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djrox said:
I've done that, repeatedly, in many discussions and now I state the honest way I "feel" you are wrong...and arousing pity, especially through vulnerability or sadness is how I feel.
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I don't believe we have ever discussed the second wave which inevitably will come because of twits like this

globalnews.ca

‘Be caring’: Doctor makes emotional plea after Toronto park crowded amid COVID-19 | Globalnews.ca

In a video posted to Twitter Saturday, Abdu Sharkawy a Toronto-area infectious diseases specialist, urged Canadians to be mindful of coronavirus safety rules, saying 'everyone is in this together.'
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca

And ironically enough just as the curve was flattening they reopen things this happens Whoodathunkit

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Ontario records another spike in new COVID-19 cases

Ontario health officials have reported another spike in the number of new COVID-19 cases.
toronto.ctvnews.ca

Kind of exactly what they told us would happen....but the church going, nail doing, haircut needing crowd knows better

www.vox.com

4 reasons state plans to open up may backfire — and soon

States are opening up their economies. Scientists fear this isn’t going to end well.
www.vox.com www.vox.com

Epidemiologists’ predictions for what will happen next are grim. “If we open up, and do exactly what we were doing in March, we’re going to see a huge increase in cases,” Eleanor Murray, an assistant professor of epidemiology at the Boston University School of Public Health, says. “We’ll go back to that same exponential trajectory.”
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I don't want a second closure any more than you do but it's inevitable if you don't let the first one work
 
Let's look at some numbers ...

The US has had 1.67M cases that must have been deemed serious enough to test .. out of 330.8M citizens .. so a real CV19 case/population of 0.5%.

Of that 0.5%, 17K are currently in serious or critical condition .. making that possibility 0.005% at this point in time.

So should we be giving up the ability to do things normally when 99.995% of folks are NOT feeling the pain?

Just a question, since what we sheepishly do today makes it that much easier to be forced to continue to do it at someone's whim in the future.
 
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steve149 said:
Let's look at some numbers ...

The US has had 1.67M cases that must have been deemed serious enough to test .. out of 330.8M citizens .. so a real CV19 case/population of 0.5%.

Of that 0.5%, 17K are currently in serious or critical condition .. making that possibility 0.005% at this point in time.

So should we be giving up the ability to do things normally when 99.995% of folks are NOT feeling the pain?

Just a question, since what we sheepishly do today makes it that much easier to be forced to continue to do it at someone's whim in the future.
Click to expand...
Steve,

You are wasting your keystrokes.

The debate is open for discussion, for the cowering liberals and the lockdown to eliminate human rights crowd. The believes only other in the eliminate human rights crowd so they quote fake, refuted, invalidated information.

Some people are compelled to learn in the most self defeating way(s).
 
steve149 said:
Let's look at some numbers ...

The US has had 1.67M cases that must have been deemed serious enough to test .. out of 330.8M citizens .. so a real CV19 case/population of 0.5%.

Of that 0.5%, 17K are currently in serious or critical condition .. making that possibility 0.005% at this point in time.

So should we be giving up the ability to do things normally when 99.995% of folks are NOT feeling the pain?

Just a question, since what we sheepishly do today makes it that much easier to be forced to continue to do it at someone's whim in the future.
Click to expand...

How many cases would there been if there had not been a lockdown? If they had left close contact at concerts, sporting events, and other mass gatherings the numbers would have been MUCH higher. As it was some places had a great strain on the health care system imagine if that had doubled...Just doubled. Now imagine if it was 10X...25X...

You want numbers? Look at the numbers for the places that are reopening full scale those numbers are going up.

I don't want to see things shutdown either hell I'm losing money hand over fist because of it but I would rather lose it now than have to do the same thing again in 3 months time when the next shutdown happens. The second wave of the Spanish flu was worse than the first and happened pretty much the same way this is happening. If you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it I guess

djrox said:
Steve,

You are wasting your keystrokes.

The debate is open for discussion, for the cowering liberals and the lockdown to eliminate human rights crowd. The believes only other in the eliminate human rights crowd so they quote fake, refuted, invalidated information.

