Bribes
- Thread starter toqer
- Start date
No. One big reason why my patrons like me. I've actually been told this on many occasions. I actually GET tips because of this.
They, and new singers, may get some extra personal attention in my greeting, or I may come over to talk a bit ( which may make them feel a bit important), but NO special treatment in regard to karaoke.
Ick on the software...
My logistics question wasn't about the rotation, but you. How do you handle the bribes and rebribes ( yeah, I made the word up).
See, I'm not the only one that sees them...
Since I'm not super karaoke savvy (hence no karaoke in my software(yet)), will you folks kindly edumacate me on what the rotation actually is?
Are we talking ego time, or the Earth revolving?
That to me, would make a big difference in the tip/bribe potential...
Rotation in its simplist terms is just a method to ensure everyone has equal stage time throughout the night. So let's say you me and Joe all turn in 3 tickets each. Without rotation, the playlist might look like this.
toqer
toqer
toqer
Joe
Joe
Joe
Rick
Rick
Rick
Doesn't really get the mic around the room too much does it? Ok now with rotation applied.
toqer 1
Joe
Rick
toqer 2
Joe
Rick
toqer 3
Joe
Rick
As you can see, rotation pretty much equals things out so we all get equal time on stage. Each time one set of folks is passed it's called a "round"
Now here's where rotation gets messy, what do you do with new singers? On a small 3 man rotation, lets say mikey wants to sing too, he'd probably get put at the end of the current round.
toqer 1
Joe
Rick
Mikey
toqer 2
Joe
Rick
toqer 3
Joe
Rick
Let's say that rotation is 20 to 30 people though. At 3-4 minutes a song, times having to wait through 20 people, customers get mad quick. With autOKdj we have some neat stuff to handle this, namely new singer priority and max wait time.
toqer
toqer
toqer
Joe
Joe
Joe
Rick
Rick
Rick
Doesn't really get the mic around the room too much does it? Ok now with rotation applied.
toqer 1
Joe
Rick
toqer 2
Joe
Rick
toqer 3
Joe
Rick
As you can see, rotation pretty much equals things out so we all get equal time on stage. Each time one set of folks is passed it's called a "round"
Now here's where rotation gets messy, what do you do with new singers? On a small 3 man rotation, lets say mikey wants to sing too, he'd probably get put at the end of the current round.
toqer 1
Joe
Rick
Mikey
toqer 2
Joe
Rick
toqer 3
Joe
Rick
Let's say that rotation is 20 to 30 people though. At 3-4 minutes a song, times having to wait through 20 people, customers get mad quick. With autOKdj we have some neat stuff to handle this, namely new singer priority and max wait time.
See, I'm not the only one that sees them...
Since I'm not super karaoke savvy (hence no karaoke in my software(yet)), will you folks kindly edumacate me on what the rotation actually is?
Are we talking ego time, or the Earth revolving?
That to me, would make a big difference in the tip/bribe potential...
Toqer has already explained how the rotations work... pretty basically it should work just like a paper rotation except all the decisions are made by the computer with little input needed by the KJ...
As for bribes... yeah we are talkin mostly EGO or more simply and in most cases they just don't want to wait for their proper turn in rotation... I'd say the only time I've seen it be an Earth Revolving Around Me type is the one toqer described with bribing $400 to sing 4 in a row....
The thing is the bribe is only that particular song in that particular round... anything else that singer will sing that night still follows normal rotation rules in the remaining rounds.
The thing as a whole relies on the fact that your crowd knows that this is the practice and accepts it as such...
I was out at Toqer's club last november and witnessed the bribe scenerio first hand... at first I was like most of you... No bribes even when this hot chick was rubbing her ample boobies on me... I told her to ask Toqer since truely it was his show and I was simply running it under his guidence... he then explained the system... and well the night went smooth as butter after that and we got enough in Bribes to go get breakfast....
Here's the trick... a bribe is only for moving up in position... there is nothing that says that the particular bribe will keep you in the new spot should someone else come and do the same thing...
R1
Rob
John
Sam
Mike
Mark
Derick
Now Derick bribes $3 new rotation for the current round:
R1
Rob
John
Derick
Sam
Mike
Mark
Same round now Mark wants to move up $4
R1
Rob
Mark
John
Derick
Sam
Mike
We move into round 2 and the computer snaps the rotation back to normal
R2
Rob
John
Sam
Mike
Mark
Derick
Now that's as I understand it in its most basic form. Now in a small rotation like the above example you are not likely to see people vieing for postion like this... More often you'd get this when the rotation is soooo large that it becomes all one big rotation for the night meaning there is no R2.
///Hijack\\\
Here's another neat little tidbit...
How many of you continue to take slips from your singers even though you know you wont have time to get that singer up for that song?
I'll bet a lot of you do...
Not with AutOKdj... it tells you when you've run out of space for new singers or new songs from existing singers... if it says it is out of room for new requests it will place them or can place them in a standby queue... this way their request is there and if someone leaves before their turn comes up a new slot may open up and they would then be first to be positioned into it.
