What do you use: Serato, Virtual Dj or other ?
- Thread starter Djvladiwarbucks
- Start date
I am certainly awaiting your results Canute...
Traktor won't do it AFAIK. They sync markers will be off. It goes by BPM, so all the markers would normally be the exact distance from one another. Song like those are done live, without a sequencer or quantizer. So it's almost impossible for a program like VDJ or Traktor to get them right on the beats. I could be wrong, they may use a system like Mixmeister that looks for downbeats, but in my experience, they haven't used a system like that.
Well, I think if you don't know what you are doing then it shouldn't matter what tools or software you use. You won't miss quality or features you never use or rely upon.
It does matter though to people who know what they are doing. An accomplished turntablist will insist on direct drive not belt driven turntables, and most often a Technics 1200MKII or better. The CD or DVD player will be the one that has the features they need to accomplish certain effects, or the response time that keeps pace with their speed. Software is no different. It has to perform at the same speed and level of effect as the DJ using it.
It took a while for CD player makers to catch on to why a DJ would care about instant start - they didn't realize that the best mixes are dropped live from the first beat. It's only the beginners who need all that time to match beats in the headphones and then fade in.
Now given that everything is digital there's no real excuse for software that doesn't handle video and karaoke files as easily as it does audio.
“Perfectionism is a refusal to let your self move ahead. It is a loop - an obsessive, debilitating closed system that causes you to get stuck in the details of what you are doing and to lose sight of the whole."
You are right - that pretty much sums up OTS. Their perfectionism has made them obsolete by virtue of all the other products which have moved forward (with or without errors) to serve the needs of the marketplace. For all their claims of high standards the one standard they lack entirely is progress.
Depends on what you wish to accomplish Bob...
For example kroakie -- I don't like it, I don't like the manus strong arm tactics, so I don't do it -- simple as that. Will I do it in the future? I can't look into the future, so I can't answer that...
I sell software to mostly wedding DJs -- why should I care about beat matching? If you started beat matching at a wedding I was at, I'd go out and have a smoke -- I do not care about your abilities, I just want to have a good time, and hear some good music. Save your BS for the Van Halen concert...
Depends on what you wish to accomplish Bob...
For example kroakie -- I don't like it, I don't like the manus strong arm tactics, so I don't do it -- simple as that. Will I do it in the future? I can't look into the future, so I can't answer that...
I sell software to mostly wedding DJs -- why should I care about beat matching? If you started beat matching at a wedding I was at, I'd go out and have a smoke -- I do not care about your abilities, I just want to have a good time, and hear some good music. Save your BS for the Van Halen concert...
That's kind of a weird and maybe telling reply, Rick. What exactly is it that you want to accomplish? Let me challenge your reply with a few obvious stand outs of "programmer's arrogance:"
1. Since when are weddings (and the Mtv era brides & grooms who book them) not able to discern a quality mix?
2. Is it not possible to beat mix a set of music you would stay inside to enjoy or does ability itself tick you off too much?
3. Is your personal gripe with disc makers a good reason to deprive all Rockit users and their clients of karaoke features?
4. Is a lack of interest in visual content on your part a good reason not to offer video features?
5. If current pro features are excluded at your singular preference and whim, what defines it as a "Pro" DJ software?
So, I go back to the notion of "perfectionism" and would ask you or OTS or anyone else who thinks their software might be perfect to consider when it was perfect. It is only the "when" that males a software relevant.
Interesting thoughts Bob...
I market to a certain group of people -- niche as it is. I'm sorta guessing yer not in there, as I don't recall your name in my sales list.
My software has video built in, but no kroakie. I made a decision at the time, and I'm standing with that decision, until I might change my mind, if things cool down in the karaoke world.
I write my software, based upon feedback I get from my users, and my experience. I do not do it to sell to anyone off the street. I do not write garbage to pacify bedroom DJs. I write it for people who know what they're doing.
If you want to mix -- lets go head to head via video. If you beat me, I owe you a beer, if not you owe me one. Fair?
You're aware aren't you that KJs at weddings and other private mobile DJ events are beyond the reach of these schemes the karaoke disc makers are pulling at public venues?
What would be an example of garbage?
The problem with perfectionism is how it actually limits your potential:
"Instead of creating freely and allowing errors to reveal themselves later as insights, we get mired in getting the details right - correcting our originality into a uniformity that lacks passion and [innovation].”
How many takes will you need to get that video right? We've already been down this road - I don't make studio mixes and then try to pass them off at gigs as "DJ skillz." I've edited both audio and video for broadcast - and that's not what it means to be a DJ. If you're really DJing there's no preview, and no re-edit.
Is there any software that can go around the bend the way a live DJ can... beat mixing on every other beat to get from like 098 Bpm to 185 Bpm and vice versa?
