Putting out fires

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Valerie Hicks

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Oct 21, 2006
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Rick Ryan's thread about his music list concerns got me to thinking about multi ops and damage control. I'm not picking on Rick here, it's just his thread that got me thinking about it. When I managed a multi op, we ran into another multi op after our event one early morning at a Perkins or similar restaurant. We of course chatted a bit about our events and such..then he said he better go start writing refund checks...because he expects to get complaints pretty much every weekend. No it wasn't a passing joking comment. HE was a few sheets to the wind and saying more than he should. ANyway, we were in disbelief, because it was certainly not the norm for us!

So, what are your thoughts? Do multi ops tend to accept more because for one reason or another they either expect or accept less from their djs? Is it because they are often money-driven instead of customer driven; making the assumption that in general a single op has more personal attachment to each customer? Does the general public tend to complain more because they can complain to the owner; not the same person who performed at their event? Is it a factor of the typical customer or typical price range? In RR's case, he's gunshy because of previous experiences...is he doing something wrong? what can he do to minimize this situation (given that he has said it's a reasonably rare occurrance)?

I managed a multi op for years. We ran up to 250 shows a year. In the 15 years I worked there, I can count on 1 hand the number of refunds + number of complaints we fielded...were we exceptional at employee management and training? Is this a function of laziness?

Just thinking back a few years....
 
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A lot of it has to do with what is written in the (I call it) Agreement. I have seen some that read like a book with everything from what time the DJ will arrive to what color tie the DJ will wear. The main focus should be the Service to be performed. The General expectation of a DJ is to play Music. No implied expectations should be given. I have never had to give back a refund in all my 30+ years of DJing!
My Checklist is thus;
You Hire me:
You pay me:
I agree to play music for your event.
I show up and start performance on time.
I thank you for the business.
Simple.
I have also had other guys go out and represent me and also no problems.
 
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Val, I appreciate you starting this thread. Obviously, I'm still relatively new at the multi-op thing and have made plenty of mistakes. I'm trying very hard to not repeat them, thus the reason for my other thread. As for laziness, I believe I'm demonstrating just the opposite so I'll choose to not take that as a potshot at me.

I know of two other multi-ops in town and at least one of those has a policy that they take a minimal retainer then won't even beef if the client doesn't pay them. Additionally, they don't even require the balance until the end of the night, and only if the client is 100% satisfied. By the way, I know this because one of my guys worked for them 12 years. In their case, it was what I'd call ridiculous. They'd get some kid out of college, provide some training, then pay him $250 per night on a gig they got $1k for. Even then, if the DJ got screwed out of being paid because of their refund policy, they were fine with it. The 2nd multi-op is a very shrewd business man but he does play it much closer to the vest. I have heard him call himself "the king of complaints" but I don't know if he caves and gives money back or not.

In my own case, I was following suit with them in that I'd use a refund to buy silence on the part of the complainer. I always tried to go above and beyond and if anyone was going to get screwed, it'd be me. Problem is, I finally began to realize there was an under-current among brides that knew they could write themselves a discount if they just found something to complain about. I think what broke it for me was when I actually had a couple who voice it "You give me money back or I'll post bad reviews." Right or wrong, I finally bowed my back up and haven't given a single refund since then. Now keep in mind, if I do a crappy job on preparing my guys then I'd certainly make it right but I'm finished with this bridal extortion game. I've learned how to listen to their complaints but stop short of writing any checks.

You did raise a good point about complaining to the owner. There have been a few events where it was clear, the guy did a good job but obviously I wasn't personally there so the bride knew it was her word against his. Keeping a copy of the playlists has generally helped and I've had a few cases where the bride was flat out lying and the playlist proved her wrong.

I appreciate you also sharing about your former experience. That's really impressive. I do think though, both from my experience and from discussions I've had with other vendors (not just DJs) that the internet bookings have given rise to the fake complaints bit. Personally, I see about 3% who have some gripe. I believe I remember a couple last year that was a (minor) screw-up on my company's part.
 
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I'll choose to not take that as a potshot at me.
oh surely, take no offense..it just got me thinking of generalities. I don't know enough about you or your business to make any claims or insults!
Seriously. As I initially said, it's not intended to be a bash against you or your company, just provoke some thought...mostly generalities and stereotypes! lol
 
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Rick Ryan's thread about his music list concerns got me to thinking about multi ops and damage control. I'm not picking on Rick here, it's just his thread that got me thinking about it. When I managed a multi op, we ran into another multi op after our event one early morning at a Perkins or similar restaurant. We of course chatted a bit about our events and such..then he said he better go start writing refund checks...because he expects to get complaints pretty much every weekend. No it wasn't a passing joking comment. HE was a few sheets to the wind and saying more than he should. ANyway, we were in disbelief, because it was certainly not the norm for us!

