Karaoke Equipment???

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DJ Cam

New DJ
Oct 20, 2006
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Pittsburgh, PA
www.djcamonline.com
Third time is a charm. I will try this again without confusing anyone, being off topic, including myself, or trying to start an argument.


I want to know why the majority of karaoke host use inexpensive equipment?

There are many host that do a decent job with what they own. I understand that. I'm not saying anyone is doing a bad job.

I want to know. Why when one attends a karaoke show and you look at what the host is using you generally see lesser brands of equipment or lower end models?
 
Third time is a charm. I will try this again without confusing anyone, being off topic, including myself, or trying to start an argument.


I want to know why the majority of karaoke host use inexpensive equipment?

There are many host that do a decent job with what they own. I understand that. I'm not saying anyone is doing a bad job.

I want to know. Why when one attends a karaoke show and you look at what the host is using you generally see lesser brands of equipment or lower end models?

In a nutshell and not to box anyone in but, cost vs return. I'll admit that my gear is entry level but, my sound is outstanding even compaired to some of the more seasoned hosts... I know this because I visit as many as I can... however I'm not in the bar scene on a regular basis mostly because the money isn't there what with pirating so ramped... I stand to make much more money in the private parties and wedding markets...

I did initially get into this because I hate the way most KJ's in my area run their shows and thought I can do better. Maybe that's true but the gigs just aren't there at the price I want to make.

I am in the process of upgrading my system and as of right now a new lighter amp is what is on my dockette... or I may go powered speakers instead just haven't made up my mind yet.

The only entry level stuff I still haven't replaced are my speakers and amp. I'll keep them once I do simply as a backup system as I see nothing wrong with them, they sound wonderful IMHO. IMO I don't think cost of the equipment = quality. It's how you use it that makes the difference.
 
Is my equipment cheap? I saw that post you did on what you just spent, for my little venue that would be overkill...

Our speakers are all self powered EMU PS5 precision monitors with a self powered PS12 subwoofer with all signals fed through XLR cables. We have 6 of the monitors spread around our 30x20 room with a nice bassy sub hidden behind the main TV on stage.

We have over 18 LED par cans spread around the room for ambient lighting.

Our mics are Shure T-288's (ok, KJ mic is a cheap wired POS, but who cares about that)

The only thing we don't have is a real physical mixer. Our mixing is done via a software DAW called reaper, and controlled by a midi controller. I wrote an article about it here somewhere. The PC is a top notch dual core Pentium 4.

I don't consider my setup to be very expensive, but at the same time it's not top notch like yours is. The funny thing is, compared to all the other venues around here in San Jose, our setup is top notch. Nothing else compares to it. Nothing even comes close to it.

So you're right. The majority of karaoke venues suck ass when it comes to their equipment. Hisonic mics and a PC. Maybe some cheesy speakers that look like they were ripped out of the backseat of someones riced out honda accord.

I think what JW was saying about piracy fits into this. These folks only care about getting away with the bare minimum of costs, to the point of stealing karaoke. If they're not willing to pay for karaoke, they probably don't think paying for good equipment is of any consequence either. They just play that "I have 150,000 songs!" dick measuring contest that really has no bearing on how well a show is run, or how good the sound is.

I don't really care though... I'm not playing keeping up with the joneses here. I just plug away doing whatever I think is cool, sounds good, and makes people happy. What makes me happy just happens to be better than everyone else.
 
I sorta agree with what has been said, but I think that it might be two different things.....

One - A Karaoke bar that has gear

Two - A KJ who goes into a bar or even a private with gear.

I think the reason that most KJ's we see out there have not as high end gear is because of the cost. They are doing it part time (mostly) and just kinda buy what they need. It may be also that they do not know any better and when they do a search on the internet. Voco.... um some company comes up more and that's what they think they should buy.

unless they are "into" gear, they wont know what's out there and available.

And they feel, why should they, if their $99.00 speakers get the job done, why should they buy more?

They are just there to make a few bucks and have some fun... IMHO
 
Karaoke is a sideline of ours at best, we do about 6 to 8 private parties a year, no bar gigs. I took my good equipment out the first time we ever did a Karaoke Party, and that was the last time as well. Drunk people + Good equipment = broken/abused Good equipment in my book (Or has been my experience anyway). In these parts at least, Karaoke hosts don't rake in a ton of cash at bar gigs, or private gigs for that matter. I'm not putting a $500 mic in the hands of a drunk singer holding a beer over one of my $500 stage monitors. One slip up and viola!... When we do Karaoke we take one of our backup rigs and they often do get knocked around. Rather have to replace a $100 mic than a $500 one... tiz my two cents on the logic behind that.
 
