Are you green? Do you care?
- Thread starter John P
- Start date
Well, I recycle and I bought a new car that gets 6 more MPG.... other than that, I don't do much else. Oh, I also have a compost bin.
I guess the scientists are all wrong.Tell that to the Polar Bears
Here is a little info on the subject
The scientist are paid off it's a government conspiracy just like the moon landing.
One thing to bear in mind ~ this "going green" stuff is just the latest in a long line of fads. Every time the cost of oil goes up, there's more talk about conservation, the ecology, electric cars etc etc. Then when the price stabilizes, we're back to buying Hummers and big Cadillacs and conservation is forgotten.
It never fails.
The only reason people and businesses are "going green" lately is out of necessity. Factories aren't replacing those big, metal halide fixtures with efficient flourescents because they give a care about the ecology. They're doing it because they get a kickback on their electric rates. They're not installing boiler stack heat capturing systems because they want to. They're doing it because the cost of oil is cutting in to their profits.
Shirl and I have done some energy saving things around here. All the light bulbs were replaced with CFLs last year. We've got an insulating jacket around the water heater. The windows are all Andersen double glazing but Shirl put up plastic sheeting over some of 'em anyway. I wallered around under the house when we moved here and finished up the flooring insulation. Also have ceiling fans in the living room and bedroom.
We have a vent-free propane gas log heater in the living room. Propane is up to $4.00 per gallon now and we don't use it as much as we once did. It comes in really handy when the temps get 'way down there 'cause the heat pump spins the meter off the wall when it has to use the backup electric heat. And when the electric goes out we still have heat.
The old riding mower we had gave up the ghost last year and we just didn't replace it. Our yard is not that large and we can mow it with the little walk-behind mower. It uses a fraction of the gas that the old rider did.
It never fails.
The only reason people and businesses are "going green" lately is out of necessity. Factories aren't replacing those big, metal halide fixtures with efficient flourescents because they give a care about the ecology. They're doing it because they get a kickback on their electric rates. They're not installing boiler stack heat capturing systems because they want to. They're doing it because the cost of oil is cutting in to their profits.
Shirl and I have done some energy saving things around here. All the light bulbs were replaced with CFLs last year. We've got an insulating jacket around the water heater. The windows are all Andersen double glazing but Shirl put up plastic sheeting over some of 'em anyway. I wallered around under the house when we moved here and finished up the flooring insulation. Also have ceiling fans in the living room and bedroom.
We have a vent-free propane gas log heater in the living room. Propane is up to $4.00 per gallon now and we don't use it as much as we once did. It comes in really handy when the temps get 'way down there 'cause the heat pump spins the meter off the wall when it has to use the backup electric heat. And when the electric goes out we still have heat.
The old riding mower we had gave up the ghost last year and we just didn't replace it. Our yard is not that large and we can mow it with the little walk-behind mower. It uses a fraction of the gas that the old rider did.
G
Guest
Guest
I am totally on Cam's side in this.
Global Warming is nothing but a joke dreamed up by the environmentalist tree-huggers to scare us all into believing something horrible is going to happen.
Well, here's a news flash for them: until they can get a 5 day weather forecast right, don't come to me telling me what is going to happen 100 years from now.
Global Warming is nothing but a joke dreamed up by the environmentalist tree-huggers to scare us all into believing something horrible is going to happen.
Well, here's a news flash for them: until they can get a 5 day weather forecast right, don't come to me telling me what is going to happen 100 years from now.
G
Guest
Guest
It's all propaganda.
That supposed 1 billion person watch "Live Earth" show that was put on last year, well, the actually numbers were:
a little over 100,000 TOTAL on site fans at all 7 shows, and just slightly over 3 million TV viewers.
But since the mainstream media so far up the tree-huggers you know whats, they continue to report the 1 billion number as opposed to the real numbers. It helps push their lying agenda.
That supposed 1 billion person watch "Live Earth" show that was put on last year, well, the actually numbers were:
a little over 100,000 TOTAL on site fans at all 7 shows, and just slightly over 3 million TV viewers.
