Tough lesson learned

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What's amazing is how out of touch many of you are.

I also connect to the internet when I can so that I too can download requests if I don't happen to have them. It's legal, ethical not a frequent need but, just damn good customer service.

I don't use Media Player however, I see no reason you couldn't - A ceremony usually doesn't require any mixing just starts and fades from a playlist. No different than you guys who use iPods for ceremony or cocktails.

I would also have no issue using my phone to access a track on YouTube and have done it a couple of times at weddings. It is perfectly legal to play YouTube tracks at a private wedding.
 
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rickryan.com said:
I connect to the web at practically every gig and have never had the issues you mentioned. I regularly use amazon to hot-download songs but almost never stream them. To the original poster, I hope you didn't think I was taking a dig at you. You got popped by a microsoft "feature" and I'd like to thank you for sharing the warning. I prefer winamp precisely because of the control you have over the config. MP has too much automatic crap turned on, which you can't turn off.
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You might not have experienced them ... but I would hate to experience them even one time while performing. I've seen an app (and I'm sure most of you have too) cause Windows to completely lock up. I would never risk it.

I'll also state that connecting to someone's Wi-Fi without their consent is illegal - as well as unethical - and may lead to severe problems with your systems. Know exactly what your machine is doing when it is wi-fi active.
 
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ittigger said:
You might not have experienced them ... but I would hate to experience them even one time while performing. I've seen an app (and I'm sure most of you have too) cause Windows to completely lock up. I would never risk it.
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What you are comfortable with is a function of your computer knowledge and tech ability, as well as the backup you have in place to deal with PC crashes. Unfortunately, so many people have become to comfortable with computers that they ignore the breadth of backup solutions they may actually need.

DJs would be wise to remember that in many cases your PC is not only your player - it is often your music library, mixer, and cue. When you're computer dies so does your access to the music if it was stored on the internal drive. You also lose your pre-amp if the software was serving as your audio mixer.

I'll also state that connecting to someone's Wi-Fi without their consent is illegal - as well as unethical - and may lead to severe problems with your systems. Know exactly what your machine is doing when it is wi-fi active.
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I don't know about that - wireless networks "broadcast" their availability and if the network is open (unsecured) I don't think you would have a legal case unless the user had to trespass your physical property boundary to be in range. This is probably why routers are now sold with WPA or WEP already set secure by default. Accessing an open network that is broadcasting into a public space is not the same as hacking a secured access point.

Furthermore, there are more than enough public networks, wifi hot spots, cell phone apps and venue networks to support a DJ legally. Then there is also the mobile broadband option as well. So the inference that DJ internet users are somehow "illegal" or "unethical" is really a chicken sh_____t argument.
 
Proformance said:
I would also have no issue using my phone to access a track on YouTube and have done it a couple of times at weddings. It is perfectly legal to play YouTube tracks at a private wedding.
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Really Bob? Have you read their TOS?

I assume you are not getting paid for these private weddings, otherwise they would constitute commercial use.


I personally don't give a hoot, but if you keep misrepresenting copyright law, and misleading people who come here for advice -- I do have a programmer friend at Google. I could forward a link to your posts, and you and Google can work it out amongst yourselves...
 
SoftJock Rick said:
I hate to say it -- but I have to agree with Canute here (OMG)... :eek:


If I don't have it, and have not listened to it in it's entirety -- it ain't getting played.
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What kind of beer do you drink and what is your address?
Just don't let the Deer near your Beer,
because you know they don't care.
A Bear may chase a Hare
who will surely run out of fear.
That feeling too I may share.
Who wants an animal like that chasing your rear?
You'll surely say "Ohh dear!"
Now if you had a Mare,
The kind that like to jeer,
That would be rare!:cheers:
 
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SoftJock Rick said:
Really Bob? Have you read their TOS?

I assume you are not getting paid for these private weddings, otherwise they would constitute commercial use.


I personally don't give a hoot, but if you keep misrepresenting copyright law, and misleading people who come here for advice -- I do have a programmer friend at Google. I could forward a link to your posts, and you and Google can work it out amongst yourselves...
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You don't know sh____t about the law. You've never studied it. First thing, a TOS or EULA is not a law - it's a contract. Even worse - it's an adhesion contract, one of the weakest forms. A law can not be abridged by contract. You can not contract for something that is illegal, nor can you use a contract to claim a right to which you have been barred by law.