BigDon:

My experience with Mics is you shouldn't go too cheap. We went through at least a 1/2 dozen cheap mics before I finally got my boss to splurge $400 on a pair of Shure T-288's.

The main problem I found with the voco/hison cheapo mics weren't so much in the sound quality, but the ruggedness of thier designs.

The threads for the screw on battery cover were always too small. After time they would wear out and we'd have to duck tape the batteries in place.

The plastic was very prone to shattering

The threads on the ball grill were plastic. Ball grills would be flung across the room on some singers performances.

Cheap power switches that would break after a few weeks of use.

The occassional "Mystery Sound" these mics would produce on occassion.

I can go on and on about why you should at least get a decent pair of mics. The best thing about a shure mic is they're really good about warrenty and service, and you can get a pair of wireless shures for less than $500.
 
I wasn't gonna bring up VocoPro... but I jusrt saw an ad in Mobile Beat for a new 7 channel mixer that looks like it would be OUTSTANDING!

And if it was any other company, I might even buy it.... too bad
 
Brother Cam,

For what it's worth I tend to agree with Don. Expensive SR equipment is also expensive to repair or replace. You can ask Joe Changle about indifferent people breaking mics. :(

I will be upfront here ~ we do not work with karaoke. It's not our market. That said, we have many close friends in the biz who have shared their karaoke host horror stories over the years.

The 600-pound gorilla in the karaoke biz is the hacks. The people who do things half assed with ripped media just to make an extra buck on a Wednesday night. You've seen 'em... they're the ones who are trying to manage karaoke with an inexpensive DJ mixer.

Lesser brands or low-end models are honestly subjective in this crazy biz. You all know me... I love good system tone. Our cabs ain't rider-friendly but it's got a nice tone. And you may wager that I have never, ever handed our SM58 wireless over to no drunk. If the host gets drunk later in the evening, you'd better believe it ain't gonna happen again.

But again, we don't host karaoke. If we did, I would be hesitant to load Turbo cabs and SM58 mics unless this was an upscale "Star Search" type of event where we were getting paid a decent wage for it all.
 
Now Here is Theory.

The cost of a decent setup. I have picked standards in equipment but certainly other brands would work the same way for the theory.

I find It very common for a host to work 4 days a week so we will us that.


3 Wireless SM58 - $1200 life expecantcy 2 years = $2.88 per show
2 QSC Self Powered 15" Mains 1 QSC SP 18 Sub - $3200 Life 6 years = $2.56 per show.
Mackie Mixer - $700 Life 5 Years = $.67 per Show
2 Dell Notebooks soundcard and accessories - $1500 Life 3 years = $2.34
Driverack - $500 Life 5 Years = $.48 per Show
Lexicon Reverb - $300 Life 5 Years = $.28 per show
SBK Rack for Mixer Speaker Stands Cables Ect $1000 Life 3 years = $1.60

$10.81 per Show

Withe the library in place Music 2 Karaoke cd+g a Month and 1 mainstream cd for current hits dj music. $100 a month = $6.25 a show

I Find a battery last 2 - 3 shows so 1 replaced per show $1.50

Wow Music is the largest expense, a good mixer and reverb cost less than a 9 volt battery.

With the other expenses $18.56

Ok even a KJ that makes $100 a night can afford that price. So it's not about the income the way I see it. 82.44% is good and will only get higher the more one makes.

Lets go even further.

Chevy Trailbazer $479 a month no down payment for 72 months
$30 a show

Maintenace on the Truck $800 a year
$3.84 a show

Gas fill the tank $50 last about 6 shows
$8.33 a show

Total Cost per show $60.73

Lets say the average is $150. $90 take home a night isn't bad, but most people have vehicle expensise anyhow so when can't everyone dedicate $20 a show to have better equipment?

This is the model I used when I got into the business, before I even started doing weddings and parties, only doing karaoke 4 nights a week.
 
Now Here is Theory.

The cost of a decent setup. I have picked standards in equipment but certainly other brands would work the same way for the theory.

