So far, so good on this forum

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toqer

New DJ
Feb 1, 2007
426
0
53
So most every other karaoke forum i've been to, i've always gotten the feeling there was a group of folks that were chasing me off. It didn't matter if I was talking about autOKdj or my video streaming. I'm sorry, i'm not a bot, and I feel the need to share my experiences and talk about what I want to do for karaoke. Is that a crime?

At karaoke-forum.com I got attacked plenty of times, got called a "sleazy spamming salesman" by this one guy with such terrible spelling and punctuation I snapped. It was sort of a combo of the bad spelling and the number of times he had attacked me that made me blow my top.

It wasn't just the attacks that got to me either, a lot of these other forums say "Don't go there" when we start talking about PC based karaoke in general.

I sort of got the same treatment over at karaokeplayground.uk. Got into a fight with Sax and autOKdj was born. They were more than happy to let his croonies say "A new version of S&D's is out" but anytime I posted, I got swatted down.

Here though it's different. Steve Miller kind of made me look twice last week. He told me he believes I am the one to take on STLR and SC. That post was followed by a few other posters agreeing.

I've also seen REALLY SMART people taking a look at autOKdj from this forum. It blew my mind that were trying to run it under wine/linux. Where have these people been? I've only found a few people so far that like hacking together stuff for karaoke. I did desktop support for various companies for 10 years, so I have a really great appriciation for the time it takes to wrestle with odd OS's and getting them to play right.

All in all, my experience here so far has been good. Maybe this is where 2007 is going to happen for me.

-------

2007 I'm planning a counterattack against SC and STLR. The first thing we need to do is gain publicity for our side of the argument, I.E. PC based karaoke is *fair use* so long as there's no piracy involved.

2004 there was an article written about me in the New York Times. I'm still in touch with the author, and he's expressed interest in an article of this type.

I'd also like to start a peer review system. Please, anybody, come inspect my system, compare it to the CDG's I have on hand. I'll do the same for you, and we'll go from there. If we can get a group of people that run straight, it will be a powerful lobbying force.

I already know this is going to attract the attention of SC and STLR, but i'm also hoping it will attract the attention of the Electronic Freedom Foundation and possibly get a class action started for us.

A lot of the people i've talked to think what SC and STLR are trying to pull is BS. These people range from the AOL/Winamp team to some of the karaoke producers themselves. These people have been behind me because I do the right thing, and if you're doing the right thing i'm sure they'll be behind you too.

I'm also in real close proximity to Robin Gross, CDG fair use author. I'm thinking of paying her a visit, cash in hand to help work on a gameplan for this years legal issues.

-----

We're going to be releasing a lot of new technology in 2007. I'm nagging the hell out of my friends to give me a hand with this. We haven't named the product yet, but basically if you're using a winamp based hosting program, you can have a box sitting there automatically making video of your singers like this... There would be no need for an internet connection at the venue. Just bring the box in, plug in the camera, configure your wireless networking a bit and let it sit there and record. Later on when you get back to an internet connection, your magic video box will begin uploading video, all automatically edited per performance.

There's also going to be various enhancements to the autOKdj plugin, more online vendors, more enhancements to the frontend, hopefully the effects system will get added in there too. Still free and uncrippled quality stuff. As always, if you're a C++ dev we can always use a hand.

My writing hands are tired. Thanks for readin.

--toq
 
I Can Draw So Many Parallels

I am the one to take on STLR and SC.

Though I don't really know what you are referring to, you sound like the right stuff.

Here, don't forget these:

:tank: :cannon:
 
1) It wasn't just the attacks that got to me either, a lot of these other forums say "Don't go there" when we start talking about PC based karaoke in general.



2) I've also seen REALLY SMART people taking a look at autOKdj from this forum. It blew my mind that were trying to run it under wine/linux.

--toq


1) I can't understand that. You and I are on opposite ends of the field- Me being militantly disc based, and you being a software guy. OK. Why would there be any drama? We should get bent out of shape because we do things differently? I'm thinkin' no.....