Some people are compelled to learn in the most self defeating way(s).
Click to expand...

For Gods sake someone give Rocky a haircut and do his nails so he;ll stop whining
 
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Jeff Romard said:
How many cases would there been if there had not been a lockdown? If they had left close contact at concerts, sporting events, and other mass gatherings the numbers would have been MUCH higher. As it was some places had a great strain on the health care system imagine if that had doubled...Just doubled. Now imagine if it was 10X...25X...

You want numbers? Look at the numbers for the places that are reopening full scale those numbers are going up.

I don't want to see things shutdown either hell I'm losing money hand over fist because of it but I would rather lose it now than have to do the same thing again in 3 months time when the next shutdown happens. The second wave of the Spanish flu was worse than the first and happened pretty much the same way this is happening. If you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it I guess



For Gods sake someone give Rocky a haircut and do his nails so he;ll stop whining
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People being forced to stay at home surely helped .. but at what cost? I went to a local discount store to get snacks (I go out .. I buy snacks) .. 3 businesses in that local plaza (and there were only a dozen left) closed over the past 2 months. That's income lost, rent lost, and unemployment costs to us .. mainly out of "fear" of what "might" happen.

So MAYBE the case numbers would have been higher .. but not sure deaths would have matched it since the vulnerable were taken early. And the distancing part I can sort of accept and that (along with not being there) probably helped the most. Not really sure masks did much of anything. And people should have been washing their hands anyway.

And I'm not Spanish, so I'm good there ... :)
 
Jeff Romard said:
How many cases would there been if there had not been a lockdown?
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The cases would not be substantially different because you're panic porn not only preludes any shutdown - it further presupposes no awareness of the threat. Properly informed populations are far better at taking care of themselves than any government order ever created. Chaos and panic on the other hand, are the trade tools of power seekers.

The projections we received were calculated for lock-down conditions and the actual reported numbers to date are just 5% of those projections. There is no confidence in the information we have. Officials and agencies at every level and department have been revealed as too unreliable a measure of anything. There is too much fraud at every level.

We know that despite an acute awareness of who was most vulnerable our government and health care systems largely abandoned the elderly population in nursing homes and veteran's facilities. They left them to die, Jeff. This is the story you're not paying any attention too. Perhaps in several years when the media runs out sensational headlines and starts looking for real stories of humanity something will be said. Until then, know that these are the leaders who's instructions you would choose to follow.

We know now that the average age of mortality is upward of 80. We know that healthy people recover. We know that 100% testing is a joke - because if I test negative tomorrow, are you going to keep testing me every day? There is no acceptable excuse for this lock down, not under U.S. law.

The only historical records of quarantine for healthy people are those followed up with murder and Genocide. When you line up for your planet saving vaccine shot, perhaps an old familiar phrase will echo in your mind: "..this is the line for the showers!"

Had we not all been locked down for two months perhaps we would have been witness to the crimes committed under the cover of panic. Never fails. People are all too eager to assist with their own demise - it's only necessary to disarm them with the benefit of doubt.
 
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The reality is simple. Consumer's are not interested in paying for experiences they do not enjoy. Rushing to re-open a restaurant under these "new normal" conditions is a fool's errand. After the initial rush of people who tire of being cooped up - the reality of how unpleasant this experience will take over. You would have to be the most atrocious home cook on the planet, or one truly lazy mother f- - - to enjoy dining in these conditions.

If you're hosting a socially distant wedding reception in Ohio - don't send me an invitation. I'll mail you a gift and visit you when your good sense returns.
 
Things changed because of the shutdown. I know WE’RE gonna eat out less. We’ll continue to do takeout. We’ve found it’s just not necessary to get all dressed up, when we can pick up the food just barely dressed, and take it home and eat comfortably. Sure, there’s a little cleanup involved, but we’ve gotten used to it.

I think gyms are gonna find it difficult to rebound. A lot of people figured out they could get good workouts at home, and many bought home systems if the needed something more.