But since the mainstream media so far up the tree-huggers you know whats, they continue to report the 1 billion number as opposed to the real numbers. It helps push their lying agenda.
So all the scientists, environmentalists, government, and mainstream media have conspired to make us believe that the world is getting warmer?
And you find Global Warming far fetched?
And you find Global Warming far fetched?
So where did you get your numbers? I am not saying you are wrong or they are right but there is quite a distance between 3 million and 1 Billion
G
Guest
Guest
Directly from Pollstar, which is pretty much the Bible of the concert industry and tracks every show, no matter if it is a 50 person attended show in the middle of hick town USA or a sell out at Wembley.
G
Guest
Guest
First off, I don't trust a word that comes out of any environmentalist mouth, because just like politicians, they are only going to tell you what you want to believe.
In regards to scientists, don't you think their data is going to be skewed towards the grant giver? MMMM, I think so. So if you are going to throw study after study out as evidence, you have to look at the background of the study and where the money came from. No one is going to endow a study which is going to come out opposite of what they believe in.
And finally, you are actually going to try to convince to believe what the media is reporting is truth? Man, I want some of the stuff you are smoking if you really believe that!!
While I agree that "environmentalists" and activist groups like GreenPeace have been known to sidestep the truth on occasion (that's why they're not taken seriously), there is something to be said for loss of polar ice. Sea levels have risen and polar ice has contracted. Weather patterns are changing more rapidly than at any time since record keeping began.
We can point the finger all we wish. We can blame the Industrial Revolution, we can blame Henry Ford. We can blame the folks in Washington DC. But pointing the finger ain't gonna solve a thing.
There's something we're gonna have to face up to: As long as people keep making babies, the population will continue to increase and the world's resources will be strained even more. How we manage those resources is important. But as long as it's only important once it becomes an inconvenience, we're on the highway to hell.
Our forbears didn't give a care what would happen after they were dead. Now we're paying for it.
We can point the finger all we wish. We can blame the Industrial Revolution, we can blame Henry Ford. We can blame the folks in Washington DC. But pointing the finger ain't gonna solve a thing.
There's something we're gonna have to face up to: As long as people keep making babies, the population will continue to increase and the world's resources will be strained even more. How we manage those resources is important. But as long as it's only important once it becomes an inconvenience, we're on the highway to hell.
Our forbears didn't give a care what would happen after they were dead. Now we're paying for it.
The fact is that the earth has steadily become warmer since 1880. Wow thats a 125+ year weather trend....interesting.
The fact is that for most of the year now you can easily sail in and out of the arctic circle and the North West Passage...Something you couldn't do 20 years ago
The current Bush administration dosen't believe that global warming is problem. They wouldn't though they depend on geenhouse gasses to produce oil and hey are heavily invested. Regardless of that NASA, a government agency, claims that global warming is happening. Guess those scientists arent agreeing with the funding
All in all in our lifetime the chances are you an I will never see the true results so the whole thing is a wasted arguement
The fact is that for most of the year now you can easily sail in and out of the arctic circle and the North West Passage...Something you couldn't do 20 years ago
The current Bush administration dosen't believe that global warming is problem. They wouldn't though they depend on geenhouse gasses to produce oil and hey are heavily invested. Regardless of that NASA, a government agency, claims that global warming is happening. Guess those scientists arent agreeing with the funding
All in all in our lifetime the chances are you an I will never see the true results so the whole thing is a wasted arguement
The biggest problem as Fred has mentioned is the large amounts of babies arriving everyday. We have a general census of how many people live in developed countries, but, the truth is we have no clue what's going on in 3rd World countries and the populations are booming. There's only X amount of real estate available in the world and it's getting crowded.
There is actually lots of land left in the world just the people are in the wrong places...
Canada is the largest country in the world (unless you count the now defunct Soviet union) and we only have 3.3 people per square Km. I believe I read that less than 10% of the land here is used
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/population/population2001/density2001
Canada is the largest country in the world (unless you count the now defunct Soviet union) and we only have 3.3 people per square Km. I believe I read that less than 10% of the land here is used
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/population/population2001/density2001
The world is a much cleaner place today than it was even 30 years ago. It is safe to eat most fish from out rivers here in Pittsburgh. I remember even being about 10 years old Trout were the only fish you could eat from the river. Now you can eat Carp and drums if you want.