I find It very common for a host to work 4 days a week so we will us that.


3 Wireless SM58 - $1200 life expecantcy 2 years = $2.88 per show
2 QSC Self Powered 15" Mains 1 QSC SP 18 Sub - $3200 Life 6 years = $2.56 per show.
Mackie Mixer - $700 Life 5 Years = $.67 per Show
2 Dell Notebooks soundcard and accessories - $1500 Life 3 years = $2.34
Driverack - $500 Life 5 Years = $.48 per Show
Lexicon Reverb - $300 Life 5 Years = $.28 per show
SBK Rack for Mixer Speaker Stands Cables Ect $1000 Life 3 years = $1.60

$10.81 per Show

Withe the library in place Music 2 Karaoke cd+g a Month and 1 mainstream cd for current hits dj music. $100 a month = $6.25 a show

I Find a battery last 2 - 3 shows so 1 replaced per show $1.50

Wow Music is the largest expense, a good mixer and reverb cost less than a 9 volt battery.

With the other expenses $18.56

Ok even a KJ that makes $100 a night can afford that price. So it's not about the income the way I see it. 82.44% is good and will only get higher the more one makes.

Lets go even further.

Chevy Trailbazer $479 a month no down payment for 72 months
$30 a show

Maintenace on the Truck $800 a year
$3.84 a show

Gas fill the tank $50 last about 6 shows
$8.33 a show

Total Cost per show $60.73

Lets say the average is $150. $90 take home a night isn't bad, but most people have vehicle expensise anyhow so when can't everyone dedicate $20 a show to have better equipment?

This is the model I used when I got into the business, before I even started doing weddings and parties, only doing karaoke 4 nights a week.

That's all well and good and the math looks to be pretty accurate... and when broke down like that it's of course a D'uh... but what you have to realize is the initial cost may very well out weight the initial investment capital of the average american wanting to get into DJ'n. And if that DJ is pirating to begin with forget it no way is he going to lay down that kind of cash no matter what the breakdown per night is.

I really don't see why having an over the top system like you are sugesting is going to make that much of a difference especially when you are talking about small to medium sized bars that seat maybe 100-200 people... if that many show up. Plus at the prices your talking about being paid even if it was 4 nights a week I know I couldn't do it... that's just nutz.

Even now I'm on the fence about just upgrading my amp and speakers or going powered with sub... I have to justify the purchase based on the business I expect to generate... and considering I'm relatively new to the game, even though I've been at it for 2 1/2 years now, the gigs are not tripping over themselves to get to me yet. Yet I still want to improve my gear... but if you asked this question a year ago, I'd have told you to go somewhere and how to get there... know what I mean?
 
Brother Cam, I appreciate your assessment of the numbers. If I may, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment.

You've got the perfect scenario. But nothing in life is perfect. As soon as some drunk stumbles and tips a beer over on your console or gets an attitude and throws your 58 across the room, the entire matrix is shot all to hell.

While I fully appreciate your desire to provide the best equipment and vocal tone possible, there is something to be said about casting pearls before swine.

The folks out there who are working with inexpensive gear and mics understand this. They don't necessarily work with inexpensive business equipment because it's inexpensive. They work with it because it's inexpensive to replace.
 
I got a reputation for being an ******* (gee I wonder why?)

I think it's OK to chew someone out in front of the crowd for being a dip****. Why? Well, at least in my situation, everyone understands that this is the "Club's Equipment" and they're all a part of this "Club"

Anyways, if you're in a place with people drinking, they're adults and should behave accordingly. If someone steps outside the realm of being an adult by putting equipment in perril, I see nothing wrong with saying, "Hey! If you ****ing break that Mic the 40 people waiting after you are gonna wanna kill you, you ****ing ass!" Cursing is ok too, again, if you have drunks, they're probably adults so hearing "****ing" and "ass" isn't going to insult them so much.

DJ is very easy compared to KJ'ing. KJ'ing is almost like babysitting sometimes. You REALLY have to interact with the crowd, take peoples ****, knock down people who get out of line, etc.

/note I know this rant is completely offtopic, but hell I just got off work, and it's kind of a retort to what fred said.
 
Karaoke pay = $50 to $150 for four to five hours.
Karaoke venues = bars.
Bars = Drunk people.
Drunk people don't care what the equipment sounds like and can rarely keep a tune anyway.