A lot of people lost money. Some lost businesses. Many spent their savings. It’s gonna be a while before retail shopping picks up after the shutdown ends. The outlet mall near me is doing business, but it helps that it’s not enclosed... walkways are all open-air. The enclosed malls are not doing well at all.

Travel is going to take a while to recover, so tourism and hospitality is going to lag behind for some time. I think Florida will do OK, but other places will not likely come back for a while. Summer vacations? Do you really need one after not working for two months?

Hair and nail salons should be OK if they weathered the lockdown.

Our industry will come back pretty quickly when venues finally open up for big gatherings. There’s a pent up demand for weddings, so wedding DJ’s should do well.

The economy can come back, but it’s not gonna snap right back like it would have if we had opened back up on May 1. That extra month did A LOT of permanent damage. There are things that could change for the better, but there are other changes that will definitely cause issues.
 
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Jeff Romard said:
How many cases would there been if there had not been a lockdown? If they had left close contact at concerts, sporting events, and other mass gatherings the numbers would have been MUCH higher. As it was some places had a great strain on the health care system imagine if that had doubled...Just doubled. Now imagine if it was 10X...25X...

You want numbers? Look at the numbers for the places that are reopening full scale those numbers are going up.

I don't want to see things shutdown either hell I'm losing money hand over fist because of it but I would rather lose it now than have to do the same thing again in 3 months time when the next shutdown happens. The second wave of the Spanish flu was worse than the first and happened pretty much the same way this is happening. If you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it I guess
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For Gods sake someone get Jeff an independent thought and news that isn't a narratve so he'll stop his Pavlovian cowering.
 
Proformance said:
...aren't you just a drop of golden sunshine.
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djrox said:
For Gods sake someone get Jeff an independent thought and news that isn't a narratve so he'll stop his Pavlovian cowering.
Click to expand...

Don't let the facts get in the way lads...And don't whine when the numbers jump and someone is taking away your "rights" again
 
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steve149 said:
Let's look at some numbers ...

The US has had 1.67M cases that must have been deemed serious enough to test .. out of 330.8M citizens .. so a real CV19 case/population of 0.5%.

Of that 0.5%, 17K are currently in serious or critical condition .. making that possibility 0.005% at this point in time.

So should we be giving up the ability to do things normally when 99.995% of folks are NOT feeling the pain?

Just a question, since what we sheepishly do today makes it that much easier to be forced to continue to do it at someone's whim in the future.
Click to expand...
You're not allowing for those that had it and were not counted / couldn't be tested.
 
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ittigger said:
You're not allowing for those that had it and were not counted / couldn't be tested.
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If someone had bad enough symptoms, they most likely would have been tested. If their symptoms weren't bad enough, then they wouldn't fall in the relatively small number that fall in the serious/critical numbers. I fully suspect that 5M or more had CV19 .. just wasn't bad enough to tear apart the economy .. IMO.
 
steve149 said:
If someone had bad enough symptoms, they most likely would have been tested. If their symptoms weren't bad enough, then they wouldn't fall in the relatively small number that fall in the serious/critical numbers. I fully suspect that 5M or more had CV19 .. just wasn't bad enough to tear apart the economy .. IMO.
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That would be a negative ghost rider.. I know people that had all the symptoms (and it was bad) - and were never tested. The response: 'Stay home and isolated. If you can't breathe, then we'll come and get you'.
 
ittigger said:
That would be a negative ghost rider.. I know people that had all the symptoms (and it was bad) - and were never tested. The response: Stay home and isolated.
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Not disagreeing, but if their symptoms fell into the realm of serious/critical condition, my guess is they would have been brought to the hospital and would have been tested. If their symptoms didn't clear that threshold, then they still fall into the 99.995% that aren't serious.
 
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If that threshold is/was 'when you can't breath, call us' .. then no numbers are anywhere near accurate.
 
ittigger said:
If that threshold is/was 'when you can't breath, call us' .. then no numbers are anywhere near accurate.
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Again, if someone was in bad shape, they WOULD HAVE been tested since they would have been admitted. If they weren't THAT bad, then they're like several million each year in battling the flu ... just saying ..
 
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