Adjusting Bi or Tri Amped Systems

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Sounds To Go said:
LOL... Nothing you said there invalidated anything in my line that you quoted. You merely mentioned (wisely) that the issue can be resolved through knowledgeable and thoughtful use of the components in your system without sacrificing your low-end overall.:tricool:
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With all due respect: You wrote:
"Only way I could see this request being a mood/event killer is if you were running a bi or tri amped system and had to roll back on the subs or cut them completely with nothing else to pick up the slack."
Answers!
It is not the only way, unless the operator does not know how to work his system.
It is more likely to happen with passive crossovers in passive or active cabinets.

Why would you want to cut them completely?
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, IMHO...

The more complicated you make a system, the easier it is to break, and more effort is required to do a simple job, and keep the system maintained.


It's a DJ gig -- yer not doing sound for the TransSiberian Blueman Pipeline Group... Use the KISS principle ;)
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Should we then all go back to vinyl? Should record producers and engineers not use the new mixing boards? Better yet, should Rockit just have one skin and a play button? :triwink:
 
I can run single amp, bi-amp or tri-amp as needed. Rob, you need to play with the system to see what affects what, killing the subs destroys the sound. In a two or three way system you need to be sure the system works well together and not one component runs away from the others, excessive bass, excessive treble, not enough bass, not enough mids, etc. They all need to work together. You take any part out of the working equation and you're up chit creek.
 
ahoustondj said:
Should we then all go back to vinyl?
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Given it sounds a heck of a lot better -- why not?


ahoustondj said:
Should record producers and engineers not use the new mixing boards?
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Most of the good producers, use older equipment that's simple, and sounds good. Been to any of the Woodstock studios lately...? Most recordings are still done simple and clean, and the playback should mimic the recording :)


ahoustondj said:
Better yet, should Rockit just have one skin and a play button? :triwink:
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It would certainly make my life easier... :sqbiggrin:

V6 is going back to more of a V3 feel -- simpler to use, with less tax on resources -- I've joined the tea party :D
 
Sounds To Go said:
P.S. ~ Thanks for splitting off the thread... good discussion to be had here. My wish-list for the new year includes stepping it up with at least a biamped system.

But for right now - with the exception of an occasional single-18" for certain events, I am planted squarely in the middle of "Houston's Hall of Shame." :trisad:
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Having a small system or large system does not really matter. What matters is the correct system for the task. Someone adding a bunch of speakers just to be able to cover a large area should not be the answer. A larger system then would be more appropriate. You can always tone down a large system but it is not feasible to do the reverse with a small system.
I have a tri amped system in my living room and don't get complaints from the neighbors in the condos on either side of me.
Sounds to go, its all good my friend. Like I have stated many times before, I like to be different and yes it is noticed even by other DJs.
 
DJ SVO said:
I can run single amp, bi-amp or tri-amp as needed. Rob, you need to play with the system to see what affects what, killing the subs destroys the sound. In a two or three way system you need to be sure the system works well together and not one component runs away from the others, excessive bass, excessive treble, not enough bass, not enough mids, etc. They all need to work together. You take any part out of the working equation and you're up chit creek.
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I completely and utterly agree with everything you just said....

What I'm trying to point out is in a system that employs some sort of adjustable crossover system the values of the output and frequency range are better controlled which ergo gives a better balanced sound.... so rather than cutting frequencies out... they can be managed.

Now of course this is not all the job of a crossover.... other pieces come into play such as the Source, EQ and other outboard processing one might employ.

Take a 3-band EQ vs a 31-band EQ... which one is going to be better suited for tailoring the low end.... or the full spectrum of frequencies for that matter?
 
jokerswild said:
Ok the question is this and is the subject of this discussion:

If you were asked to reduce your low end, how would you do this while maintaining a balanced sound?
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I would just unplug a couple of my sub boxes!:tribiggrin::tribiggrin::triwink:
 
jokerswild said:
Take a 3-band EQ vs a 31-band EQ... which one is going to be better suited for tailoring your low end.... or you full spectrum of frequencies for that matter?
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Rob,
Be careful who you ask! :yoOMG: Some don't use either one! They won't know! LOLOL:yofart:
 
The key is control of the system. The 31 band EQ will let you attack your problems in a more precise way than the old Hi, Mid, Lo knob on the board. And remember when you get the DRPA+ get the RTA MIC for it ;)
 
DJ SVO said:
The key is control of the system. The 31 band EQ will let you attack your problems in a more precise way than the old Hi, Mid, Lo knob on the board. And remember when you get the DRPA+ get the RTA MIC for it ;)
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Actually I'm getting the DRPA the original version... and yes with the RTA mic... actually I already have an RTA mic leftover from the Behringer DEQ-2496 I use to have.... so I will have a DBX one and a Behringer RTA mic....

Anywho.... that's a whole 'nother discussion..... what I hope we can address is those spur of the moment changes that are brought on either by environment (ie room accoustics) and/or human caused (hey dude can ya turn the bass down we're tryin to sleep here...). :tricool:
 
Damn, the new amp I ordered only has a volume control and a selector knob -- what am I to do...? :sqerr:


Oooh, ooh, pick me, I know the answer!