So, what are your thoughts? Do multi ops tend to accept more because for one reason or another they either expect or accept less from their djs? Is it because they are often money-driven instead of customer driven; making the assumption that in general a single op has more personal attachment to each customer? Does the general public tend to complain more because they can complain to the owner; not the same person who performed at their event? Is it a factor of the typical customer or typical price range? In RR's case, he's gunshy because of previous experiences...is he doing something wrong? what can he do to minimize this situation (given that he has said it's a reasonably rare occurrance)?

I managed a multi op for years. We ran up to 250 shows a year. In the 15 years I worked there, I can count on 1 hand the number of refunds + number of complaints we fielded...were we exceptional at employee management and training? Is this a function of laziness?

Just thinking back a few years....

You can't generalize. The existence of complaints, issues, and refunds is normal - that's why every major store has a "customer service department."
I've been on the inside of a number of multi-ops and the reasons for refunds or complaints vary quite a bit. I don't recall giving out many refunds - but, that has more to do with having a realistic approach and the ability to anticipate problems, manage issues up front, and negotiate complaints to a satisfactory resolution.

Where a DJ has an ill-conceived plan or expectation - then yes, complaints and refunds will be high as people reject and opt out of an ill-fitting service. That is not enough however, to evaluate a serious multi-op on the basis of frequency of complaints alone. One would have to look more closely at the complaints. Are they always about the same issue? Is the issue within the company or is there another pattern emerging within the consumers?

Indy DJs take complaints personally, and customers have to gauge that personality before deciding if a complaint is even worth mentioning. Single-ops don't invite and don't respond well to negative feedback. People sense this. Serious multi-ops provide the ear of a third party within the company that mitigates the personal investment in being heard. The multi-op doesn't have to take it personally. It may not be the fault of any one person and so feedback - especially negative feedback is extremely helpful to a multi-op.

First, consider the possibility that one company may be dealing with a more demanding clientele with very difficult needs or expectations. If you are going to take on difficult challenges then you have to be prepared for some difficult outcomes. Big rewards come with bigger risk and occasional setbacks. While some DJs do 30 events a year - there are multi-ops I've worked with who do 30 events in a weekend. So, what may be 1 issue a year for the little guy is a weekly concern for the more involved business.

Refunds do not necessarily indicate that clients are not satisfied. When there is a lot involved in an event things can change very quickly. Items that were supposed to be available suddenly aren't and it's simple business to refund any over-charge or shortage. Personnel can become ill or otherwise unavailable and if a client paid a premium for someone in particular an adjustment has to be made for any substitutions. Sometimes people pre-pay for items of extras they later cancel.

Complaints also do not mean a client can not be satisfied. Things can and do go wrong but, often there is just a simple misunderstanding that needs to be cleared up. There is also a lot of emotion involved in certain events and people can also incorrectly attribute the impact of their own negative behavior to the service performance of other people. If the mere act of fielding complaints means a business is bad - then why do so many companies put so much effort into customer service? Why is the customer service desk so conspicuous instead of hidden out back somewhere?

We also tend to hear a lot of mythology from DJs with small and safe profiles. These are the guys who say: "I don't do Mitzvahs" or maybe it's weddings, kids events, or outdoor gigs, etc. Whatever the case, they work within a simple formula and get fairly uniform unchallenged results. The bigger the challenge the more issues there are to deal with. Bigger rewards always come with bigger risks.

It is also easy and not very useful to point fingers at those who have no real skin in the game - those DJs who really aren't a business at all but make fun fodder for chat rooms as they send out a handful of newbies for next to no money to whatever low profile gigs they can scrape up. 90% of the horror stories we hear about originate with customers who can't be bothered or don't have the resources to plan an effective event in the first place. I have never read CraigsList and will never care if there are any DJs listed there. I don't know of any serious business person that considers themselves to be competing with yard sales.

Take a look at the video on the ADJA website (iPod wedding). What professional would ever compare themselves to the lowest possible alternative? Is this really the demographic a professional DJ would be pursuing? If the hallmark is "few or no complaints" but that DJ chooses to compare himself only with the lowest of bumbling idiots - then there is real no credibility to the claim.