You are correct Jeff, but, the problem is Canadians aren't going to be the ones running out of real estate. Australia, has some large open spaces, and there are others that can be developed. The problem is going to be immigration to said places and what's the burden the citizens will have to carry. If one looks at the big picture things are getting quite crowded and unfortunately some people don't like each other.
Once again we go to ethnic problems in Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia, Middle East, etc., it's a sad and harsh reality that instead of sharing what is needed humans fight over the most insignificant things. And unfortunately history and it's blunders repeat themselves. What was happening 78 years ago is happening again today. It may be in a different geographic region, but the principle is the same.
Before living in the US, I spent all my summers since 1981 in Houston, back then fish from Galveston Bay where deemed to contain too many pollutants so they where not good for consumption. Today the story is different and even though pollution does occur it's not as bad.
A lot of efforts have taken place to make things better and pointing the finger is just annoying. I'll give you an example, I always joke about my gas guzzlers, but the reality is my cars are quite efficient and even in city driving they get a respectable mileage and maintenance is not as expensive. Now let's compare with the small 4 cyl. engines that get 40+MPG, yes they are amazing, but (You knew that was coming
) maintenance on the long run is more expensive, (Even with the BS 100,000 mile tune up) why? Because a smaller engine needs more RPM to get moving which leads to more wear and tear on key components (Bearings, rings, seals, guides, timing belts, etc.) which leads to more repair work and more $$$$.If there is one thing I love about my Cobra and Shelby is that I can shift up from 1st to 6th at 2500 RPM without breaking a sweat and get to cruising speed without having to rev the daylight out of the engines. The real gas guzzler, my red Mustang is not a daily driver, but I do enjoy driving it when I can. And after running it on the dyno and actually measuring emissions. It's funny to see it actually runs cleaner than most cars out there
Many wars are fought over real estate. Lately, wars are being fought over what lies beneath said real estate.
While it's true that there is still plenty of elbow room on Mother Earth, people will always need basic necessities and other assorted sundries no matter where they are. At Playtex, we often joke about how our jobs are safe because women will always have periods. And no matter how bad the economy gets, people aren't gonna cut back on the care of their babies.
Yet, all of these things depend upon non-renewable resources to make and deliver. We've got to get out of the use-once-and-throw-away mindset. We've got to get our resources management act together and stick with it. Our elected leaders have been dropping the ball for generations. They're no help.
Maybe the Amish have it right after all.
While it's true that there is still plenty of elbow room on Mother Earth, people will always need basic necessities and other assorted sundries no matter where they are. At Playtex, we often joke about how our jobs are safe because women will always have periods. And no matter how bad the economy gets, people aren't gonna cut back on the care of their babies.
Yet, all of these things depend upon non-renewable resources to make and deliver. We've got to get out of the use-once-and-throw-away mindset. We've got to get our resources management act together and stick with it. Our elected leaders have been dropping the ball for generations. They're no help.
Maybe the Amish have it right after all.
Egad!
Wow, this discussion sure has gone all over the place! When reading page one I was impressed that it hadn't waded into the political realm... and then THIS page happened! Sheesh...
First, I'll say that I've been "green" long before it was cool. I'm codger enough to remember the first "Earth Day" and the green striped ecology flag... remember that? But I never got into the whole hippie-join-hands-and-sing-Kum-by-ya thing. I got into it for purely selfish reasons.
For one thing, fluorescent lights save money. BIG money. And this should bring up another conspiracy, but I'll get to that in a moment. I replaced all of my incandescent bulbs with fluorescent back in the late '70s / early '80s. At the time, there were no true "CFLs." They were the ring style bulbs that had a hub that you could screw into a standard light socket. They'd fit nicely in a table lamp, but wouldn't fit inside the globe of a porch light. So I replaced all that I could -- at 12 bucks a pop (at a time when you could trade in your used incandescent for FREE at Detroit Edison)! -- and saw my electric bill drop by 30%. At least that's what the usage figure on my bill said. The biggest drawback to fluorescent then was that you'd flick on the light switch and there'd be a slight delay before the light came on.