Bob, I don't believe there is any software that can replace the results of a Skilled Mixer/Turntablist. As you have said before, a skilled DJ should be able to mix music on thge fly with no pre edits and previews. For me, I use the "slip cue" method, except now in Digital Form to mix unlike beats. With Traktors 4 Decks, one can splice in a beat that on one deck to better bridge two songs that are of vastly different beats.
I do know though, that with they Pioneer MEP 7000, if I make a playlist to run on Auto Play from a Flash Drive, that machine makes flawless seamless mixes. in some cases I wonder if it actually makes better Auto Mixes than Traktor. So to answer your question, I am not sure how seamless it would be for A DJ Software to do. Depending on the songs to be mixed, I would place my bets on the MEP 7000
I would think that if desired, software could be made to emulate any mixing style. The only difference is the software can't read an audience (or at least not as yet), so it won't be as adaptable, spontaneous or creative. But if you wanted to match a specific mix style, I have no doubt it could be programed.
The Pioneer MEP has several Mix Styles. The main job is in the selection of the music for the live audience. Which is what you are saying, I think. No machine can replace the human DJ interaction.
Yes .. the technical details of the mix patterns can be programmed if someone spent the time .. "feeling" it can't .. at least until artificial intelligence makes some leaps.
I have to say, and I don't have a big head or anything, but I don't think there is software that could emulate my style. Sure, there is software that can mix, and probably software could do the live mashups I do... but you won't get the creative types of mixing that I do, and that really defines my style. Not all of us just mix one song to the next to the next, etc. For instance, I use 4 decks and 12 samplers when I dj, not to mention a ton of effects. I don't believe a computer can come up with the mixes I make, and I can't be alone. While I think I am a pretty good DJ (some say great), yhere are much better DJs than me, and I even know some of them personally. I honestly think that any software would have a tough time trying to emulate creativity.
I was asking more about the recognition of measure. If you slow down the slower track and speed up the faster track you can often get the faster track to be exactly twice the BPM of the much slower track - creating a handy shortcut from one end of the scale to the other. So, in theory does the software know when to skip a beat? I see it happen all the time on subscription services - where they list the BPM as 75 when in reality it is or perceived to be 150 and vice versa. I just assume they used a beat counter and not their ears. This is where I think software can fail miserably.
An example would be in the mid/late 80's when we half the pop spectrum was 100bpm and below, and another segement was well up near 180bpm. I remember one club where "I want Your Sex" (~90bpm) and "I'm So Excited" (~185bpm) were popular favorites. It was pretty easy to mix the rhythm breaks of these two song together and with a little masking or an effect drop you could get a great mix from the high end back down to the then emerging hip-hop tempos. I doubt a software would ever see those two songs as potentially compatible by nesting the measures.
I understand and agree on the first paragraph. Yes I have seen software mislabel the BPM by either doubling it or as 50/75 % of the original beat.
As for Traktor, for it to be correctly done, you have to bring up/down the BPM on the track playing, then hit the sync button and it will equal the second song with the manually set value of the first song. With the MEP it does it automatically, no special setting required. I will try these soon on both machines and report back.
Just to be clear .. current software can't hold a candle to the skills of a good DJ. I was only saying it was just a matter of programming to get close. Not that the cost might be worth it, it just could be done. No one needs to worry any time soon.
Just for the record (hehe, that was a pun I think)
Almost all DJ software uses the same algorithm for handling BPM. It was written by a guy called Olli way back when.
He did a fine job, but it's not perfect. Upbeats and downbeats can be interpreted differently by the software -- hence the double or half values. So lets say you want to sync a song at 118 bpm, with a song at 80 bpm. If the 80 bpm is actually double, yer gonna get a hose job!
See how screwed up this can get...? It can be a train wreck easily.
As Steve said above -- it's up to the DJ to do their job.
Almost all DJ software uses the same algorithm for handling BPM. It was written by a guy called Olli way back when.
He did a fine job, but it's not perfect. Upbeats and downbeats can be interpreted differently by the software -- hence the double or half values. So lets say you want to sync a song at 118 bpm, with a song at 80 bpm. If the 80 bpm is actually double, yer gonna get a hose job!
See how screwed up this can get...? It can be a train wreck easily.
As Steve said above -- it's up to the DJ to do their job.
If you know your songs you will be able to see the error in BPM before you even cue up the songs. You can also edit it while in cue.
9 times out of 10 I don't even really look at the BPM. I do it by ear and by memory. I know pretty much off the top of my head the BPM of 99% of the songs I typically play. Sometimes I may look for other things (I have my lists sorted by BPM, in various folders or crates), but for the most part I have memorized my songs. What the BPM says on the screen, and what my ears tell me, are often two very different things. ESPECIALLY (pretty much as a rule) with acapellas.