Data projector gobo (long throw) this past weekend

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!
What a pissing match! I've said this till I'm blue in the face. Use whatever equipment you need to use to do the job. I carry a 9m to protect myself. Does that mean that the person carrying a 40 or 45 are wrong? Am I? Let it go and use what you want!

And people wonder why I don't post pics and gig logs anymore........
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
Kevin Nichols said:
What a pissing match! I've said this till I'm blue in the face. Use whatever equipment you need to use to do the job. I carry a 9m to protect myself. Does that mean that the person carrying a 40 or 45 are wrong? Am I? Let it go and use what you want!

And people wonder why I don't post pics and gig logs anymore........
Click to expand...

You're right, Kevin....I let it get to me. It gets old seeing the same folks basically be-little anything others do. You'll note that I no longer do gig logs or post much anymore as well for most of the same reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Proformance said:
I suppose when Walmart and Sam's Club are your primary equipment suppliers ...then you would be correct.
Click to expand...

C'mon .. they can rent your stuff for not much more ... Just pointing out that there is NO separation anymore between what some of you perceive is "pro grade equipment" (Lekos and such) and what others here use to their benefit (data projectors) based on to image quality or capability unless you go to extremes (very long distance throws, moving head requirements) ... the vast majority need neither. If you want to believe that what you have is somehow "special" and anything else is detrimental to the profession, drink that koolaid. Just because YOU don't do it doesn't mean it isn't being done the BETTER way for the jobs being done.

ahoustondj said:
... As we utilize more and more consumer products, other see that and feel that they can do it themselves, so they copy. I am not saying that one should not use a projector, what I am saying is that there are Pro Grade and Consumer Grade versions.
Click to expand...

Do you think ANYONE at a wedding will know or care whether you have a so-called pro grade projector or a so-called consumer grade one? I couldn't tell and I've had data projectors for over 20 years. I used to demo a lot of computer software in the 90's and early 2000's and had "pro-grade equipment" costing $10K and more and my current Sharp is brighter and more versatile. There really is little difference physically between the two, at least with current models. Robustness, able to survive travel, etc. ... maybe, but you won't be able to see that, so not sure again how clients/customers will care.
 
rickryan.com said:
More accurately, the equivalent of DJing with turntables or a laptop. But I'm sure you love that vinyl, right?
Click to expand...

Wow! Spoken with from a place of really shallow insight. Consider this:
I don't need turntables - but, I can still get paid a premium to use turntables at events that require an authentic disc jockey - because I have that authentic skill. A DJ with just a laptop is hard pressed to prove any authentic skills. There is nothing to be done that has any visual appeal at all - nothing that Ableton can't do with a few cue points. The value of of that kind of DJ will always be weighted by the lowest common denominator of computer proficiency in society at large, and functional obsolescence as technology marches on. The ability to match beats for example, is by itself today - a mute skill.

The issue isn't the look of the gobo/image on the floor or the wall - that works. What's missing from your consideration and all the lovely photo's posted ...is the ugly tripods holding a point source at or only marginally above eye level. It's the constant clutter, dumbing down of technical arts, and overall impression of what you sell and that yes - it's kind of a pampered waste of money considering the method being employed and impact on aesthetics over all. Are you really accomplishing more with less or are you unwittingly reducing your own technical competency? Is this a step forward in career development or is it just another first guy on the block with a chocolate fountain?

This is where the rubber meets the road: There is no separation between the desire to use the lowest common denominator of methodology from the simultaneous complaint that "everyone's a DJ." In fact, you become "everyone" by setting the bar of how you approach an application to low to be sustainable. How does this limited skill of using a projector advance you within the field? How will it serve you to attract more challenging and lucrative prospects seeking multiple projections within a space, color washing breakups, overlays, or unique rigging?

The answer is: it doesn't, and that's why when you look around you see that "everyone is doing it." This is the baseline source behind that age old gripe about "what's wrong with the DJ industry." It's not the price people charge ...it's the proficiency they are attempting to price that simply doesn't last.
 
Last edited:
So the turntables and the Source 4s are implied proficiency? Some of the highest paid DJs show up with nothing more than a laptop .. I don't think any of the folks that pay to see them think they can do the same because they have the same laptop.

I think some of it is the same syndrome that makes people need to drive Mercedes, wear Prada and drink Crystal. Everyone can run .. doesn't make them all think they're Usain Bolt.
 
I don't understand how some (ones that thin skinned) that every remark, suggestion, comment has to be taken so literally. It seems to me that the ones who are thin skinned are the ones who most often are looking for that proverbial "pat on the back". I went back and read from post #1, nobody was putting down anyone. Bob and I were pointing out things just as a FYI and discussion. Why do some have to take it so personal? Yet we want to call yourself a Professional! Nobody said anything looked bad, other options was what was being pointed out and discussed. DJs are their own worst enemies and a lot of the demise of this industry lies squarely on the shoulders of the DJs themselves.

