Important new article from Robin Gross on PCKJ's.

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T

toqer

New DJ
Feb 1, 2007
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For those that don't know Robin Gross, Robin was the original lawyer that did a legal analysis on the issue of PCKJ's. Robin was paid by MTU systems to look at the law. On 2-22-07 Robin did an update to the original article.

Click here for the new legal analysis.

I'm not going to copy and paste the whole article (nobody else should either, it's not nice) but i'll give you all a summary. Note: The karaoke producers legal advisors have never stepped forward to throw a counterpoint at this argument. The statements from Stellar and Sound Choice were from either the company presidents, or business directors. (Meaning, I don't think thier legal advisors really want to be associated with these statements)

Basically, if you're not pirating, you're in the clear. Commercial or not, you're in the clear.

Discuss.
 
DJ CAM:

Unfortunatly this thread is going to be repeated until it gets resolved.

The one good thing I can say about odjt is this is the only forum i've seen where the discussion hasn't disintigrated into a flamefest forcing the moderators to shut down the discussion. People here are a bit more mature than what i've seen elsewhere.

I kind of agree with you.. Maybe there is no point in discussing this. At least not until the karaoke companies are ready to settle down and start asking the community for solutions to the piracy problem. Until then though, what's the point if they're going name call thier legitimate customers criminals?
 
There is no resolution, no one will ever agree on the solution. If you run a show from computer and you own the disc, any lawyer will get you off scott free due to discrepancies in the written law.

If you run a computer show and do not own the disc, again most lawyers would get you off scott free. It might just not be a good idea to go back to hosting karaoke.

Being legit, it gives me a sense of feeling that I do things the right way. It also helps out come tax time to lower my income. The inital library is very expensive but with so few songs being put out these days $100 a month for karaoke music is cheap.

I believe that the rumors of people actually being busted is simply scare tactics of the companies. I have never actually seen any proof that anyone has been busted.

The music industry has much more problems than the karaoke industry. Pirating is never going to stop, even if 1000's of people are busted, the way the internet has been setup, it would take shutting it completely down and securing everything, which would take months. Even then it would start all over in a month or so. The net is a free place ungoverned by laws, it seems the only law for the internet that is enforced, you must be over 18 to be seen naked.

There will always be a napster, yeah it's changed names a few times but easy access to a p2p network will always be there.

No One has even once investigated IRC.

Karaoke should just go to business liscening. Something you need to buy every year. Make it like $5000 and you no longer need to buy music. It would get rid of all the cheap KJ that don't play by the rules. Make the fines really big like (1st offense operation without a DJ / KJ license $100,000 and up to 90 days in jail) and let the police on the county level enforce it, it would be a nice chunk of change for them they could give them 25% of the fine plus cost.
 
DJ Cam said:
Karaoke should just go to business liscening. Something you need to buy every year. Make it like $5000 and you no longer need to buy music. It would get rid of all the cheap KJ that don't play by the rules. Make the fines really big like (1st offense operation without a DJ / KJ license $100,000 and up to 90 days in jail) and let the police on the county level enforce it, it would be a nice chunk of change for them they could give them 25% of the fine plus cost.
Click to expand...


That's a great idea but what about us legit KJ's that aren't making enough to even pay rent... that would kill off not only the cheap pirates but also the ones playing by the rules that don't have deep enough pockets.... Now I could see an option that allows you to be legal $500 yearly and you still have to purchase you music... but be allowed to space shift without worry of recrimination. But, even with that the pirates will still do their thing $500, $5,000... or $5,000,000.00 (ok maybe $5million would stop them) but you get my point.
 
jokerswild said:
That's a great idea but what about us legit KJ's that aren't making enough to even pay rent... that would kill off not only the cheap pirates but also the ones playing by the rules that don't have deep enough pockets.... Now I could see an option that allows you to be legal $500 yearly and you still have to purchase you music... but be allowed to space shift without worry of recrimination. But, even with that the pirates will still do their thing $500, $5,000... or $5,000,000.00 (ok maybe $5million would stop them) but you get my point.
Click to expand...

You must understand
an amount like $5k is not much considering your stock as a KJ should increase greatly. I'd be all for any fee up to the amount of $15,000. working 5 nights a week I could simply increase my rates for $250 a night to $300. 52 weeks in a year, 5 nights a week = $13000 I would simple eat the extra $2k. I know for a fact if they implemented this anyone that is not business oriented would simply fall off the map if they did a nationwide sweep.

A standard like I explained and big fines as well as big reward to local authorities for prosecution would solve the problem. they could do this for any type of DJ and really help our business.

The unfortunate outcome would be that, it would eliminate the part time KJ. But I'm sure there could be a part time liscence, but then you would have to watch the people with part time liscence if they were working more than x amount of days.

As I logically try to think thought the situation there is no logial answer, this is a free country and no one will ever agree on anything.