///End Hijack\\\
Which brings us back to the bribe thing... see with autokdj if you make it into the rotation with your songs before "Sell Out" occurs you are guaranteed to sing that song, period.
Bribing just changes the "when" and not the "if"
Here's another neat little tidbit...
How many of you continue to take slips from your singers even though you know you wont have time to get that singer up for that song?
I'll bet a lot of you do...
Not with AutOKdj... it tells you when you've run out of space for new singers or new songs from existing singers... if it says it is out of room for new requests it will place them or can place them in a standby queue... this way their request is there and if someone leaves before their turn comes up a new slot may open up and they would then be first to be positioned into it.
///End Hijack\\\
Which brings us back to the bribe thing... see with autokdj if you make it into the rotation with your songs before "Sell Out" occurs you are guaranteed to sing that song, period.
Bribing just changes the "when" and not the "if"
Bribes are looked down on in this part of the 'States. I've seen hosts lose gigs if they take them. I don't even take "free drinks." (I negotiate for free non-alcoholic drinks all night & keep to a 2-alcohol-drink limit for myself.)
I've had people tip me at the end of the night - that goes right to the bartenders along with my tip to them. As hectic as hosting gets sometimes, they really work hard (& usually make less than me.)
I've had people tip me at the end of the night - that goes right to the bartenders along with my tip to them. As hectic as hosting gets sometimes, they really work hard (& usually make less than me.
)and what good judgement in working the rotation, (are u up next man or what???)
My rotation is automated. Customers enter their tickets in on a touch screen kiosk. My job amounts to looking at a screen to see who's next and handing them a mic. I might jiggle some knobs to adjust the sound a bit, that's it.
Oh I got 3 places I can look to see who's next too. My computer, and 2 computers setup as remote "Playlist Screens". If I really wanted to be fancy, i'd get myself one of those phones that can do web browsing, and keep the playlist screen in my pocket at all times. Guess what? It doesn't matter if i'm out back smoking now does it?
To a lot of you "A" types, this might sound like way to much for you to let go. In fact, it took me and JW a while to just "Let go" and let the software do the work for us.
Some of you are still wasting time using a 9v battery on top of piles of paper to determine where you are in rotation. I don't even have to think about it. Not a 9v battery? How unprofessional to not use a 9v battery as a placeholder for your pitiful paper rotations.
I think JW is right in that maybe some of you aren't equipped for a bribe system. It's actually a lot of fun. I think it has nothing to do with where you're from (Utah maybe, but they charge extra for a same day laundered shirt there too, as well as Express mail) Someone, somewhere is always willing to pay extra to get it sooner.
Favorite Office Space quote:
"Look Bobs, It's not that I don't like my job, it's just that I don't care!"
I don't care if you flash me. My wife is 38DD
I don't care if the babysitter is expecting you home. You should have planned better.
I don't care if you're from out of town and you have a plane in the morning. Lose an hour or two of sleep or stay up all night and sleep on the plane.
I'll care when you have money. Show me the money and i'll accomidate you accordingly. Put a price on bad behavior. Let em bribe you till they have no more and when they are out of money begging you "C'MON MAN I GAVE YOU ALL THAT MONEY" You look at them and calmly say "There's a price to pay for cutting in front of people that were waiting patiently." and walk away as your automated machine takes care of the next singer in line.
Here's the kicker. Our methods have integrity because they are a strict set of principles we follow by, and we never deviate from that. My $2 tipping regulars and I often wonder "WTF was that guys problem?" and laugh at them after they leave. Usually I'll round out my night with some regulars eating dinfest at Denny's or Taco Bravo.
1) OK Toq, this time the bad's on you. No need to knock how others run their show. MY slips are held down by by the disc that goes with it in the rotation. on a surface especially for that purpose. The NEXT rotation's slips are a card holder, and added as I go. Some people may not be organized enough to handle slips in a speedy and efficient manner, but I have no problem - to the point of winning a speed loading contest against a PC... I've had years of practice.
Now, hijack aside:
2) I love your list, except for the money part, of course. But I still have unanswered questions. Do you RETURN the original bribe if you've been RE-bribed for that position? How about you Rob? In other words, once bribed, do you STAY bribed? Can the RE-bribe be RE-RE-bribed?
Here's a biggie that I just thought of: If you have singers from traditional bars wander in not knowing the score in an Asian bar, they could get fairly ticked. Do you announce the system in some way, like a sign saying "Bribes Gratefully Accepted" or something? I have covered in a Japanese karaoke bar on occasion, but was never offered a bribe, though I was tipped by every singer per song. Maybe because I am geijin...they were ALL Japanese..
Sorry there Joe, I was a little ticked at mikeys comment and how he used a bunch of 
:sqerr::sqconfused:
.
Ok so let me see if I clarify our bribe system a bit...
Let's say we have
Joe
toqer
Mikey
Mikey wants to go next. He gives a $1 and cuts in front of toqer.