You can not abridge express rights under copyright law with a contract. The TOS can not make a claim for damages where the law expressly prohibits them. The only recourse the TOS would have would be to terminate the subscription or block the IP. There is no legal standing for copyright or trademark damage that occurs when a YouTube track is played at a wedding.

Secondly, you don't understand what commercial use really is. DJs at any and all private events like weddings are by definition (Title 17 US Code) not commercial users. That they get paid is of no consequence because the legal "user" is the bride - not the DJ. Her event is private and expressly exempt from copyright intrusion. It matters not where the recorded music came from.

Hopefully your "programmer friend at Google" is better informed than you are. I'm not the least bit concerned about it.

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sightsandsounds said:
I am absolutely speechless that any professional DJ would think this is legal.
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That's because you're not very well informed.
 
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All I have to say is THANK YOU PRIMECUTS for keeping me out of this conversation....


For my two bits....do really want windows, adobe, java, and other assorted programs updating and dictating reboots while your trying to DJ. And before I get the sh peel about disabling etc....uh...duh.....but anyway.... Tons and tons and tons of issues can arise if your connecting to a foreign access point. Unable to connect to network...but still trying...over and over and over...ding...ding...ding.. Windows has lots of really neat sound effects brides love during their first dance. Couple clicks and even Media player automatically looking for media servers. If you don't have it all figured out don't do it.....if you think you do have it all figured out definitely don't do it. No internet while working..... Keeps it simple.
 
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proformance said:
you don't know sh____t about the law. You've never studied it. First thing, a tos or eula is not a law - it's a contract. Even worse - it's an adhesion contract, one of the weakest forms. A law can not be abridged by contract. You can not contract for something that is illegal, nor can you use a contract to claim a right to which you have been barred by law.

You can not abridge express rights under copyright law with a contract. The tos can not make a claim for damages where the law expressly prohibits them. The only recourse the tos would have would be to terminate the subscription or block the ip. There is no legal standing for copyright or trademark damage that occurs when a youtube track is played at a wedding.

Secondly, you don't understand what commercial use really is. Djs at any and all private events like weddings are by definition (title 17 us code) not commercial users. That they get paid is of no consequence because the legal "user" is the bride - not the dj. Her event is private and expressly exempt from copyright intrusion. It matters not where the recorded music came from.

Hopefully your "programmer friend at google" is better informed than you are. i'm not the least bit concerned about it.

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that's because you're not very well informed.
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oh snap!
 
Proformance said:
What you are comfortable with is a function of your computer knowledge and tech ability, as well as the backup you have in place to deal with PC crashes. Unfortunately, so many people have become to comfortable with computers that they ignore the breadth of backup solutions they may actually need.
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I'm totally comfortable with the PC, on many levels and many OS's - far beyond the basic user. This doesn't mean they won't crash. Crap happens. Period.

Proformance said:
DJs would be wise to remember that in many cases your PC is not only your player - it is often your music library, mixer, and cue. When you're computer dies so does your access to the music if it was stored on the internal drive. You also lose your pre-amp if the software was serving as your audio mixer.
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Agreed. I am prepared for a catastrophic failure. I shall not risk a failure during performance because of one persons wants. There is a difference here.

Proformance said:
I don't know about that - wireless networks "broadcast" their availability and if the network is open (unsecured) I don't think you would have a legal case unless the user had to trespass your physical property boundary to be in range. This is probably why routers are now sold with WPA or WEP already set secure by default. Accessing an open network that is broadcasting into a public space is not the same as hacking a secured access point.
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You might want to look into it then. A wireless networks 'broadcast' has nothing to do with the availability of it TO YOU. Would it be ok to walk into someone's house and watch their cable TV - because they don't have a sign that says private property and the front door is unlocked? Would it be ok to use your neighbors car because he / she left the keys in it (and there's no sign saying don't take it)? Knowingly accessing a wifi without permission, regardless of it in a public space (backyard) or not has the same issues / concerns. Don't forget about the 'bad guys' with wifi's. They love those of you that connect to untrusted / unknown wifi's - so go on, keep doing it. Eventually you will find the right wifi.

Proformance said:
Furthermore, there are more than enough public networks, wifi hot spots, cell phone apps and venue networks to support a DJ legally. Then there is also the mobile broadband option as well. So the inference that DJ internet users are somehow "illegal" or "unethical" is really a chicken sh_____t argument.
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Don't spin my words - my words were using someone else's wifi without permission is illegal and unethical. Using your own, is your own issue. Using one that someone allows you, paid or otherwise, is also your own issue. Using one without permission - just because it's there - is not right and you should not be suggesting it.
 