If everyone wants to go along with I will do what works for me then why do we even waste time coming on the Forum in the first case? How are we to learn whats out there? A good percentage of the DJs don't even have the fortitude to take the time to go out and visit Major Venues to see how others do things in a different way. They want to follow the masses. Talk to them about buying a book to read on improving themselves and they are too cheap to do so. Sorry, but I am calling it as I see it. Why be afraid to be critiqued if you post pics of a Gig? Are you doing something that wrong which you want to hide? If you don't want to share then how do you expect others to learn what works and what does not work. Coming on the Forum and not sharing is like being selfish, all take and no give.

There is always the ignore button if you don't want to read certain posters.
 
Canute .. you were stating things as fact, not opinion .. big difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
steve149 said:
Canute .. you were stating things as fact, not opinion .. big difference.
Click to expand...
Some of the things that I stated IS indeed fact...you have a problem with that? Should I say "I think one plus one equal two." when indeed I know for a fact that it is a fact to say "One plus one does equal two"?

You guys just don't get it and it does not surprise me that it is always some of the ones who use this business as an "on the side" venture or as a Hobby. The DJ line has been blurred a long time ago by the Wannabes, those who really don't want to spend the coin to get the best. They claim to have a business of their own yet have to ask the wife permission to buy their new toys. Whats up with that?
 
"Water is wet" is a fact, "waterless cooking is best" is an opinion. I think when a few people share their opinion, it is conveyed as a statement of condescending fact.

From you above:

At least if everyone was still using Vinyl there won't be all that pirated music and thus all the Wannabees - opinion, not fact

How can one be different if they are mixed in a pack of mediocre offerings? - opinionated question

It is stuff like that that sets me apart from some of the rest. - opinion, not fact

Bob and I were pointing out things just as a FYI and discussion. - opinion, not fact (an FYI is usually stated as fact)

I don't think anyone is opposed to critique, and my skin is as thick as anyones, but I don't want to be told things that aren't based in fact, as if they were in fact, a fact. (say that 3 times fast)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
steve149 said:
"Water is wet" is a fact, "waterless cooking is best" is an opinion. I think when a few people share their opinion, it is conveyed as a statement of condescending fact.

From you above:

At least if everyone was still using Vinyl there won't be all that pirated music and thus all the Wannabees - opinion, not fact

How can one be different if they are mixed in a pack of mediocre offerings? - opinionated question

It is stuff like that that sets me apart from some of the rest. - opinion, not fact

Bob and I were pointing out things just as a FYI and discussion. - opinion, not fact (an FYI is usually stated as fact)

I don't think anyone is opposed to critique, and my skin is as thick as anyones, but I don't want to be told things that aren't based in fact, as if they were in fact, a fact. (say that 3 times fast)
Click to expand...
We go from Projector to this....... OK I will indulge you. I can put my money where my mouth is. Waterless Cookware being the best is NOT an opinion, it IS a fact.... but how would you know...you don't own a set of Waterless cokware. If you did you would still have it. I have been using mine, the one and only set, since 1976...how about yours. Can you cook 4 - 6 Potatoes in a pan with only six tablespoons of water? Can you cook a Chuck Steak (Economy Cut Of Beef) in a Fry Pan and not only have it come out tender but with little or no shrinkage? Don't bet on this one fella, you will lose! OOps I forgot... you would not pay the price for it because good health may be a priority for you. Its just Pots and pans to you....for me it is Cookware!

With Vinyl there were less pirates as you had to buy your own albums.
If everyone wears the same colors how can they be noticed?
Yep, find stuff that sets you apart and you will be noticed.
What Bob said has truth to it but some here are in denial!
 
steve149 said:
So the turntables and the Source 4s are implied proficiency? Some of the highest paid DJs show up with nothing more than a laptop .. I don't think any of the folks that pay to see them think they can do the same because they have the same laptop.
Click to expand...

Steve, you offer the perfect example of what Canute says about personalizing a post by turning what was a note about the ability to charge extra for a certain talent when it is being sought - into a contest about who the better DJ is.

The fact of actual practice is - that when a performance requires the visual impact of a turntablist - then YES all of your self proclaimed high priced laptop DJs are not qualified for the job. Those DJs who are qualified may charge a premium for the talent being sought. The methodology you choose to resolve any given job requirement are a factual demonstration of your proficiency. For example. show me a laptop DJ who uses a keyboard and mouse rather than a tactile controller and I'll show you a DJ who lacks the talent to mix. Show me a DJ lacking those kind of talents and I'll show you a DJ who outside of price or convenience offers people no unique reason to remember him.

