $20,000+ and a controller is affordable at $200+

At best, you can build simple steps applied to small groups (active channels) with a limited number of parameters. You're also limited by the quality of the light fixtures. Inexpensive fixtures in the DJ class have a low resolution when it comes to precision movement and other mechanical changes. You're also not going to get the classic "beam" trace without haze. It's a simple HARDWARE solution for simple lighting - and that's really the point: Keep it simple.

A DJ event doesn't require complex lighting to be really great. Slow dances for example: A soothing soft color fill with one or two fixed and slowly rotating breakups is all you need for a slow dance.

On a controller that's a very simple scene. You can change the underlying color or the breakup position (edit) and just re-save the variations as new scenes. Then put those scenes in a very slow chase with moderate fade times to have a look that gracefully moves and flows. It doesn't have to be synced to the music as long as the rate "feels" right for the sound. Your controller probably lets you also manually adjust the rate and fade on the fly.

You can even achieve this example effect using old school par cans and ellipsoidal spots. It doesn't require intelligent lighting or even LEDs to create really great light shows. Most of the looks that intelligent lighting creates originated with conventional fixtures - now with multi-parameter lights it just takes fewer fixtures to create many different effects.

You have to commit to building good scenes because DJ DMX controllers are built on an expectation of PLAYBACK rather than tracking. They also have multiple page layers and do not recall fader positions between layers. That can cause real chaos if you are trying to make live adjustments across layers. You also have to be consistent with your setup. When you design a given scene the lights and dance floor space need to be consistent in each setup as you go from one venue to another.

going thru the tutorials of my software, some version says it's capable of midi input. My controller had a midi port.
I don't know if VDJ has any software output that the DMX software could read directly, or how to get the midi info into the laptop.
Haven't begun to research it yet