Amps

[rickryan.com]

I'm wondering if this thread isn't a bit mixed up. Regarding the Furmans, I was speaking of Furman REGULATORS, not conditioners. I believe Scott has stated it was bad to use a regulator on amps. Are we all talking the same device?

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Here are some good articles on the subject.
If you are really concerned about Voltage Regulation then Equipment like this can help. http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=P-2400AR

Other good Information:


Chapter 19: http://books.google.com/books?id=YW...nepage&q=ac power to audio amplifiers&f=false

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

http://electronics.stackexchange.co...ly-how-to-get-the-voltage-and-current-ratings

By "education", I didn't mean voltage calculators or docs on how to design a church sound system. I'm specifically asking about why I should not be powering a power amp from a regulator. I understand if you're using a beefy amp that's pulling the full circuit but in my case, I'm pulling spikes of maybe 5 or 6 amps against a 15-amp circuit.

 

[ahoustondj]

I'm wondering if this thread isn't a bit mixed up. Regarding the Furmans, I was speaking of Furman REGULATORS, not conditioners. I believe Scott has stated it was bad to use a regulator on amps. Are we all talking the same device?

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By "education", I didn't mean voltage calculators or docs on how to design a church sound system. I'm specifically asking about why I should not be powering a power amp from a regulator. I understand if you're using a beefy amp that's pulling the full circuit but in my case, I'm pulling spikes of maybe 5 or 6 amps against a 15-amp circuit.

There is plenty in the first link! Electronic Principles don't vary because one is using a DJ system.

 

[rickryan.com]

There is plenty in the first link! Electronic Principles don't vary because one is using a DJ system.

The first link is a Furman sales page. It does not address the issue of running a power amp off a regulated circuit.

 

[ahoustondj]

The first link is a Furman sales page. It does not address the issue of running a power amp off a regulated circuit.

Did you take the time to read the specs and other information that could have answered your question? Oh Brother! Carry on man. Use whatever you want the people won't know the difference and will dance anyway!

 

[steve149]

Regulator, conditioner .. it's all pretty much the same .. it's some active circuitry designed to minimize spikes, low-voltage conditions, noise, etc. .. each to a varying degree.

The issue is whether the unit itself impacts the ability of an amplifier to draw what it needs when it is needed. Period.

I have never seen an issue running 3 amps simultaneously (a 775w/ch, a 550w/ch, and a 425w/ch) on my single Monster 3500 .. and I covered a town green and close to 450 people with that, nor have I seen in writing from any of the equipment makers or AV professionals not to do it. Maybe it isn't necessary, but it isn't a bad thing unless your regulator/conditioner can't keep up .. no different than any other piece of the system.

My powered tops are also home run to my smaller Furman in my DJ rack as well.

 

[rickryan.com]

Did you take the time to read the specs and other information that could have answered your question?

Yes, I read the specs. It's a 20-amp regulator. That's not the question. If an amp is pulling power, well within the specs of the regulator, why should you avoid running an amp on a regulated circuit? THAT is the question and is not covered on the sales page and, even if it were, not quite sure I'd trust a biased source.

@steve - Perhaps I'm wrong but it was my understanding that a conditioner and regulator are distinctly different. While a conditioner is supposed to "clean" the power and prevent spikes, it does nothing about low-voltage conditions, which is what a regulator is for. I had a gig once (before I had a regulator) where I was pulling maybe 95 volts from the wall and it fried 2 powered speakers. Since I put the regulator in place I still see times where I'm hitting low voltage but as I understand it the regulator will step it up to give 120 to the equipment. My understanding is that a conditioner would not. But of course, I could be wrong.

 

[steve149]

Yes, I read the specs. It's a 20-amp regulator. That's not the question. If an amp is pulling power, well within the specs of the regulator, why should you avoid running an amp on a regulated circuit? THAT is the question and is not covered on the sales page and, even if it were, not quite sure I'd trust a biased source.

@steve - Perhaps I'm wrong but it was my understanding that a conditioner and regulator are distinctly different. While a conditioner is supposed to "clean" the power and prevent spikes, it does nothing about low-voltage conditions, which is what a regulator is for. I had a gig once (before I had a regulator) where I was pulling maybe 95 volts from the wall and it fried 2 powered speakers. Since I put the regulator in place I still see times where I'm hitting low voltage but as I understand it the regulator will step it up to give 120 to the equipment. My understanding is that a conditioner would not. But of course, I could be wrong.