I'll play an MP3, and process the sh_t out of it, before it gets to the tubes... :sqrolleyes: :sqlaugh:



I'm sorry, but does anyone else see how ludicrous that is? Yer playing an MP3, and worrying about crossover points, 31 band EQs, blah, blah, compression, blah, echo, reverb, blah...

Just turn the volume down or up :)
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Just turn the volume down or up :)
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Hmmm, that just might work..... lets see.... if I turn this thingy down... the the whosiwhatsit to the right... and the thingamabob over there... that should just about do....

Hey who turned out the lights?
 
jokerswild said:
Hmmm, that just might work..... lets see.... if I turn this thingy down... the the whosiwhatsit to the right... and the thingamabob over there... that should just about do....

Hey who turned out the lights?
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Sorta funny, but back in the 80's, I decided I needed every piece of processing gear made (like you and Canute). Spent loads of money, and ended up having a Val sized rig to carry :sqerr:

Sounded real good in my house :)

I was on a boat most of the 90's playing Jimmy -- didn't matter what it sounded like, as long as it was Jimmy, and the chicks were digging it.


Then came MP3s. For all intents and purposes, they sound even worse than CDs do (that's hard to imagine IMHO) :sqerr:



So, you have a crummy source, and yer trying to improve the output by using tons of processing gear. Why not just use good source?


Because you want to lighten your load in and out, improve search speed, etc. Your clients can't tell the difference, because they're 3 sheets into the wind. So now, you want to go back to audiophile sound, while still using crappy source.


You are on crack :)
 
Since this thread is bassed off of Kirby's hotel thread I think it needs a little more definition.

It appears that Kirby's case was much the same as mine where the party walked out and demanded a full refund of their money (mine not Kirby's)!

Sub frequencies are sub frequencies, putting them into a two way system or turning them down isn't going to make much difference to the complainers (they are listening for them so they can complain). The simple fact is sub frequencies carry, the only way to eliminate that factor is to eliminate the long frequencies there are two ways to do that cut everything below 100 hertz or (sorry I just can't resist Ryan "use a Bose system":tribiggrin: just kidding) drop the level on the subs until it is basically inperceptable. Either way it is going to destroy the natural sound of the tracks you are playing.

A third way is to simply drop the volume of the whole system until the complainers don't have anything to complain about, but then you are at risk of losing the client that is paying you.

If I am working for a client at a venue where I do not have a vested interest the client always rules and the venue manager has to go to the client who then instructs me to turn it down to a level he or she is happy with.
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Sorta funny, but back in the 80's, I decided I needed every piece of processing gear made (like you and Canute). Spent loads of money, and ended up having a Val sized rig to carry :sqerr: Then yer get Val sized money!

Sounded real good in my house :)

I was on a boat most of the 90's playing Jimmy -- didn't matter what it sounded like, as long as it was Jimmy, and the chicks were digging it.


Then came MP3s. For all intents and purposes, they sound even worse than CDs do (that's hard to imagine IMHO) :sqerr:



So, you have a crummy source, and yer trying to improve the output by using tons of processing gear. Why not just use good source?


Because you want to lighten your load in and out, improve search speed, etc. Your clients can't tell the difference, because they're 3 sheets into the wind. So now, you want to go back to audiophile sound, while still using crappy source.


You are on crack :)
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See the answer up thar in Red! It works!
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Damn, the new amp I ordered only has a volume control and a selector knob -- what am I to do...? :sqerr: Get some Duct tape and cover it! :tribiggrin:


Oooh, ooh, pick me, I know the answer!

I'll play an MP3, and process the sh_t out of it, before it gets to the tubes... :sqrolleyes: :sqlaugh: That is why processing is needed. No two Vinyl or Cds or MP3s are alike so you have to be able to tailor them to the envoirnment based on the average output for that room.



I'm sorry, but does anyone else see how ludicrous that is? Yer playing an MP3, and worrying about crossover points, 31 band EQs, blah, blah, compression, blah, echo, reverb, blah... No I don't! They used to all wear black colored clothing in the Communist Countries! :triwink: Yer Commie you! LMAO!

Just turn the volume down or up :)In todays age us DJs call it the "Gain" not volume!
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LOLOL! Luv yer man!:triwink:
 
We typically use the eq on the board for slight adjustments....if we need to take out more, we might use the stereo 31 band eq to suck a little out, and if we need to remove a lot of bass (sad), we'll drop the gain on the sub out on the 4 way active stereo crossover.

Sending more to mid bass drivers would only stress the system, not reduce the bass. We can pull the chest kicking bass (that 40hz that makes your head rattle) to keep the lights in the ceiling and pictures on the walls and few....no, very few....will be the wiser.
 
Valerie Hicks said:
We typically use the eq on the board for slight adjustments....if we need to take out more, we might use the stereo 31 band eq to suck a little out, and if we need to remove a lot of bass (sad), we'll drop the gain on the sub out on the 4 way active stereo crossover.

Sending more to mid bass drivers would only stress the system, not reduce the bass. We can pull the chest kicking bass (that 40hz that makes your head rattle) to keep the lights in the ceiling and pictures on the walls and few....no, very few....will be the wiser.
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Val,

The Chest thumping bass is in the 75 to 90 hertz range which is the resonance frequency for the human chest cavity, but I understand what you are saying about dropping the rumble in the 40 hertz range.
 
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