Joe
Mikey
toqer
toqer sees mikey jump ahead of him. He gives a $1 to cut in front of mikey
Joe
toqer
Mikey
That's basically how it works. We get folks into bidding wars over positions. Nobody gets their money back on a bribe.... A bribe is a gamble in some ways, you may or may not win it. I usually don't accept anything less than a $5 bribe though.
:sqerr::sqconfused:. Ok so let me see if I clarify our bribe system a bit...
Let's say we have
Joe
toqer
Mikey
Mikey wants to go next. He gives a $1 and cuts in front of toqer.
Joe
Mikey
toqer
toqer sees mikey jump ahead of him. He gives a $1 to cut in front of mikey
Joe
toqer
Mikey
That's basically how it works. We get folks into bidding wars over positions. Nobody gets their money back on a bribe.... A bribe is a gamble in some ways, you may or may not win it. I usually don't accept anything less than a $5 bribe though.
Joe,
You obviously didn't read my post very closely... If you had you'd have realized that the bribe is only affects how many positions you move up not the actual position you obtain.... meaning that if someone else comes a bribes there way up you the original briber might actually be bumped down... that doesn't negate the bribe at all it just means that the previous briber would need to bribe more if he wants to move up more.... go re-read my post and maybe the light will dawn.
In simplest terms if moveing up one spot equals $1 in my example... so if some one slips $5 they move up 5 spots... this doesn't mean they stay there cause if the next guy comes up and bribes $8 he moves up eight from his current slot... this means that he may move ahead of the other guy... I got $20 out of one guy and guess what he was bumped down by the guy below him who came up and gave me $5... you have to remember they are not changing positions in rotation just slots on a playlist. After which rotation rules take over.
I know for hardcore karaoke hosts this is a hard concept to grasp and maybe it's not for you or them... but it does work.
Oh and when someone comes in that doesn't expect this because its an Asian bar they quickly learn and I've noticed that the regulars are more than willing to explain it to them.
There is no need for a sign since people can see the rotation any time they like... do you explain your rotation to your singers before and durring your shows? I highly doubt it... most wouldn't care as long as they get to sing. I've never been to ANY karaoke bar where the host wasted time to explain their rotation to new singers as they arrive. That is a wasted point.
Cool, a pissin' match
I was gettin' bored anywho...
FYI: Drugs are something you get from a pharm. company, and pay lots of money for to get side effects.
Weeds grow by the side of the road, and some are called 'drugs', because the pharm companies can't patent God's work
You may continue with who can piss further...
I was gettin' bored anywho...
FYI: Drugs are something you get from a pharm. company, and pay lots of money for to get side effects.
Weeds grow by the side of the road, and some are called 'drugs', because the pharm companies can't patent God's work
You may continue with who can piss further...
1) No biggie, Toq. Makes ya even on my previous hijack...
2) You're right Rob, I didn't read your post as closely as you should. Got it now....
Toq, ya gotta be pulling some bucks by the end of your night. However, EVERYONE has to be in on it to keep patrons from getting ticked...
No one is saying you go into your next gig and suddenly annouce that you are taking bribes form singers for position in rotation... no no it doesn't work that way at all....
If it's going to work at all you have to take it in steps...
First of all and above all else this has to be approved by the venue, period.
Second your patrons have to be introduced properly to this form of karaoke.
It's all about steps...
Once you have the support of the venue... your singers need to be indoctronated into this method... you could start by charging a per song fee... get them use to paying for their entertainment like they would a video game.
Once they are accustomed to that it's a no brainer to introduce a bribe system if you choose to....
But, no one is sugesting that this is the only way to run a show... you don't have to take bribes for position...
The question was do you? Not do you think it's right to do so.
It's not right or wrong to take money in order to sing sooner.
Will it work in every venue? No
Can it work? Yes
Toqer has proven that.
Argueing about the symantics of how the bribe is appied is ridiculously stupid.
Just remember taking bribes is not wrong or right in every situation... and that the topic was not about right or wrong just about taking or not taking.
Wow, I do not do karaoke, but have dabbled a bit in it. But this thread is quite intense. I waqnt to clarify myself when I said that bribe mis the same a tip. I do believe that many people will "tip" for a job well done or good service. But I also as a previous bartender hacve had regulars some in a "tip" me when they first come in. They say they will be drunk later and might forget.
Is that a tip or a bribe? Symantics, I think or word play. Do they get maybe a step ahead of the guy I have never seen before or the crappy tipper. Human nature says yes. I am in no way saying it is OK to accept Bribes or to be unscrupulous in your business and I applaud those of you who do stand by your moral and do it the right way.
Is that a tip or a bribe? Symantics, I think or word play. Do they get maybe a step ahead of the guy I have never seen before or the crappy tipper. Human nature says yes. I am in no way saying it is OK to accept Bribes or to be unscrupulous in your business and I applaud those of you who do stand by your moral and do it the right way.