Virtual DJ Version 4

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Handinon

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 1, 2014
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Over on another forum, there's a DJ looking to purchase a legitimate copy of Virtual DJ 4.1 revision 2. He says he prefers the way it does Automix over the way Version 7 and Version 8 do it. Not something you see every day.

Software junky that I am, it got me interested. I found a Trial Version of it, and he's right, it does two-deck Automix mixing, which is completely different from the new versions (from Version 5 and onward), and it does it well. Further research found the obligatory groupies over at the Virtual DJ Forum that want two-deck Automix mixing brought back as an option in the current version.

I'm sure there are some here who were DJ'ing back in 2006 - any experience with this?
 
I completely agree with the above.

I started using VDJ at version 3 and lobbied hard for the two deck mix WITH the separate playlist windows for each deck (ala BPM Studio Profi software, which was the software I migrated from into VDJ 3.0). Even version 4 didn't have that dual deck dual playlist option. While cross-mixing between two decks is nice, without the separate playlist option for each deck, being able to alter order, add and delete, for each player individually, it's menza menza at best.

The cross-mixing feature of BPM Studio Profi remains the flagship cross-mixing process of all the software programs I've tried to date. An actual close second was/is running two simultaneous instances of WinAmp. How's that for dating my self age wise.
 
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Wow that's pretty far back. I most likely have it on the hard drives removed from my laptop from 2007. I alway keep the last 2 versions on the machine. I can't imagine going back to use software that all losing all of the features added since then including the big increase in audio quality. I am trying to understand why you would need two separate lists. Could someone please elaborate?
 
Unless you have experienced the ease of each player having it's own playlist capability, the benefits are all in the ease of having two or more options ready to go either individually or in a mix. The flexibility of readied selections and player choice was unparalleled. Today's seacrh features and tagging have simplified actions without the dual player dual playlist but it does not substitute for it.

In other words, ya had to be there to understand it fully.

(To better understand why I think this, I do not use a controller. All my actions in VDJ 7.4 and/or VDJ 8.2 are keyboard shortcuts, scripts, and a trackball.)
 
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I find the philosophy associated with DJ software to be fascinating. First, a few definitions -
AutoPlay - usually just one song after another, no mixing or beat matching, perhaps a fade, no overlap or maybe even a slight pause between songs.
AutoMix - deliberate overlaps with beat matching

There has been software with singular visions of their designer - Juan Antonio Arguelles Rius (Arguru) with the original Deckadance, Rick Cimorelli with Rockit Pro (both deceased in car accidents!), but it's usually a team effort with long term development, using some input from the software developers own forums.

I shall use Serato DJ as an example. The addition of "Sync" caused fist fights and bottle throwing on their Forum. "Real DJ's" should never use it since beat matching is a skill that separates them from the unwashed. It was finally added due to market pressure, but that stupid philosophy still prevails there. Serato DJ's AutoPlay only removes silence at the beginning of a file, not the end, forcing users to have to edit the silence out. It's a tough DJ indeed that NEVER needs a bathroom break. In addition, there is absolutely NO AutoMix.

Then you have the other extreme, to wit this referenced early example of Virtual DJ, that is apparently more true to Atomix's original vision - automate everything. The computer should work for the DJ, not vice versa.

DJ's who operate in the real world (like those on this forum) need software that "if necessary" can do it all, but in fact let the the situation dictate exactly how we will use it.
 
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Digital sync is an important part of mixing today partly because digital streams don't lock the way analog turntables did. Analog tables were both operating and controlled by the same AC 60Hz reference and hence, it was possible to sync two records (motors), leave the booth for a drink and come back two minutes later with them still in sync. You can't do that with software unless you have software to sync the beat grid and time code.

A "Real DJ" would realize that sync provides a unique opportunity to focus on the artistic aspects of a mix, and increase your response time by managing one of the needlessly distracting technical elements. Beat matching was never rocket science. We were never 'washed' - but good timing, harmonics, phrasing, and a sense of drama or energy have always been the Hallmarks of good mixing. I'll gladly let the computer handle sync in exchange for the greater freedom.

I also see no point to dual playlists even with two deck auto mix. (I'm assuming here that each deck played sequentially and to the same output) If it's sequential then unless you're OCD there's no point and no advantage unless each deck was independent and feeding a different zone output. Active screen real estate is valuable so it's also a waste of visual space. There's still software with dual deck mixing but, I haven't seen any with dual playlists.
 
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Handinon said:
DJ's who operate in the real world (like those on this forum) need software that "if necessary" can do it all, but in fact let the the situation dictate exactly how we will use it.
Click to expand...
Oh yes, the whole "if you cant beat without aides, you are not a real a DJ" crap, being able to beat match manually is just one part of what makes a DJ "real", and I think most of the ones that are spouting that crap are club DJ's, and they dont look outside of their little world to see that they are not the only DJ's . So if a radio station DJ cant beat match manually, does that not make him a real DJ?

But on to your point, mobile DJ's can use some of the auto features , and its great that they are there for us to use if need be.
 