Lastly, is the issue of how one arrives at a refund. I do not presume that when a customer lodges a complaint that a refund is necessary to resolve that complaint. They may simply wish to be heard on the issue. If you listen to them with the empathy they seek - they will have no need to post it elsewhere. Money is not always what people want. I never offer a refund as a means to resolve an issue. I look for a way to move the relationship forward with something that brings us back together again in a working relationship. Perhaps a better deal on the next event, etc. Either way - I let the customer suggest the remedy and never presume it's about the money.

If the complaint is not legitimate then that is why you have a policy in the first place. You can not satisfy everyone, but most of the time the really big issues happen because we let ego get in the way of real customer appreciation.
 
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I work solo, and with a multi-op.
Every gig I do with the multi-op is treated pretty much like it was my own gig...from both directions.
The boss is very upfront with the client, so they know who they are getting, and what kid of show they have to offer.
In fact, the boss doesn't automatically take first crack at every job, if he isn't booked.
If the client and her ideas seem to be better handled by someone else in the company,
he will suggest someone else for the gig, and pass on it himself.
(I have a rock background and am more low key. He is younger, more upbeat, and spins dance music at clubs. His dad is the oldies king. etc)
And in the end, we NEVER make the decision for the client...so they know what they are getting and they and happy with their choice.
This eliminates most of the problems, and avoids having to offer refunds.
 
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I work solo, and with a multi-op.
Every gig I do with the multi-op is treated pretty much like it was my own gig...from both directions.
The boss is very upfront with the client, so they know who they are getting, and what kid of show they have to offer.
In fact, the boss doesn't automatically take first crack at every job, if he isn't booked.
If the client and her ideas seem to be better handled by someone else in the company,
he will suggest someone else for the gig, and pass on it himself.
(I have a rock background and am more low key. He is younger, more upbeat, and spins dance music at clubs. His dad is the oldies king. etc)
And in the end, we NEVER make the decision for the client...so they know what they are getting and they and happy with their choice.
This eliminates most of the problems, and avoids having to offer refunds.
Pertaining to the Multi Op: You have a Boss? I never knew that you were an employee DJ. :eek:
 
You can't generalize. The existence of complaints, issues, and refunds is normal - that's why every major store has a "customer service department." (snipped)

One of the best posts I've ever seen on the subject. I agree with all of it. I've also noticed the definite camps with complaints. There are those that just want to vent a bit and the multi-op owner is the right place to do it. I believe some, the minority, are actually giving you this feedback in an effort to be helpful.

There's also something else that I've noticed, and I really hate to admit. The physical appearance or the way the DJ carries themselves often has a definite impact on the percentage of complaints. I have one guy, late-50s, and he's heavily experience in radio. Does a beautiful job on events and does everything I've asked of him. Two problems. He takes his mid-20s daughter with him to gigs, they're both overweight, and not attractive. I had 2 complaints on him last year which I'm convinced was triggered, not by the way he did his job, but by physical appearance. I've yet to schedule him for an event this year. I have another guy who did a reasonable job, although he did make too many mistakes, and I had to actually cut him from some jobs he was scheduled in the fall due to excessive complaints (i.e. 2 at the same time). In looking back at it, the way he presented himself (the last complaint said he was on drugs - no way) was always a problem. He wasn't crisp on his dress, has a beginner beard (un-shaven look) and kinda had that general dopey impression. I had to cut him loose.

Now bring it closer to home, I'm 48 and realize there are times where I'm looking a lot like "an old geezer" to a lot of these brides. I've actually had a couple of brides here lately that have made requests for this younger couple over me, and it's probably specifically because of appearance and age. The guy is very tall, good-looking and his wife is a dance instructor, blonde and also very good-looking. Even though they're the least experience of any of my crew, they're the hottest commodity going and our 3/23 bride has been lighting weddingwire bride forums up this week, singing their praises.

Whether we like it or not, this is show business and we've got to sell ourselves, both at the sales pitch and at the event when we deliver. If we can't sell it, then the percentages of complaints are going to rise. Great thread guys.
 
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Pertaining to the Multi Op: You have a Boss? I never knew that you were an employee DJ. :eek:

I've posted numerous times how I work for the son of the guy who got me started in the biz...
AS WELL AS being a solo operation.
But they merely book me and let me do my own show.
I am in no means an "employee DJ".
 
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I've posted numerous times how I work for the son of the guy who got me started in the biz...
AS WELL AS being a solo operation.
But they merely book me and let me do my own show.
I am in no means an "employee DJ".
Then why do you say "Boss"? You like being subservient?