Not sure .. I think it's a different name for a similar game. There are differences between units, but as I mentioned (and I assume you surmise) if they aren't getting in the way, not sure it's a bad thing to use them.

 

[ahoustondj]

Yes, I read the specs. It's a 20-amp regulator. That's not the question. If an amp is pulling power, well within the specs of the regulator, why should you avoid running an amp on a regulated circuit? THAT is the question and is not covered on the sales page and, even if it were, not quite sure I'd trust a biased source.

@steve - Perhaps I'm wrong but it was my understanding that a conditioner and regulator are distinctly different. While a conditioner is supposed to "clean" the power and prevent spikes, it does nothing about low-voltage conditions, which is what a regulator is for. I had a gig once (before I had a regulator) where I was pulling maybe 95 volts from the wall and it fried 2 powered speakers. Since I put the regulator in place I still see times where I'm hitting low voltage but as I understand it the regulator will step it up to give 120 to the equipment. My understanding is that a conditioner would not. But of course, I could be wrong.

Rick Ryan, information from a manufacturer can hold loads of truth. They may emphasize their product a bit more and that is to be expected. Just as your explanations of things that occur at your events, that too can be biased. Yet we take your word for it. If you read the Tech Corner, you would have seen a Video that answers your concerns. Rane, JBL, Crown etc all put out Educational and Informational Articles/Videos on products which basically operate the same regardless if they manufacture it or not.

 

[steve149]

Rick Ryan, information from a manufacturer can hold loads of truth. They may emphasize their product a bit more and that is to be expected. Just as your explanations of things that occur at your events, that too can be biased. Yet we take your word for it. If you read the Tech Corner, you would have seen a Video that answers your concerns. Rane, JBL, Crown etc all put out Educational and Informational Articles/Videos on products which basically operate the same regardless if they manufacture it or not.

I guess I'm still missing it, as the Tech Corner answers seem to indicate that a regulator/conditioner SHOULD be used with amps mainly to clean up incoming AC line noise.

 

[ahoustondj]

I guess I'm still missing it, as the Tech Corner answers seem to indicate that a regulator/conditioner SHOULD be used with amps mainly to clean up incoming AC line noise.

Yes you are missing it. Evidently the man feels confident in using a Regulator. I never said it was a good or bad thing to do. All I did was offer him a link that included a Regulator/Conditioner Combo if he wanted to continue.

Here is my quote "Here are some good articles on the subject.
If you are really concerned about Voltage Regulation then Equipment like this can help. http://www.furmansound.com/product.p...01&id=P-2400AR"

This is what I am talking about when I say things get twisted.

 

[steve149]

Yes you are missing it. Evidently the man feels confident in using a Regulator. I never said it was a good or bad thing to do. All I did was offer him a link that included a Regulator/Conditioner Combo if he wanted to continue.

Here is my quote "Here are some good articles on the subject.
If you are really concerned about Voltage Regulation then Equipment like this can help. http://www.furmansound.com/product.p...01&id=P-2400AR"

This is what I am talking about when I say things get twisted.

Not twisted .. you said above:

There is plenty in the first link! Electronic Principles don't vary because one is using a DJ system.

and I'm missing what you were standing up for: amps into a power regulator/conditioner or not? The links talk about power, but not this specific issue .. other than the Furman stuff, which naturally talks about using a Furman.

 

[ahoustondj]

 

[rickryan.com]

I guess I'm still missing it, as the Tech Corner answers seem to indicate that a regulator/conditioner SHOULD be used with amps mainly to clean up incoming AC line noise.

If you're running high-load units (i.e. big amps) that spike above the rated max of the regulator, it's obvious, you go straight to the wall and with the shortest cable you can use. However, in my case, I'm well under 10-amps (half-load) and there are venues where voltage is low. I'd much rather have an amp running at full voltage rather than struggling to do its job on 105 or 110v.

 

[SoftJock Rick]

and I'm missing what you were standing up for: amps into a power regulator/conditioner or not? The links talk about power, but not this specific issue .. other than the Furman stuff, which naturally talks about using a Furman.

I don't think he has any DJ gigs lined up, so he's probably getting kicbacks for posting certain product links on DJ and audio sites.

Did you ever notice he doesn't post any real world experience he has had with these products? He just posts links to the manu or place to buy them.


Anyway, I use a Belkin PureAV. The voltage drops on a regular basis around here by the oil companies. It maintains a steady voltage, until we hit about 87 volts coming into The Farm.