Are the Big Guns good for the industry?

[Dude Walker]

:brave:

I pose a very unusual question here coming from me. In each of our relative market areas, what does the floral rate come to in most cases. My guess is there is minimal differences from Brainerd Minnesota, Brownsville Texas, Bellingham Washington or Ladera California? For that matter Tuxedo Rentals or Wedding Gown prices. I hope some here get my train of thought here. I feel its more about our own sales limitations, and public perception that allows for a certain price ceiling in any one market.

Jon, awesome question!!! How could that be done? I would be "in" on trying to get to that info!

Were's Dude Walker? He just might already have the "statistics"

Here's the shorty bus version...:brave:

 

[Jon Tuck]

okay so add the DJ into those numbers Dude and allow us details on credibility of the DJ numbers if possible. As it appears certain things have a standard almost across the board rate.

 

[Jeff Romard]

As it appears certain things have a standard almost across the board rate.

You must be reading it different than I do Jon according to the charts Brownsville Texas is about half of the average and in most cases 1/3 the cost of Lareda California

What would be interesting is a comparison of services instead of goods. Even with the difference in the different markets Dude has shown goods start with a "real" value you can see what you are getting where services are more of an assumed value until they are provided. At that time depending on the quality the value rises or falls

Heres one for you in my market the best wedding photographer doing a one camera shoot and offering a basic package is about $1000.00. In alot of markets you couldnt get a guy to take polaroids for that price
You can get a good photographer for half that price offering the same package

 

[Dude Walker]

Jon, Jeff...to all,

I have serious reservations about the accuracy of the service data that I'm about to share.

Almost every other entity within the Wedding Industry uses a "till" "cash register" (POP) in their respective commerce. Service industries have an atmosphere that could be conducive to "looser" reporting of revenue exchange which could potentially skew the data.

This data & the data earlier a few posts back can be obatined via http://www.theweddingreport.com/

PLEASE NOTE: I do not feel confident that the service numbers aren't compromised. i.e.: Reception band/disc jockey & Videographers have a striking similarity to Wedding Dresses.


Caution: Due to the nature of the similarties between tangible products and select services, this research data accuracy is being offered as "take it or leave it".

The Wedding Report cites Additional Resources including but not limited to:

Business Data and Statistics
http://www.firstgov.gov/Business/Business_Data.shtml

Free Economic, Demographic & Financial Data
http://www.economy.com/freelunch/default.asp

State Information
http://www.firstgov.gov/Agencies/State_and_Territories.shtml

U.S. Small Business Administration
http://www.sba.gov/

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

Not choosing sides...

The fee is rather low if there is any intended plans to marketing "any" idea to the masses of brides.

Coke & Pepsi are dominant forces in the beverage realm...yet they advertise to move more product.

In reality...to raise public awareness it's going to take bucks to promote...where will the bucks come from...? Annuals fees...?

Dude,

No argument there. I just don't see the need for the money to come as a DONATION from me. I use that word because I would be paying for something that, if I wished, I could get for free. If they wish to build their ad coffers with my money, then they will have to offer something of value in return. As of this moment, they (he) offer nothing, and there is still nothing in writing that specifically states the use of the incoming funds, and in what percentages. Sorry to repeat myself, but they (he) are requesting fees, and giving no specific guarantees of services- and CAN'T, at least at this time. You wouldn't accept those conditions from other service orgs, so why would you here?

An aside to you Dude: Saw your article in the DJ News, and it was a good one! To be the fly though: I don't know if bar DJs can be considered "entry level" on the same tier as schools. In my area, there are club DJs that make more in a night then PM will ever see for one of his events. There are many levels in the bar and club biz, just as in events. However, all and all I learned a lot. I've never done a school, and knew nothing about that end of it. Thanks!

 

[Dude Walker]

Joe, thank you for the kind words.

To clarify, bar DJs and Club DJs are essentially different categories of DJs.

It is not uncommon for Club DJs to be paid more for 4-5 hours of work on a house system than that of a bar DJs that provides music library, sound system & lighting for a total contract price of $50 bucks plus beer.

The bar DJ see $10 plus beer as good money. When in reality their long term costs of doing the show negate the $10/hr wage.

Pure & simple...bars know it...and exploit those ignorant enough to be exploited.

 

[Guest]

I get WAY more than $10 per hour at my club gig...

Way way more... However, I use all of my own gear. I set up and break down only once a year... when the big tourist season comes (Memorial day) the live band comes in and I move all my equipment out.

I then move to the dock outside with my "gig bench", but I still make the same amount of money... in fact more, because I work Sunday nights during the summer.

When the new club is built (after labor day this summer) I have a raise in my contract. I don't feel one bit guilty, because I give them a lot more that they originally asked for and they really appreciate it.

I've been told that some other DJ's have approached them with a lesser price, but they want me... I will do just about anything to keep them happy as a result.

Dude, you're assessment for the Brainerd area is right on the money. I'm a little higher, but only to keep the price shoppers away.