So where's the controversy you ask? Well, that lamp I bought in 1977 for my basement is STILL going strong in my closet. Another, bought around the same time period, lights my hallway. The CFL -- the compact version -- SAYS they'll last for five years. Uh huh. Never had one do that. Three maybe, and only if they're in a place where you don't use 'em much. While we've seen the cost of these things, which were once more expensive than my old ring version, drop considerably, the basic fact is that we replace these things every three or four years at a cost that is 7 - 10 times more expensive than the old incandescent, yet we're not getting 7 - 10 times the LIFE out of them! At least not anymore. If the savings in electricity wasn't so obvious, I wouldn't go to all the trouble. Or I'd just install standard fluorescent tube lighting everywhere.
Another thing I've done since the '80s is bring canvas bags to the grocery store. We had a place called "Pack-N-Save" back then, where if you brought your own bags you'd be credited a nickel for each one, and you packed your own groceries at check-out. In theory, the savings in wages for baggers was passed along to the shoppers. (This turned out to be true -- the prices and selection were great. The hole in the plan was that baggers tended to do other jobs around the store, such as CLEANING. Pack-N-Save turned into a nasty, filthy PIT that nobody wanted to shop in!) So I just got used to toting bags and packing my own groceries. Still do it at Meijer's.
Then there's paper. Every now and then, my wife and I will tackle some project or other that uses paper, either for notes, drawings, doing figures, etc. We used to BUY scratch paper from a local printer who sold it cheap, usually due to an unpaid for order or bad run. But then I got the idea to not let any paper fall into my garbage can unless it has writing on BOTH sides! So we now toss any discarded letters, fliers and other single-sided paper into a scratch paper bin. We've never run out since... or had to BUY it.
We took advantage of a free program offered by Edison one year. They came in and did an electrical usage survey. They found inefficiencies in our hot water heating system. So they installed a thermal insulating blanket around the tank and a water restricting shower head in my bathroom for free! The improvement wasn't dramatic -- about 3% -- but Randy Bartlett would be proud. In combination with everything else we've done, our electric use is fairly Spartan.
Now we go into the zone...
PoliTRICKS has created a pretty messed up situation at a time when we can ill afford it. Lest we forget, we have a rich OIL MAN in the White House. (In fact, two of 'em!) As much as we might see their faces plastered across our TV screens, they don't really live in our world. They don't sweat CFLs, bio-degradable garbage bags or recycling. (Unless they order the servants to do it!) No. They FACILITATED four-dollar-a-gallon gas. And why not? It makes them more wealthy! Follow the money.
Among genuine scientists -- not those on the payroll of oil or their big-business buddies like those on the payroll of Phillip-Morris who said that smoking wasn't harmful -- global warming is a fact. Yes, there are natural contributors such as fluctuating solar activity, yet the statistics don't lie. They're not Republican or Democrat and don't give a rat's azz what Al Gore thinks: the Earth is not only warming (which isn't the issue), but is warming FASTER than at any time in recorded history (which IS the issue). Even if we doubt that human activity could possibly be a contributing factor, it begs the question: does adding to the problem make sense? If nature drops a tree limb, leaves and debris into your pool, does taking a dump in it help?
We must also remember that there are over six and a half BILLION people on this planet. Now, we're in absolutely no danger of overpopulation just yet! Our globe is pretty damn big! Yet in the immortal words of Depeche Mode, "everything counts in large amounts." Hell, most people can't truly wrap their heads around a million of something, let alone a billion! Here's a good example: at the Detroit Science Center there is a big, clear plastic cube. It is roughly 5 by 5 by 5 feet on a pedestal. It is filled with sand. The sign on it says, "How much is a million?" Inside the cube is one million grains of sand. Now imagine something bigger than a grain of sand! A small marble, for instance, would be 20 times larger than said grain. So your 5 X 5 cube would now be 100 feet cubed! That's about the size of the Eiffel Tower replica on the Vegas strip that many of us visited during the conventions! If our little primate brains have trouble fathoming just one million, what hope do we have with billions?