Yes, there is a demonstrated proficiency (not merely implied) that results from someone properly rigging a Source 4 that is not present in a DJ that props an Epson LCD on a speaker stand a midst the field of vision. The former will inherently be trusted to have more depth of capability ...and that implied proficiency leads to further connection with unique opportunity.

BTW: Your opinion about facts is also in fact, just an opinion ..since it is your opinions that formulate your perceptions and therefore the relevant factual outcome of your action or reaction. Thus, while you may challenge someone else's facts with your own - your challenge is formulated only from an opinion and the bias selection of facts to support that opinion, based on an opinion of other facts that fail to support the original opinion. That in fact, is my opinion of the facts. (Say that three times fast!) :)

- - - Updated - - -

steve149 said:
"Water is wet" is a fact
Click to expand...

That would be an opinion.. where you would find disagreement from all manner of ducks and other water foul. :)
 
Last edited:
Proformance said:
The fact of actual practice is - that when a performance requires the visual impact of a turntablist -
Click to expand...

Granted, I've only been doing this DJ thing the past 4 years. Odd thing though, I've pitched/talked with well in excess of 1000 prospects and never once heard anybody mention wanting turntables. Bottom line, proficiency or professionalism or whatever else you think you can demonstrate by use of lekos or turntables, if it doesn't sell dates then it means nothing to me. Obviously, you are still clinging to the pride you feel for such talents but in my book that just puts you into the "has been" pile. I'll gladly go up against your ilk with prospects. Your percentages are so extremely low it's a joke to even talk about it.

BTW Kevin, I do hate that you don't post anymore. I realize you don't like the combative stuff but I just wanted you to know I miss seeing you and the excellence you demonstrate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Rick,
Not everyone is limited to doing basic Weddings. Big Productions, where people pay a Cover Charge and buy their beverages pay Wayyyyyyyy more than Weddings, without the headaches of the issues that come along with Weddings. If you went to do a big Club gig here in Houston without two turntables or two Platter Style Controllers you will be laughed out the door. If you could not manage to mix in 7-10 songs in a 15 minute period it would be the last time that a Promoter would hire you. There is more to life than sucking up to Brides and Venues. One does not also have to bite their fingernails hoping for good reviews from people on Wedding Wire. There is more to DJ life than Weddings. That is the easy part, those are easy to do.
One can play music for an event or create music by mixes for an event. I am not knocking what you are doing if it is making you money, all the more power to you. If Weddings are your niche then by all means stick to it but don't discredit those who can do Weddings and more. Wedding DJs can gain more from those who do Multi Function shows more so than than Vice Versa. Even wires hanging all over the place is acceptable at other Multi Function shows. How cool is that! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Proformance said:
Steve, you offer the perfect example of what Canute says about personalizing a post by turning what was a note about the ability to charge extra for a certain talent when it is being sought - into a contest about who the better DJ is.

The fact of actual practice is - that when a performance requires the visual impact of a turntablist - then YES all of your self proclaimed high priced laptop DJs are not qualified for the job. Those DJs who are qualified may charge a premium for the talent being sought. The methodology you choose to resolve any given job requirement are a factual demonstration of your proficiency. For example. show me a laptop DJ who uses a keyboard and mouse rather than a tactile controller and I'll show you a DJ who lacks the talent to mix. Show me a DJ lacking those kind of talents and I'll show you a DJ who outside of price or convenience offers people no unique reason to remember him.

BTW: Your opinion about facts is also in fact, just an opinion ..since it is your opinions that formulate your perceptions and therefore the relevant factual outcome of your action or reaction. Thus, while you may challenge someone else's facts with your own - your challenge is formulated only from an opinion and the bias selection of facts to support that opinion, based on an opinion of other facts that fail to support the original opinion. That in fact, is my opinion of the facts. (Say that three times fast!) :)

That would be an opinion.. where you would find disagreement from all manner of ducks and other water foul. :)
Click to expand...

What contest about a better DJ? I assume you are better than me .. heck, I assume most here are better than I am. I have no issue with that. That doesn't mean for a minute that your opinions are any more fact than mine are.

How many wedding/bar/reunion/company events require the "visual impact" of a turntablist? That would be an opinion, and one not shared by too many any more. If turntables are your thing or you like the feel of the platters and you go old school .. fine, but don't point to turntables, lekos, etc. and try to make a "factual" point that those are the realm of the real DJ, and not the Walmart kind.

and please:

Proformance said:
Yes, there is a demonstrated proficiency (not merely implied) that results from someone properly rigging a Source 4 that is not present in a DJ that props an Epson LCD on a speaker stand a midst the field of vision. The former will inherently be trusted to have more depth of capability ...and that implied proficiency leads to further connection with unique opportunity.
Click to expand...

That cracks me up ... thanks for the laugh.

BTW, ducks get wet in water .. that's a fact.
 
ahoustondj said:
Some of the things that I stated IS indeed fact...you have a problem with that? Should I say "I think one plus one equal two." when indeed I know for a fact that it is a fact to say "One plus one does equal two"?