 

[Dude Walker]

I get WAY more than $10 per hour at my club gig...

Tyrone,

I applaud those that do!

I find it unfortunate that some MDJs have been losing their long term bar contracts to $50 + BEER. ($50 being the example...not an absolute)

Purely hypothetical and no inference to your abilities:

What if you lost your current bar/club gig based on price? For instance a DJ that is willing to provide gear, music and a warm body for $50 + beer per night?

There is a local Fargo company that has been pitching bars & schools to call around and get the lowest price...then they'll meet or beat the lowest price.

I know MDJs that have been 8-10 years into some bars & schools losing their long term contracts to extremely low per event pricing. Every one of these MDJs have been stunned that they've lost institutional clients. Something that they believed would never happen.


So again I ask the question, what if you lost your current bar/club gig based on price?

Do you have a fall back plan for events?

Does your bar/club represent a large portion of your yearly bottom line?

 

[Guest]

Yep... I'd be up a creek...

I'd have to sell my gear and travel. Not such a bad outcome. But, not everyone could do that, and I understand what you're saying.

I'm basing most of my opinion on the relationship I've had with my club. I seriously doubt that ANYONE could do what I do for them at a price that would even be resonable... but you never know.

I'd have to walk away from the business if I lost it. They already know what other DJ's are like. Over the years, they've had lots of entertainment and they know what they're getting for their buck (crossing my fingers).

 

[Dude Walker]

Tyrone,

Thank you for your candid response.

 

[Fred Wright]

Dude,

I enjoyed your article in Disc Jockey News as well.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe, thank you for the kind words.

To clarify, bar DJs and Club DJs are essentially different categories of DJs.

It is not uncommon for Club DJs to be paid more for 4-5 hours of work on a house system than that of a bar DJs that provides music library, sound system & lighting for a total contract price of $50 bucks plus beer.


Pure & simple...bars know it...and exploit those ignorant enough to be exploited.

First, though there is a difference between the two, it's basically due to venue size, not just money. At my smallest venue, a bar/restaurant and my lowest priced place, I make 60.00/ HOUR, NET. That's my LEAST paying show, and I have six venues/week. I also do private events.

I have also been, over 30 years, part owner, manager, and bartender. It's not that bars exploit ignorance. A strictly private event DJ works for clients who expect to take a one time loss. A bar, on the other hand, is a business, and expects to turn a profit. A well negotiated commitment between bar and DJ means that the bar pays the DJ as much as they can offer and STILL TURN A GOOD PROFIT from the show night. This profit must reflect an increase above and beyond what they take in on non-entertainment nights to justify having the DJ in the first place. In other words, the DJ should get a percentage of THE INCREASE IN PROFITS, not the gross. Example:


No Entertainment: Bar sales are 350.00 gross

With the DJ: Bar sales are 1000.00 gross

The DJ will get paid a percentage of the NET increase ( 650.oo minus costs )


In this example, ( using very low numbers) the DJ is worth around
175.oo to the bar.

Again, a decent restaurant/bar does WAY more than this in both the total sales and the increase for entertainment.


We may not like it, but it's good and fair business. The key is to make sure the business increases dramatically through more customers staying later while we're there...

 

[Dude Walker]

At my smallest venue, a bar/restaurant and my lowest priced place, I make 60.00/ HOUR, NET. That's my LEAST paying show, and I have six venues/week. I also do private events.

It appears that you are doing better than many MDJs in our market.

Bars simply drill the DJs in our market to get a price that keeps the bar profitable. -or- Resort to idle threats to break existing contracts with DJs.

I personally, do not pursue bars due to the sheer over-abundance of DJs that have created a "bar"-buyers market.

11 regional companies that I personally know have a lost their long term contracts and have been replaced by lower priced entertainment. Ironically, even the lower priced entertainment has been replaced by even more lower priced entertainment.

Here's the quirky part. There are DJs in our market that make more per evening as a house DJ standing in a built in booth, using bar gear and music than some MDJs toting their gear into bar venues...

When an hourly paid house DJ makes more than a gear toting DJ in the same market...somethings wrong with that picture.

Please remember...these are not well known house DJs by any stretch of the imagination.

It's probably the best example of inequity that exists.

People with ZERO monetary investment are making more than DJs that have a substantial investment into gear, lighting, music and a vehicle.

...and every entry level DJ thinks they've got a better slant on things...

WOW!? (curiously furled eyebrows)

 

[Guest]

I think I understand...

However, I work a bar (night club) where they occasionally take a loss with me being there. On winter weekends when the weather is bad, or the "house" is under capacity, they still want entertainment in the club. I've had a few evenings where there were 6 customers and I still worked at my normal wage.

I know my experience is somewhat unique. From your typical club in a down town setting, and my club at a resort, the requirement for entertainment is on going. Then, during the summer, there is entertainment EVERY night.

I sometimes fee guilty that they pay me so much for having very few customers. I guess the relationship I have with them is very special in their eyes... and I'm real happy with that.