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I never liked Virtual DJ's automix, but then I've only played with ver 7 and because I didn't like it (I also found it to be a terrible resource hog), I never bothered trying ver 8. I had never heard of BPM Pro, but have now downloaded a copy and will play with it.

I have also been playing with a couple of plugins that crossfade and automix in Foobar2000 (my library management and studio player software), because Foobar has a fantastic audio engine that brings a tightness and accuracy to the sound that I can't quite seem to duplicate in mixxx, winamp or any other dj software I've tried. If I can get the automix working on Foobar to my satisfaction, I may use it live.

foobar2000

Foobar2000:Foobar2000 - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase
 
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azdeejay said:
Oh yes, the whole "if you cant beat without aides, you are not a real a DJ" crap, being able to beat match manually is just one part of what makes a DJ "real", and I think most of the ones that are spouting that crap are club DJ's, and they dont look outside of their little world to see that they are not the only DJ's . So if a radio station DJ cant beat match manually, does that not make him a real DJ?

But on to your point, mobile DJ's can use some of the auto features , and its great that they are there for us to use if need be.
Click to expand...

It's convenient to dismiss the "Real DJ" arguments, however that doesn't fly in any other profession where skills can be identified and quantified and it doesn't actually fly in professional DJ circles either. Being a DJ has many parallels to being a musician, and we can easily distinguish between professional and amateur performers.

The bulk of individual mobile DJs are not professionals - they are some hybrid of consumer, or prosumer working part-time, self directed and self employed, often in very narrow niches and with limited resources and skill sets. Your Resume' matters, and when the only qualifying reference on it is yourself - it's not what any employment agent would consider up to professional snuff.

It takes a sturdy leather ego to handle that reality, but it is reality.
 
DJ TJ said:
I have also been playing with a couple of plugins that crossfade and automix in Foobar2000 (my library management and studio player software), because Foobar has a fantastic audio engine that brings a tightness and accuracy to the sound that I can't quite seem to duplicate in mixxx, winamp or any other dj software I've tried. If I can get the automix working on Foobar to my satisfaction, I may use it live.
Click to expand...

Foobar is indeed excellent. You can get the Winamp SqrSoft Crossfader Plugin to work with it. The one thing I could never get to work with it was a good sounding Tempo plugin, which for me was a show stopper - and believe me, I tried them all.
 
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Proformance said:
It's convenient to dismiss the "Real DJ" arguments, however that doesn't fly in any other profession where skills can be identified and quantified and it doesn't actually fly in professional DJ circles either. Being a DJ has many parallels to being a musician, and we can easily distinguish between professional and amateur performers.

The bulk of individual mobile DJs are not professionals - they are some hybrid of consumer, or prosumer working part-time, self directed and self employed, often in very narrow niches and with limited resources and skill sets. Your Resume' matters, and when the only qualifying reference on it is yourself - it's not what any employment agent would consider up to professional snuff.

It takes a sturdy leather ego to handle that reality, but it is reality.
Click to expand...

Many professional Djs I know are part time or self employed
 
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Proformance said:
It's convenient to dismiss the "Real DJ" arguments, however that doesn't fly in any other profession where skills can be identified and quantified and it doesn't actually fly in professional DJ circles either.
Click to expand...

Not true. A 'Certified' IT person means little - as there are various areas to be 'certified' in.
 
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Handinon said:
I shall use Serato DJ as an example. The addition of "Sync" caused fist fights and bottle throwing on their Forum. "Real DJ's" should never use it since beat matching is a skill that separates them from the unwashed. It was finally added due to market pressure, but that stupid philosophy still prevails there. Serato DJ's AutoPlay only removes silence at the beginning of a file, not the end, forcing users to have to edit the silence out. It's a tough DJ indeed that NEVER needs a bathroom break. In addition, there is absolutely NO AutoMix.
Click to expand...

And most of the ones that go on about it never had to beat mix before there was software. Just the visual aspect makes it a world easier
 
ittigger said:
Not true. A 'Certified' IT person means little - as there are various areas to be 'certified' in.
Click to expand...

Certificates usually don't mean much and age quite poorly. I believe you can get a certificate from any of the DJ associations too.
 
Proformance said:
Certificates usually don't mean much and age quite poorly. I believe you can get a certificate from any of the DJ associations too.
Click to expand...

Then you just contradicted yourself.
Proformance said:
It's convenient to dismiss the "Real DJ" arguments, however that doesn't fly in any other profession where skills can be identified and quantified and it doesn't actually fly in professional DJ circles either.
Click to expand...

IT 'skills' can be identified and quantified - hence the 'certification'. Before you argue back, there are many 'skills' that are identified and quantified the same way - so this is not isolated to the IT realm or any other realm. Education is also identified and quantified in the same manner.
 
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ittigger said:
Then you just contradicted yourself.

IT 'skills' can be identified and quantified - hence the 'certification'. Before you argue back, there are many 'skills' that are identified and quantified the same way - so this is not isolated to the IT realm or any other realm. Education is also identified and quantified in the same manner.
Click to expand...

I think you're reaching for something that's empty smoke. If I'm wrong about that I'll be the first to congratulate you when your IT certificate earns you a DJ residency. Until then I think you're going to find that an audition is what's required.
 
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