Bottom line the situation stinks, it's not going to get any better. The biggest disappointment is that the amount of music available to us as KJ's is getting less and less along with the hot songs coming to us later and later.

I'm going to continue my purchase of the 6 or so good karaoke cd's available a month, and rip them to my computer. If I ever get fined I'll gladly scan a copy of all court papers and post them here, pay my fines and lawyer and go about my life, and I will fight my fair use rights right to the supreme court.

Guess what, I'll win.
 
I wouldn't even mind a licensing scheme like the one in Canada. It's something like CAN$350 (around US$300) annually to register a hard drive with digitally shifted music for commercial use. (I found some info at http://www.avla2007.ca/index.php/licensing/dj/show/hardsummary ). It lists this for only DJs, but the idea could be extended to KJs, too.

A licensing scheme like this would eliminate (I hope :)) the uncertainties that some KJs & DJs have about running digital systems. In the long run, it would save millions of dollars in court costs & fines for accidental non-compliance of music licensing. (Intentional non-compliance: You'd know the penalties up front & you'd KNOW what compliance is with a little education.)

I don't think threads like this are useless, and I definitely don't think this thread is redundant. It's updated information and I really appreciate it. As long as this subject is of concern to KJs and DJs alike, it's going to continue to come up.
 
DJ Cam said:
Karaoke should just go to business liscening. Something you need to buy every year. Make it like $5000 and you no longer need to buy music. It would get rid of all the cheap KJ that don't play by the rules. Make the fines really big like (1st offense operation without a DJ / KJ license $100,000 and up to 90 days in jail) and let the police on the county level enforce it, it would be a nice chunk of change for them they could give them 25% of the fine plus cost.

The unfortunate outcome would be that, it would eliminate the part time KJ.
Click to expand...

LMAO! That's AWESOME! Frankly, they should do that for DJ's too. It'd get rid of "unqualified entities" (as one of my wife's competitors put it). Every business has a start up cost, and big ticket items are one of the toughest hurdles for a new business. It would force part timers to make a decision as you point out, but it wouldn't necessarily kill them off. How many of us know KJs that work for beer (or even free!)? The ones that really want to KJ could still go to work for one of the existing KJs, and the ones that really want to continue KJing but lack deep pockets could do like most businesses do and get a small business loan. Can't write a business plan? Tough schnookies. Bank still won't give you a loan after reading your business plan? Try talking to a family member, VC, or Guido in that alley. If you really wanted it bad enough, you'd find a way. Just look at poor broke college kids who smoke...no money for food, but they always have cigarettes (can you tell I have one those? :sqmad: ).

Anyhow, that's an awesome idea, and it'll put a warm wmiley on my face for the rest of the day. :rofl:
 
Tim_Myth said:
LMAO! That's AWESOME! Frankly, they should do that for DJ's too. It'd get rid of "unqualified entities" (as one of my wife's competitors put it). Every business has a start up cost, and big ticket items are one of the toughest hurdles for a new business. It would force part timers to make a decision as you point out, but it wouldn't necessarily kill them off. How many of us know KJs that work for beer (or even free!)? The ones that really want to KJ could still go to work for one of the existing KJs, and the ones that really want to continue KJing but lack deep pockets could do like most businesses do and get a small business loan. Can't write a business plan? Tough schnookies. Bank still won't give you a loan after reading your business plan? Try talking to a family member, VC, or Guido in that alley. If you really wanted it bad enough, you'd find a way. Just look at poor broke college kids who smoke...no money for food, but they always have cigarettes (can you tell I have one those? :sqmad: ).

Anyhow, that's an awesome idea, and it'll put a warm wmiley on my face for the rest of the day. :rofl:
Click to expand...
I work as a part-time KJ. I envy people like Toquer and you if you're able to work full-time as a KJ - I wish I could find the work in my market. I agree that the KJ industry is full of... (carefully choosing words...) sub-par hosts that do it for fun. I also know many awesome hosts who love what they do and do it for fun part-time. In my mind, I think the goal (as it applies to this thread) should be to weed out those who don't "play by the rules" - a.k.a. those who don't get their music legally. In order to weed them out, we need rules - what, exactly, is legal or illegal in the KJ industry? (OK, there's the obvious "illegal"/stealing, but Toq is talking about the gray areas of this industry.) The PCKJ vs. disc-based KJ debate will continue to rage until rules are spelled out legislatively or judicially (laws or court decisions).

"Unqualified entities" with deep pockets will continue in KJ markets that they've entered without improving the "craft" just by the virtue of deep pockets and maybe a little bit of business "smarts." That doesn't mean that they always serve their clients. They start, they build and they adapt or they fail. I've seen many "unqualified entities" with small budgets start, learn, and become "qualified entities." I don't think a pocketbook should determine their success.
 
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