Next spring, when the new club is built, I'm sure they will market more to the locals rather than the resort customers, and that should fill the place up nicely.

 

[Dude Walker]

I've had a few evenings where there were 6 customers and I still worked at my normal wage.

As well you should!

The liqour suppliers...
The food suppliers...
The ultility company...
The insurance company...
The bank/mortgage company...
The liquor license...
The bar staff...
The refrigeration man...

All get paid the same for their respective things if the bar is full or empty...

Albeit, you sell more beer and food when the bar is full...the contract cost for these items doesn't diminish when you use less. In fact, in most cases...it increases.

I sometimes fee guilty that they pay me so much for having very few customers.

Why?

In the grand scheme...haven't you just income averaged your events over the course of the year? Do you think the bar shed one brain byte of guilt over making a profit on your expertise during the busy nights?

Whether the bar is full...or empty...you still bring the same knowledge and experience. Which is "oodles" more than a newbie.

That has to count for something...

If if doesn't...we are little more than scavengers that just got lucky finding a little piece of meat to keep us going until the next event!

I wish you continued success in your bar endeavor.

Curious...

Is there anything that you can do to promote butts in the seat to increase the slow nights.

Contests...etc... Maybe you've already thought about it. Just curious?

 

[Guest]

Yep... and I've shared them with management...

...but, (I want to be polite here) they don't want to actively target the general public. Their main concern is aimed at the resort guests... that will change with the new club (I think/hope). Currently, they do almost NO media promotion.

I've been pushing more promotional ideas on them... but need to remember my status with them. After all, I'm only the DJ. One thing I've done on my own is to promote myself to the customers as a magician. I've been getting more and more requests from guests to perform for them.

I think this will gain popularity with the new club as well. So far, I get anywhere from $10 to $40 extra in tips per night for performing magic. And, I have fun doing it... so it's win win. The only problem is when it gets busy... I don't have time to do tricks.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

1) It appears that you are doing better than many MDJs in our market.


2) When an hourly paid house DJ makes more than a gear toting DJ in the same market...somethings wrong with that picture.

3) Please remember...these are not well known house DJs by any stretch of things

Same answer to 1&2, AND A NEGATION TO 3:


Name recognition: Although I am a not a known name or "Big Gun" in the industry nationwide, I AM a biggie in a 25-35 mile radius. I'm guessing the same for the DJs running the house equipment in your area. If one has developed a rep for packing a place, what they have to do ( hauling their own equipment) is of no interest to the venue owner- just the sales....

 

[Dude Walker]

Joe,

There are venues in our area that do not have a house system. They require entertainment to provide their own.

It's just odd that a house DJ can make more than an entertainer providing all the gear, music & talent...as opposed to a DJ supplying just talent.

Regarding house DJ noteriety: Oddly, of all the house systems in our area...not one has a DJ personality that shares street credit noteriety that exists much beyond bar regulars.

Ironically, there are MDJs & KJs with more street noteriety getting paid less in some cases.

No a point of contention...just an observation.

 

[Guest]

Accurate observation...

I am only know in and around Breezy Point, and not much beyond. I have customers that come up once a year that always rave at my entertainment, but very few folks from out side this area have ever heard of me. The regulars and once a year guests think I'm gold... Hmmmm

So, here's a question: If the above is really the case (and I've had people from the Twin Cities tell me that I'm the best DJ they've ever seen, when they're here on vacation) then, are these people lying to me and just trying to yank my chain, or are they not telling others about the DJ at the resort (which is why I wonder about the small crowds in the winter)? The crowds are amazingly big in the summer (on the party dock), but is that just normal traffic for any music show (here I am questioning myself)? Then I wonder why I'm not getting requests for shows (weddings) in the Twin Cities from people who've seen me at the resort?

 

[JoeChartreuse]

So, here's a question: If the above is really the case (and I've had people from the Twin Cities tell me that I'm the best DJ they've ever seen, when they're here on vacation) then, are these people lying to me and just trying to yank my chain, or are they not telling others about the DJ ........ Then I wonder why I'm not getting requests for shows (weddings) in the Twin Cities from people who've seen me at the resort?

Here's part of the answer, and you're not going to believe the idiocy of it:

I went through the same thing only to discover that my regulars never figured I would do private events!


Although I thought it would just be common sense to most, this wasn't the case. They never made the association between bar and event.


When working as a Karaoke Host (my preference over straight DJing) I just added "Available For Private Parties" to the bottom of my song slips. Although this was already on my cards, I found that more of my slips were ending up in pockets than cards. I started putting a supply of my cards in those little display holders and leaving them by the door for people to grab on impulse, rather than waitng to be asked for them.

THEN I went to a bulk mailer, who sent out 10,000 small fliers, just in the area that I'm known ( at cost of 495.00) These were not targeted, as my corporate mailings are, just a huge splat. This got the non-corporate events rolling for me.....