So, why bust your budget on high-end gear if all you're going to do is karaoke in bars 4 days a week?
 
You've got the perfect scenario. But nothing in life is perfect. As soon as some drunk stumbles and tips a beer over on your console or gets an attitude and throws your 58 across the room, the entire matrix is shot all to hell.

While I fully appreciate your desire to provide the best equipment and vocal tone possible, there is something to be said about casting pearls before swine.

The folks out there who are working with inexpensive gear and mics understand this. They don't necessarily work with inexpensive business equipment because it's inexpensive. They work with it because it's inexpensive to replace.

Let me speak as someone who has done karaoke full time for the last 9 years...

Number one, it just doesnt happen that way. Even in the rowdiest bars, you can control your singers...things arent flying and getting destroyed...it is the hosts responsibility to know when a singer is too drunk to be using your equipment and nip trouble in the bud BEFORE an incident occurs.

Number two...quality equipment will survive BETTER than cheap equipment in the face of abuse. Drop your Nady, I'll drop my Shure and lets see who is heard on retrieval from the floor. Chances are my Shure will survive a drop better.

I used to resist wireless as well...but I went to full wireless over 6 years ago, and can count the drops on one hand, and only damaged one mic to a drop, and it was under warranty. Counter that to the pre wireless days when I would strap a 99 dollar mic to a 20 dollar cord and connect that to a 350 dollar mixer, and have a drunk trip over the cord and damage the mixer, or the cord. Investing in wireless saves me hundreds of dollars in cords, saves me countless liability issues due to trip hazards and seems to be popular with the singers.

Yes it is an inexpensive business, but properly investing in quality equipment means NOT HAVING to replace it so often. Those who chose to use sub par equipment do it because they can...as long as they are getting hired and getting paid using what they have, why improve? Maybe if the singers demanded it, and if there were a better choice and the singers voted with their feet by not supporting the sub par shows, but lets face it; that will never happen. There will always be supporters of the crappiest shows. So when someone comes along to raise the bar, HE has the challenge to over come the obstacles, and take the financial risk, HOPEFULLY with the reward of a loyal appreciative following, and the ability to use that following to demand a better wage at a venue that appreciates his efforts.
 
Karaoke pay = $50 to $150 for four to five hours.
Karaoke venues = bars.
Bars = Drunk people.
Drunk people don't care what the equipment sounds like and can rarely keep a tune anyway.

So, why bust your budget on high-end gear if all you're going to do is karaoke in bars 4 days a week?

I made a career and a comfortable lifestyle from just that. YES, you dont make as much nightly, BUT, you work nightly. Drunk people may not care about the sound, but you are assumptive our clientele are nothing but drunks. You are discounting those who begrudgingly follow us to bars as their only venue to sing...you are discounting those who come and eat and drink responsibly while getting their karaoke fix. We even manage to get *gasp* great singers now and again.

I dont consider buying the proper tools to do a job busting a budget. I call it professionalism.

My phone does not stop ringing...and if I have a night become available, I have a waiting list of restaurants and bars that want me. I get all the work I want, and am scheduled 6 nights a week guaranteed.

But like you say...why bust my budget when all I am doing is karaoke, right?

Anything worth doing is worth doing right...especially if you are attaching your name to it, and your livelihood.
 
Anything worth doing is worth doing right...especially if you are attaching your name to it, and your livelihood.

Wow! You said a mouth full there.

Unfortunately, not only dj's, but America as a whole, has gotten into the mindset of "enough to get by" as opposed to "the right thing to do".

You have a new fan!
 
Cam, There are actually a few parts to your question, and it's one I've answered at length elsewhere, but will try to keep this a bit shorter...


I am, as most here know, primarily a Karaoke Host ( never refer to myself as a 'KJ"). I only DJ for the money, but truly love hosting karaoke. That being said:

First, without doing the "look what I spent to the penny" bit, I can truly say that the cost and quality of my equipment is equal to what any good DJ would have. I have 3 separate setups, and what I use for DJing is completely different than for karaoke.