I point this out because these billions of people are all contributing carbon to the atmosphere. If they do nothing; no cooking, driving, electric use and so on, just their breathing alone adds CO2 to the atmosphere. This is why buildings get "stuffy" -- respiration by those inside is outpacing the building's exchange of fresh air. But most of us DO cook. We heat or cool our homes. We drive oil burning cars. And the biggest CO2 dumper of all is the local power company that provides the electricity we're all using to chat in this forum with. Generating energy isn't always evil. It's not WHAT we're doing, but HOW. Hydroelectric power, like the Hoover Dam has been providing for over 60 years now, gives off zero carbon emissions. Wind turbines produce none. Most solar power systems emit none. Nuclear power plants, whether you love 'em or hate 'em, produce only trace CO2. Yet so far all of these technologies provide only a fraction of our total power needs. Most power plants are gas, oil and coal-fired. That means burning. That means CO2.
By our shear numbers, we humans cannot HELP but effect the environment. If you remember pictures of Los Angeles at rush hour, where the smog was go thick you couldn't see more than a couple of miles, then you know what a few million people can do to a single valley in a single state.
So the evidence really does show that global warming is happening, and happening at a rate never before seen by any previous natural means. Reason suggests that humans are, if nothing else, exacerbating the problem.
Again, I ask you to follow the money. Who is against changing our ways? Usually the answer is big oil and their big business buddies -- the vested interests. There is profit to be made, after all! (The oil shortage is a SHAM, by the way. Prices have been artificially manipulated, as the profit-and-loss statements from the "Six Sisters" -- the oil conglomerates -- have shown. Not only is there oil enough for well more than the 60 years we've been told, but there are ways to create oil from any biomass that the oil companies have worked hard to suppress! Look up the Discover magazine article called "Anything Into Oil" and try not to let your jaw hit your lap.)
Scientists on the global warming bandwagon, on the other hand, have no profit motive. Most are from universities and academia. Who is going to pay them to trumpet global warming? Al Gore? Greenpeace? The hydrogen fuel industry? (Oh, wait... there isn't one yet. Nevermind!) Again, we follow the money, and there really isn't any in climate change. Unless you sell emergency shelters for disaster victims. One of the earliest predictions by global warming scientists was that weather would become more extreme. It has, and on a global scale.
Finally, I'd like to add a slightly OT comment to those who think we never landed on the moon: IT HAPPENED. GET OVER IT. If you need proof, it's here... RIGHT here, on Earth!
http://www.myspacemuseum.com/laser article 2.doc
On a regular basis, the McDonald Observatory in Texas, as well as another university in France, bounce a laser beam off of a highly polished, laboratory quality mirror package left on the moon by the Apollo 11 mission. This is how scientists can measure the distance between the Earth and moon to within a fraction of a centimeter! If there was no mirror, it wouldn't work. Period.
This, along with the tens of thousands of photos taken, the several hundred pounds of rocks and soil returned, the telemetry received by other countries at the time, many of whom were not so friendly to the U.S. AND the eyewitness accounts of the astronauts who actually walked on the moon and are alive today are conclusive. Arguments about shadows, missing stars and such have all been debunked. (And anyone with a little knowledge of photography wasn't fooled for a minute.)
This is yet another example of poliTRICKS: taking one of our proudest moments as a nation and casting it into doubt because it -- gasp! -- cost the taxpayers MONEY! Egad! And in the end, all of this stuff is about money.
And that is my rant for today! Don't forget to tune in next week when I'll be discussing mixed marriages between men and women. Until then, we now return you to your regular chat forum and thank you for tuning in.
Wow, this discussion sure has gone all over the place! When reading page one I was impressed that it hadn't waded into the political realm... and then THIS page happened! Sheesh...
First, I'll say that I've been "green" long before it was cool. I'm codger enough to remember the first "Earth Day" and the green striped ecology flag... remember that? But I never got into the whole hippie-join-hands-and-sing-Kum-by-ya thing. I got into it for purely selfish reasons.
