7 foot seems to be a sweet spot! see if it get better with every foot,,,,,,,,, 7 foot seems to be the best one so far
Revisiting Sub Placement
- Thread starter steve149
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I think 7' (roughly) is pretty common for me .. here is the same 7' but pushed closer (8' spread)
Thanks for sharing this! I am impressed with the knowledge that you guys have shared with me so far!
Thanks
Thanks
Moving closer to the wall just builds up a hot spot behind the subs .. making it more intolerable to stand there for a few hours.
These have all been at 80 Hz, which is close to where the punch is ...
Dropping to 60 Hz and 40 Hz for the same setup (I'll stay away from 100 as I don't have tops modeled and unless one models the crossover properly, results will be off)
63 Hz
40 Hz
These have all been at 80 Hz, which is close to where the punch is ...
Dropping to 60 Hz and 40 Hz for the same setup (I'll stay away from 100 as I don't have tops modeled and unless one models the crossover properly, results will be off)
63 Hz
40 Hz
Finally .. 7' from back wall .. this time looking at a combined 45.4-89.4 Hz (probably indicative of most subs)
8' spread
12' spread
8' spread
12' spread
I think I'm good keeping them spread ... though might use center clustering for listening sessions, since it is much more evenly dispersed.
Going back and redoing the center clustered - now with the boundaries in place - picture isn't a smooth .. I think I like the 8' or 12' spread pattern better
But like everything .. it SOOOO depends on a lot of variables
But like everything .. it SOOOO depends on a lot of variables
It seems to me that the 12 foot spread looks better than the 8 or the Mono? @12 apart and @7 back is what Im going to do!
Thanks
Thanks
looks like the 12 apart puts a good spectrum almost 45 feet long and @ 25 or 30 ft wide! that is most of the dance floor!
I think the gist is the spread subs, assuming side walls and a back wall are in place, isn't much different than the center clustered in the 45-80 Hz range. Even SPL differences are minimal when looked at through the useful area and might be better in front and between the subs (dance floor area) to some point.
A lot depends on the sub type and I only modeled a front-firing sub (Meyer M1D - Dual 10" sub - closest I could find to a typical DJ sub) and a 45 x 60 room. A lot depends on the reflectivity of the boundaries, the specific distances, etc., but seeing the graphs, it doesn't look like the 8-15' spread is at too much of a disadvantage and allows me to use the better looking (IMO) pole mounted top with no worries.
I won't disagree on the centering (based on the graphs), but for me there is more to the puzzle:
I need to mount the tops on something
I find the pole over sub to be more stable than the tripod
I find tripods not as attractive as the sub pole mount (purely opinion)
I don't need to wring out every last bit of performance
.. and one of my options (EVOX 8) doesn't give me much of an alternative
So, I'll take the less than peak overall performance and trade it for an easier to setup, prettier look (opinion only folks) and less obtrusive/more stable base .. with better performance on the dance floor to boot
Aesthetic factors are relative - but if you are going to make aesthetics a priority, it helps to know what you are trading off....so kudos for doing the modeling yourself.
Try the "centered" and "next to the wall" setup - across the frequency range. That might give you an alternative to the 7ft location stand off.
At 1/4 wavelength, the wave reflected off the backwall will be 180 deg out of phase with the source. That results in about a -24dB notch filter on the in room response. 7ft is 1/4 wavelength at about 40Hz. The general rule of thumb is "Never place subs between 2.5 and 8ft from a boundary" to avoid the 1/4 wavelength cancellation issues. Those distances cover the 40Hz to 100Hz frequency range.
Tops will have similar issues as subs, but the high frequencies change the rule-of-thumb distances. For tops, separation by two wavelengths @ 100Hz means just over 22ft. The net result is that tops and subs are (almost) never optimally placed in the same location. That means if you want to place tops on poles over subs...you are making a tradeoff. My advice is to make sure that is an informed tradeoff.
Where I set up, I'm usually limited to about the 15' in width I modeled and usually have the table 3' from the back wall (putting the speakers roughly 5' out), so I should run the numbers with the sub fronts 5' out. Not an option to spread the tops further in most places, so 12'-15' spread is probably the limit.
There are lots of compromises to be made, but seeing as the numbers don't show night and day differences between the setups and I'm not looking to eek out the utmost SPL levels, I think I'm OK with the 12' spread top over sub .. seems to give me at least a workable system .. not ideal .. but I could only get that in 20% of the places I set up in.
There are lots of compromises to be made, but seeing as the numbers don't show night and day differences between the setups and I'm not looking to eek out the utmost SPL levels, I think I'm OK with the 12' spread top over sub .. seems to give me at least a workable system .. not ideal .. but I could only get that in 20% of the places I set up in.
>>>>Actually the "feel and hear" as far as SPL in bass will get greater the closer you get to the bass enclosure, that's what this is telling you!<<<<
Let me know how that works for you.
(You seem to go on to explain what I said, which is basically "You need to be farther away to hear it")...
GJ
Let me know how that works for you.
(You seem to go on to explain what I said, which is basically "You need to be farther away to hear it")...GJ
all of this "knowledge" is great but in a real world application most of us wedding jocks are not presented with ideal setup locations, and symmetry and the look of our set up matters as much as the sound to client
>>>>Actually the "feel and hear" as far as SPL in bass will get greater the closer you get to the bass enclosure, that's what this is telling you!<<<<
Let me know how that works for you.
GJ
The "farther thing" only pertains to 80HZ and above,,,,, 80 HZ and below is omni- directional,,,, meaning it has an Omni-spatial presence!
it radiates from all sides of the transducer unless it has a lens (scoops) which it still radiates in a 360 degree!, but has a 3 to 6 db hump in front of the lens ( the opening of the scoop) due to a cortiod affect that the scoop are a great design for! It is like a big bass gun which is able to compress the signal and point it into a direction
So no I disproved your statement,
Given that, isn't it better to understand the tradeoffs that different placement options produce? That allows you to make an informed decision, rather than just a guess.
I could not find a trophy emoticon.
Yes ..
Unfortunately, the tradeoffs and optimal locations change with rooms, location in said room, gear used, etc. I just wanted to see for myself if setting up in the top over sub locations (normal 8-15' spread around my location) would be seriously detrimental to my sound .. seems in many/most cases it WILL NOT .. might not be ideal or benefit me in the plus column .. but it also won't kill my sound .. and to quote Sammy Johns .. "And that's alright with me".
SO I will go with aesthetics over optimal and the graphs helped me make that decision ..