Revisiting Sub Placement
- Thread starter steve149
- Start date
I've been carb loading, but that's a different thread ...
Steve-- Could you model-up a back-to-the-wall/corner-load scenario?
>>>>Good idea - hopefully would also minimize foot traffic in the larger opening.<<<<
Doubt it. People will walk through any area that they are not physically restrained from entering...
>>>>I've been carb loading, but that's a different thread ...<<<<
I'm back on the Carb-Night Solution (tm). I lost 50 lbs. last year. Still have a few more to go.
GJ
>>>>Good idea - hopefully would also minimize foot traffic in the larger opening.<<<<
Doubt it. People will walk through any area that they are not physically restrained from entering...
>>>>I've been carb loading, but that's a different thread ...<<<<
I'm back on the Carb-Night Solution (tm). I lost 50 lbs. last year. Still have a few more to go.
GJ
Here it is with subs in the corner (same room size .. 45 x 60)
Here is a slightly smaller room (30 x 45)
Coolio, thanks.
Even though there are "alleys," I'm thinking that looks better than the concentrated/concentric-circle coverage of center-coupled subs. Especially factoring in that the listener needs a certain amount of distance from the speakers to actually hear or feel any bass whatsoever! If the dance floor or audience is too close to the subs, the bass effect will be negligible...
GJ
Even though there are "alleys," I'm thinking that looks better than the concentrated/concentric-circle coverage of center-coupled subs. Especially factoring in that the listener needs a certain amount of distance from the speakers to actually hear or feel any bass whatsoever! If the dance floor or audience is too close to the subs, the bass effect will be negligible...
GJ
Are you sure you enabled the walls as boundaries? That looks like "half space" - so there is a floor, but not walls.
Go to Settings->Prediction Plane. As a start "Rigid" or "Plaster on Lath" are the best "all purpose" wall materials for the typical rooms we see.
Also...each prediction uses the loudest point as "0dB" with all other points below that. In general terms, the PATTERN can be compared between different setups, but not the overall SPL. If you want to compare the relative SPL between setups, make a 200ft wide room and put different setups into the top and bottom 1/3 of that space. It's not perfect, but it is better than guessing.
12 foot spread,,,, away from the wall seems to me the most likely candidate! It has one big wide alley, with no valleys on the dance floor!
corner loading seems to have too many valleys and alleys, with about a 30 db difference! Any sound engineer will tell you that you want to eliminate all or as many as possible (Valleys) in your listening area!
corner loading seems to have too many valleys and alleys, with about a 30 db difference! Any sound engineer will tell you that you want to eliminate all or as many as possible (Valleys) in your listening area!
It might look better on the simulator, but I'd rather have a bigger concentration of sub frequencies, bombarding the dance floor instead of being spread around the room. This thread has been interesting, especially after my past couple weekends' experiences. In a large (huge) room and with a 40' spread, it was amazing how much cancellation I got. Center-loading put a huge amount of chest-thumping bass, right on the middle of the dance floor and yet it still radiated a full-range sound throughout the rest of the building. This past weekend's room was much smaller but ended up with the same results; lots of pounding on the dance floor and sounded good in the rest of the room.
AM I sure .. Gawd No ..
Turns out I did not have the boundaries turned on (Thanks .. haven't read the instructions yet
)Here is the updated smaller room with "rigid" walls (looks very sexy by the way)
Actually the "feel and hear" as far as SPL in bass will get greater the closer you get to the bass enclosure, that's what this is telling you!
Here i go,,,,,,this is a great illustration of SPL and distance, but this gets some people confused . When someone says "oh dude these are LONG THROW !!!!! drivers" or These speakers don't open up until 20 feet! What is happening has little to do with SPL!!!!!! It is the Soundstage that opens up because of the Spatial Axle that a PA speaker possesses. In the band sound stage arena, if the stacks or arrays are about 30 feet apart, then we know that they will achieve Spatial Conjunction at about 20 to 25 feet out! Meaning that the sound will not have any separation or depth if you are standing closer, so we usually put in some 12 or 15 inch tops, spread out about 15 feet apart to give some sound to the people standing in the mains Spatial Deficiency ZONE!
Now these people are getting ALOT of SPL from the bass cabs,,,,, and now the are sitting in the spatial axles of another set of speakers,,,,and POW they hear the whole concert, instead of alot of BASS! so do you see the difference, or maybe understand when people say PA speakers are Long Throw!!!! that just means that their Spatial Axles are narrow and by being far apart,,,, the Spatial axles have a long distance of conjunction!
some things I learned from being a Roadie!
But your thoughts will soon be wandering, the way they always do
When you're riding sixteen hours and there's nothing much to do
And you don't feel much like riding, you just wish the trip was through!
AM I sure .. Gawd No ..
Turns out I did not have the boundaries turned on (Thanks .. haven't read the instructions yet
Here is the updated smaller room with "rigid" walls (looks very sexy by the way)
View attachment 29929
Almost think that last graphic needs to be labelled "NSFW".
That looks much more realistic. 80Hz is the middle of the sub range, but you should test the common range of frequencies to get a sense of the overall complexity of the sound field (and tradeoffs). Put the cabinets next to each other. Then test with them touching the wall, and at 7ft from the wall. Test each position at 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, and 100Hz.
Until the subs can be separated by two wavelengths (56ft @ 40Hz) it's (almost) always better to have them touching. Even in cases where the subs can be that far apart in a room....I rarely put one in each corner until the room is 100ft wide. I will have three piles of subs, one cabinet in each corner and two cabinets centered in the room.
thats funny,,,, that shows the " bottom end penetration "..... search that up on Google!
I often wonder how much distance from the back wall is good,,,, maybe one cabinet length? or 2 in order to produce a cortiod effect .
did you have to tell it 7 feet, I wonder what moving that figure would do?
did you have to tell it 7 feet, I wonder what moving that figure would do?
I won't disagree on the centering (based on the graphs), but for me there is more to the puzzle:
I need to mount the tops on something
I find the pole over sub to be more stable than the tripod
I find tripods not as attractive as the sub pole mount (purely opinion)
I don't need to wring out every last bit of performance
.. and one of my options (EVOX 8) doesn't give me much of an alternative
So, I'll take the less than peak overall performance and trade it for an easier to setup, prettier look (opinion only folks) and less obtrusive/more stable base .. with better performance on the dance floor to boot
I figured 7' was about typical - set at the front of the table .. table is 4-5 ft from the back wall. Same setup setting the subs at 4' and 1'.
No, if i was smart I could figure out how to make money knowing this stuff! but all it does is cost me money!Wow, you must be purty smart or something................
,,,, Do you know how to get rich by Dj'ing????????? start off by being Filthy rich.