You guys just don't get it and it does not surprise me that it is always some of the ones who use this business as an "on the side" venture or as a Hobby. The DJ line has been blurred a long time ago by the Wannabes, those who really don't want to spend the coin to get the best. They claim to have a business of their own yet have to ask the wife permission to buy their new toys. Whats up with that?
Click to expand...

First we share that DJing is an "on the side venture" as you have other work as well .. we can talk degree, but it's still the same. And I have $15K invested in equipment, so not sure I haven't spent coin. So I get there are things that we all wish to pass along, but I also know that most of it is our personal opinion .. and I relish getting informed opinion. Just don't like opinion presented as fact .. that's all.

- - - Updated - - -

Proformance said:
You're just wrong. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Not possible. :)
 
ahoustondj said:
We go from Projector to this....... OK I will indulge you. I can put my money where my mouth is. Waterless Cookware being the best is NOT an opinion, it IS a fact.... but how would you know...you don't own a set of Waterless cokware. If you did you would still have it. I have been using mine, the one and only set, since 1976...how about yours. Can you cook 4 - 6 Potatoes in a pan with only six tablespoons of water? Can you cook a Chuck Steak (Economy Cut Of Beef) in a Fry Pan and not only have it come out tender but with little or no shrinkage? Don't bet on this one fella, you will lose! OOps I forgot... you would not pay the price for it because good health may be a priority for you. Its just Pots and pans to you....for me it is Cookware!

With Vinyl there were less pirates as you had to buy your own albums.
If everyone wears the same colors how can they be noticed?
Yep, find stuff that sets you apart and you will be noticed.
What Bob said has truth to it but some here are in denial!
Click to expand...

I only brought up waterless cooking as it served the purpose of an opinion as fact argument, not because I want to discuss it's merits. BTW, I did search Consumer Reports and a few other fairly non-biased evaluation sites and lo-and-behold, waterless cookware isn't found. Lack of facts typically makes something opinion. Not saying it isn't a good method to cook, but I find roasting a very tasty option for some things, grilling a better option for some, and even griddles the best for others. So I can't conceive that any cookware would be the best, just best for a limited scope of things.

But you like it, I like you, so I accept that your opinion is it's the best.
 
steve149 said:
I only brought up waterless cooking as it served the purpose of an opinion as fact argument, not because I want to discuss it's merits. BTW, I did search Consumer Reports and a few other fairly non-biased evaluation sites and lo-and-behold, waterless cookware isn't found. Lack of facts typically makes something opinion. Not saying it isn't a good method to cook, but I find roasting a very tasty option for some things, grilling a better option for some, and even griddles the best for others. So I can't conceive that any cookware would be the best, just best for a limited scope of things.

But you like it, I like you, so I accept that your opinion is it's the best.
Click to expand...
You could not find Waterless Cookware on an Internet Search???? What Computer and Internet are YOU using? I won't even bother to post links. I will leave you with this FACT. True Waterless Cookware is NOT sold in stores. There are a lot of Knock offs. It is sold in homes and has been for umpteen years, maybe even before you were born. It has ALL the benefits of all the other Cookware out there with none of the drawbacks. It is the most healthy and sanitary form of cooking, anywhere. It will even cook a Projector. Thats all I have to say. :D
 
I did find links to waterless cooking .. on sites that either sell waterless cooking pans/pots or books about it. Was looking for 3rd party reliable reviews (not blogs) and couldn't find any, though I only went down 2 pages, so maybe one was missed.

As to cooking a projector, I assume you mean the Leko type, as we all now know the video/data projectors are too solid.
 
steve149 said:
I did find links to waterless cooking .. on sites that either sell waterless cooking pans/pots or books about it. Was looking for 3rd party reliable reviews (not blogs) and couldn't find any, though I only went down 2 pages, so maybe one was missed.

As to cooking a projector, I assume you mean the Leko type, as we all now know the video/data projectors are too solid.
Click to expand...
What you are really looking for is a review that discredits it so you can come back and say "Ahh hah", gotcha! As long as a manufacturer can back up their claims then that is all that should matter. In the meantime, you can continue to use what you have and close your mind to something that could be better for you. Again, some people have different priorities about their health.

I know you don't want Blogs but these days, Blogs and reviews are almost the same. There are lots of independent reviews on this site. Best of all, other brands and makes are discussed so you really can't call it as being biased by one manufacturer. Again, don't expect to find true Waterless Cookware for sale in Stores. There is a close and similar product online which can give you nearly the same results but the cookware is no use if you don't use it properly. It was not designed to be used as just any other pots and pans. http://waterlesscookwarereviews.com/

Lets move this discussion to another thread! See new Thread "Waterless Cookware".
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back