Now, what may seem cheaper to you may well be BETTER for the job at hand. My favorite example is the microphone. Sennheiser makes wonderful vocal microphones. Clear, crisp sound. Expensive, but worth it- and I would rather die than use one for karaoke. A top pro mic like the Senn is very unforgiving, and picks up every flaw, keychange, and impediment of a non-pro singer's voice, and let's face it, karaoke is for fun, most of these singers aren't on the verge of signing recording contracts. So I use Shure SM-58s and even 48s. They ARE pro quality, yet they are much more forgiving, making my singers sound BETTER than the more expensive Senns. Less expensive, better equipment.

Let's talk about amps: My larger DJ setup can do 3,000 watts, but do you really want 3,000 watts of off-key singing at an average sized bar? My medium amp runs 1800 watts, but for average sized and small bars I only use a 750 watt amp, and rarely go even half volume- and it does a terrific job. In other words, it's BETTER yet cheaper than my 3000 watter.

One other thing. I CAN do quality DJ work with my karaoke setup, but quality karaoke can't be done with a straight DJ setup, though many try. Two-way DJ speakers can't produce the vocal sound that 3-way karaoke speakers can, and remember- with karaoke the vocal midrange is the star.
A DJ mixer doesn't offer the versatility and effects required for karaoke. There's a lot more, but you get the idea.

In other words, in many cases, DJ equipment may cost more for less.

Another bit of pricing info: I am an EE and I also am a distributor of high end electronic components ( resistors, caps, chips, diodes, etcetera ) used in the audio, areospace, and medical industries. Whatever you are PAYING, the electronic quality of components and design between karaoke and DJ equipment is comparable (bells and whistles aside). If a company uses quality components it produces a quality product. There is no delineation between karaoke and DJ ( some one and the same manufacturer.) equipment. I know because I sell to both types.

The "karaoke uses cheaper equipment" statement is a myth. Some DJs use cheap equipment, some don't. Some KJs use cheap equipment, Karaoke Hosts....well, Karaoke Hosts don't :sqcool:
 
There's a lot of truth to that.

Good enough isn't good enough anymore. When one adopts the mindset that nothing is too good for the customer, he will reap the financial rewards. That's where you separate your business from the hacks. :)

Again, we don't offer karaoke hosting. We're not qualified to to do that. If we tried we'd probably be just another clueless hack with a DJ mixer. There's too many of those out there already, lol. If we can't do it right we won't do it at all.

That said, we have miced vocalists and speakers on numerous occasions over the years. Street festivals, the bachelor auctions, wedding singers... and I can tell you this: If your FOH system has poor vocal tone, you're working a one-shot gig. No matter how great the music feed sounds, if your vocal tone is poor or you've got ringing, people notice.

Believe me, they notice.
 
1) Our speakers are all self powered EMU PS5 precision monitors with a self powered PS12 subwoofer with all signals fed through XLR cables. We have 6 of the monitors spread around our 30x20 room with a nice bassy sub hidden behind the main TV on stage.

We have over 18 LED par cans spread around the room for ambient lighting.

Our mics are Shure T-288's (ok, KJ mic is a cheap wired POS, but who cares about that)

The only thing we don't have is a real physical mixer. Our mixing is done via a software DAW called reaper, and controlled by a midi controller. I wrote an article about it here somewhere. The PC is a top notch dual core Pentium 4.

I don't consider my setup to be very expensive, but at the same time it's not top notch like yours is.



2) So you're right. The majority of karaoke venues suck ass when it comes to their equipment. Hisonic mics and a PC. Maybe some cheesy speakers that look like they were ripped out of the backseat of someones riced out honda accord.



1) I've seen a lot of DJs here ( Bergen County, NJ ) who would be put to shame by Toq's equipment. How about "Li'l Jay" ? A PC and two self-powered Gemini GX-350 12" speakers- period.


2) Gotta disagree here- at least in my area. The competition level just won't allow it. A few, maybe, but a lot of the singers have been around long enough to know that crappy equipment makes THEM sound bad. With one exception, I've never seen a real cheapie last long. The exception is a guy that has been at one place forever, and is around 75. He doesn't get many new singers, but the regulars and the restaurant think of him as family. He IS a really nice guy.....
 
... A few, maybe, but a lot of the singers have been around long enough to know that crappy equipment makes THEM sound bad.
Thank you, Joe. It's about time somebody said it.

We've gotten nice vocal tone from cabs that are designed as monitors. Even spot mons can offer good vocal tone if EQed right. And vocal mics really should be EQed and compressed to give a warm tone. :)