For one thing, fluorescent lights save money. BIG money. And this should bring up another conspiracy, but I'll get to that in a moment. I replaced all of my incandescent bulbs with fluorescent back in the late '70s / early '80s. At the time, there were no true "CFLs." They were the ring style bulbs that had a hub that you could screw into a standard light socket. They'd fit nicely in a table lamp, but wouldn't fit inside the globe of a porch light. So I replaced all that I could -- at 12 bucks a pop (at a time when you could trade in your used incandescent for FREE at Detroit Edison)! -- and saw my electric bill drop by 30%. At least that's what the usage figure on my bill said. The biggest drawback to fluorescent then was that you'd flick on the light switch and there'd be a slight delay before the light came on.
So where's the controversy you ask? Well, that lamp I bought in 1977 for my basement is STILL going strong in my closet. Another, bought around the same time period, lights my hallway. The CFL -- the compact version -- SAYS they'll last for five years. Uh huh. Never had one do that. Three maybe, and only if they're in a place where you don't use 'em much. While we've seen the cost of these things, which were once more expensive than my old ring version, drop considerably, the basic fact is that we replace these things every three or four years at a cost that is 7 - 10 times more expensive than the old incandescent, yet we're not getting 7 - 10 times the LIFE out of them! At least not anymore. If the savings in electricity wasn't so obvious, I wouldn't go to all the trouble. Or I'd just install standard fluorescent tube lighting everywhere.
Another thing I've done since the '80s is bring canvas bags to the grocery store. We had a place called "Pack-N-Save" back then, where if you brought your own bags you'd be credited a nickel for each one, and you packed your own groceries at check-out. In theory, the savings in wages for baggers was passed along to the shoppers. (This turned out to be true -- the prices and selection were great. The hole in the plan was that baggers tended to do other jobs around the store, such as CLEANING. Pack-N-Save turned into a nasty, filthy PIT that nobody wanted to shop in!) So I just got used to toting bags and packing my own groceries. Still do it at Meijer's.
Then there's paper. Every now and then, my wife and I will tackle some project or other that uses paper, either for notes, drawings, doing figures, etc. We used to BUY scratch paper from a local printer who sold it cheap, usually due to an unpaid for order or bad run. But then I got the idea to not let any paper fall into my garbage can unless it has writing on BOTH sides! So we now toss any discarded letters, fliers and other single-sided paper into a scratch paper bin. We've never run out since... or had to BUY it.
We took advantage of a free program offered by Edison one year. They came in and did an electrical usage survey. They found inefficiencies in our hot water heating system. So they installed a thermal insulating blanket around the tank and a water restricting shower head in my bathroom for free! The improvement wasn't dramatic -- about 3% -- but Randy Bartlett would be proud. In combination with everything else we've done, our electric use is fairly Spartan.
Now we go into the zone...
PoliTRICKS has created a pretty messed up situation at a time when we can ill afford it. Lest we forget, we have a rich OIL MAN in the White House. (In fact, two of 'em!) As much as we might see their faces plastered across our TV screens, they don't really live in our world. They don't sweat CFLs, bio-degradable garbage bags or recycling. (Unless they order the servants to do it!) No. They FACILITATED four-dollar-a-gallon gas. And why not? It makes them more wealthy! Follow the money.
Among genuine scientists -- not those on the payroll of oil or their big-business buddies like those on the payroll of Phillip-Morris who said that smoking wasn't harmful -- global warming is a fact. Yes, there are natural contributors such as fluctuating solar activity, yet the statistics don't lie. They're not Republican or Democrat and don't give a rat's azz what Al Gore thinks: the Earth is not only warming (which isn't the issue), but is warming FASTER than at any time in recorded history (which IS the issue). Even if we doubt that human activity could possibly be a contributing factor, it begs the question: does adding to the problem make sense? If nature drops a tree limb, leaves and debris into your pool, does taking a dump in it help?