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ittigger said:
You might not have experienced them ... but I would hate to experience them even one time while performing. I've seen an app (and I'm sure most of you have too) cause Windows to completely lock up. I would never risk it.
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I'm an IT guy by trade. Not saying an expert IT guy but perhaps a bit more knowledge than the average joe. That said, I turned off auto updates and uninstalled virus protection viruses from my DJ laptops. As for apps that I use, I am consistent on what can be run from these laptops. Also, as for internet connectivity, I have specific websites that I use and trust. There's no issue IMHO of being web connected during a gig, just keep it biz oriented. While I've had zero cases like you fear I do have at least one other machine on standby, ready to take over. Can't say I can remember the last time I had dead air during a gig.

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Bob, I'd like to congratulate you. Can't say that I remember any thread in recent memory where you got completely sideways with every single person who participated. I'm thinking you deserve nomination for some kind of award or something.
 
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Rick,

It seems like you are more educated than the average person who uses the computer to DJ. You may get by without an oops being hooked to the NET. If you use your primary and backup as DJ computers only and only install the software required and don't surf the NET, your computer may not take control of a gig on you.

I, however won't take the chance of being hooked to the NET while DJing. That does not keep me from using an I-phone to download a song and transfer it to the computer while playing. I use the I-phone all the time to check lyrics. I have only had a request for one song that I did not have that I was willing to play Cowboys and Angels), I have it now. I have had dozens of request for songs that had to many words or very foul lyrics and they were not played. All the requesters of the bad songs were offered another request as long as it is clean. Only one was not happy with that offer, he was removed from the dance for his behaivor later in the night by the host.

Ray J.
 
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My standard computer set up is as follows..

Main PC with music and karaoke loaded on the internal hard drive.

One laptop, ready to go with music loaded on an external hard drive. This one is on-line via wi-fi air card. My wife mans this computer so she can keep a "rolling" playlist loaded in case the PC crashes. She can also check for lyrics at lyrics.com and can download from amazon on the fly if needed.

Third computer is also a laptop but it is mainly used to control the lighting software. It also has the DJ software, SamDJ, loaded and within a moment can be hooked to the external HD to take over if both of the other computers crash.
 
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rickryan.com said:
I'm an IT guy by trade.
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I am too.

rickryan.com said:
Also, as for internet connectivity, I have specific websites that I use and trust. There's no issue IMHO of being web connected during a gig, just keep it biz oriented.
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Trusted websites is one thing. Untrusted wifi's / communication is another. These DO have the ability to affect your machines (especially without system protection measures). I'd NEVER be on any network, much less the Internet, without anti virus.

Even with 'consistent apps', problems (freezing / problems while downloading, etc) can happen. Why risk it? (this is not a personal attack).

My thoughts on this are that your 'work' machine should never be online during a performance.
 
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rickryan.com said:
By the way as a side note, So Cal............please stick around and ignore the potshots that we all seem to take from time to time. This forum benefits from your participation.
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He has been around since 2008! He is the Rotissiere Chicken Guy! Ask him to show you his original Avatar.
 
ittigger said:
Even with 'consistent apps', problems (freezing / problems while downloading, etc) can happen. Why risk it? (this is not a personal attack).
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Freezing, etc isn't really that big an issue to me. It's annoying but, not a huge crisis. "Backup" to me is a CD player connected to the same mixer. It doesn't mean another laptop waiting in a bag under the table. I may have one there but, my immediate backup is a live CD player and the 2nd laptop is for major damage - like a system that gets dropped or burns out.

My thoughts on this are that your 'work' machine should never be online during a performance.
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My thoughts on this are exactly the opposite. My work machine is all about work - I can be playing background music at a trade show and answering emails or adding receipts to Quickbooks all at the same time. It makes no sense to me to buy a powerful computer and then leave it to do just one simple task like play music. The key is to have enough machine to do the work you want done, and then know it's limits. Learn what it can and can't do well so you'll know how it responds to stress and issues.

On the other end, when I want a laptop dedicated to one purpose, like a karaoke player or background music server I buy the LEAST amount of computer necessary to do the job. That often means an older refurbished machine for around $200. However, even these I find can handle quite a bit simultaneously.

Not every DJ gig is an intense dance floor focused event. I like to be able to get other things done at events that have a lot of down time or are just not very intense or demanding.
 
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