We must also remember that there are over six and a half BILLION people on this planet. Now, we're in absolutely no danger of overpopulation just yet! Our globe is pretty damn big! Yet in the immortal words of Depeche Mode, "everything counts in large amounts." Hell, most people can't truly wrap their heads around a million of something, let alone a billion! Here's a good example: at the Detroit Science Center there is a big, clear plastic cube. It is roughly 5 by 5 by 5 feet on a pedestal. It is filled with sand. The sign on it says, "How much is a million?" Inside the cube is one million grains of sand. Now imagine something bigger than a grain of sand! A small marble, for instance, would be 20 times larger than said grain. So your 5 X 5 cube would now be 100 feet cubed! That's about the size of the Eiffel Tower replica on the Vegas strip that many of us visited during the conventions! If our little primate brains have trouble fathoming just one million, what hope do we have with billions?
I point this out because these billions of people are all contributing carbon to the atmosphere. If they do nothing; no cooking, driving, electric use and so on, just their breathing alone adds CO2 to the atmosphere. This is why buildings get "stuffy" -- respiration by those inside is outpacing the building's exchange of fresh air. But most of us DO cook. We heat or cool our homes. We drive oil burning cars. And the biggest CO2 dumper of all is the local power company that provides the electricity we're all using to chat in this forum with. Generating energy isn't always evil. It's not WHAT we're doing, but HOW. Hydroelectric power, like the Hoover Dam has been providing for over 60 years now, gives off zero carbon emissions. Wind turbines produce none. Most solar power systems emit none. Nuclear power plants, whether you love 'em or hate 'em, produce only trace CO2. Yet so far all of these technologies provide only a fraction of our total power needs. Most power plants are gas, oil and coal-fired. That means burning. That means CO2.
By our shear numbers, we humans cannot HELP but effect the environment. If you remember pictures of Los Angeles at rush hour, where the smog was go thick you couldn't see more than a couple of miles, then you know what a few million people can do to a single valley in a single state.
So the evidence really does show that global warming is happening, and happening at a rate never before seen by any previous natural means. Reason suggests that humans are, if nothing else, exacerbating the problem.
Again, I ask you to follow the money. Who is against changing our ways? Usually the answer is big oil and their big business buddies -- the vested interests. There is profit to be made, after all! (The oil shortage is a SHAM, by the way. Prices have been artificially manipulated, as the profit-and-loss statements from the "Six Sisters" -- the oil conglomerates -- have shown. Not only is there oil enough for well more than the 60 years we've been told, but there are ways to create oil from any biomass that the oil companies have worked hard to suppress! Look up the Discover magazine article called "Anything Into Oil" and try not to let your jaw hit your lap.)
Scientists on the global warming bandwagon, on the other hand, have no profit motive. Most are from universities and academia. Who is going to pay them to trumpet global warming? Al Gore? Greenpeace? The hydrogen fuel industry? (Oh, wait... there isn't one yet. Nevermind!) Again, we follow the money, and there really isn't any in climate change. Unless you sell emergency shelters for disaster victims. One of the earliest predictions by global warming scientists was that weather would become more extreme. It has, and on a global scale.
Finally, I'd like to add a slightly OT comment to those who think we never landed on the moon: IT HAPPENED. GET OVER IT. If you need proof, it's here... RIGHT here, on Earth!
http://www.myspacemuseum.com/laser article 2.doc
On a regular basis, the McDonald Observatory in Texas, as well as another university in France, bounce a laser beam off of a highly polished, laboratory quality mirror package left on the moon by the Apollo 11 mission. This is how scientists can measure the distance between the Earth and moon to within a fraction of a centimeter! If there was no mirror, it wouldn't work. Period.
This, along with the tens of thousands of photos taken, the several hundred pounds of rocks and soil returned, the telemetry received by other countries at the time, many of whom were not so friendly to the U.S. AND the eyewitness accounts of the astronauts who actually walked on the moon and are alive today are conclusive. Arguments about shadows, missing stars and such have all been debunked. (And anyone with a little knowledge of photography wasn't fooled for a minute.)
This is yet another example of poliTRICKS: taking one of our proudest moments as a nation and casting it into doubt because it -- gasp! -- cost the taxpayers MONEY! Egad! And in the end, all of this stuff is about money.
And that is my rant for today! Don't forget to tune in next week when I'll be discussing mixed marriages between men and women. Until then, we now return you to your regular chat forum and thank you for tuning in.