Besides, my way's better............JUST FREAKIN' KIDDING!


2) I can understand the attempt with Linux. Windows became the standard, and it's very easy to use, but it's by no means a superior operating system. Hell, Windows was the ONLY system affected by Y2K. Not DOS, Linux. Pick, or any others. Windows doesn't even fully erase something in one or even two steps. It's slower than Linux, etc... etc... As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for the communication and software compatability I'd still be running Menuworks in DOS, and loving it...
 
Vinyl Spinner, Sound Choice & Stellar Records (Pop Hits Monthly) have both released statements regarding electronic copying of their CDGs. (Details available in this thread.) There are lots of differing opinions in the thread, but I think overall it's a pretty civil debate - the arguments are educated & well thought out & not just emotional responses that I've seen in other forums.

Toq, I'm glad you found a forum that you finally feel comfortable in. I've lurked on a lot of the same forums you've posted on and most were not kind to you at all, my friend.
 
Glad to see you like it over here Toqer. I've spent a little time on the Sound Choice boards. All I can say is WOW!!! They're a different bunch over there.
 
Welcome. I use Sax N Dotty for basic karaoke shows and Virtual DJ when I want to mix in music videos as shown here.

Everything I use is legal and stored at home. I am a single op as well.
 
So today I sent off letters to two of my press contacts. New York Times Tech columnist Tim Gnatek and Vrinda Normand at the San Jose Metro. Here's a copy of what I sent them.

Not sure if this would interest you, but maybe you can pass it around the office.

I think I mentioned before about the trickle down effect piracy has had on 7 Bamboo in the last 2 years. We've tried complaining to city council, the police, anyone we can. All sorts of new karaoke venues using pirated karaoke have popped up, and we've felt the competition.

It's all come to a head now with this recent press release from 2 of the largest karaoke manufacturers. They want to outlaw the practice of running karaoke from a PC.

http://www.karaokestar.com/lapharkarsys.html

No doubt piracy is a bad problem for karaoke right now. For a time 7Bamboo was one of the few karaoke venues in San Jose. Lately I’ve seen folks with laptops and karaoke libraries in excess of 100,000 karaoke songs. It just doesn’t add up that someone who’s been in business for 6 months would have $200,000 worth of karaoke.

7 Bamboo runs from a PC but doesn’t pirate karaoke. We only keep songs on the hard drive that we have an original, purchased CD for. We have 4700 songs spread out over 300 CD’s. The reason we went to PC in the first place was our DKK karaoke collection.

The DKK karaoke was the first US karaoke mfgr 15 years ago. Bamboo purchased their DKK collection about the time it came out. Shortly after it’s creation, the DKK company got out of the karaoke business, so the CDG’s were out of print. After 10 years of use, our collection was in bad shape, irreplaceable, so we went to PC to preserve our property.

The whole argument that the karaoke Mfgr’s give for going after PC based karaoke setups is they did not give us permission to format shift, which is covered under fair use laws. Stellar Records and Sound Choice argues that fair use doesn’t extend to a commercial environment when “Sync Licensing” (Synchronization of video/audio) is involved. Me and many other legit PC based karaoke jocks disagree with this notion.

I wrote a pretty good article on why I think this is happening on 7bamboo.com

http://www.7bamboo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=303&mode=flat&order=0&thold=-1

Anyways, what do you think? Would it make a good story? You could get congressman Mike Honda (bamboo regular) to comment on it.

Thanks again,

--Robert Cortese
 
I think i'll pay my local city council a visit and bark about the threats Stellar and Sound Choice is doing too. Maybe they can make a city ordinance that will supercede and protect anyone with a 1:1 copy ratio (read, not a pirate)
 
Ok so I heard back from the SJ metro. Still waiting on the NYT

They want to do a story. This gives me an idea....

How about everyone else that's in the same corner as me give their local newspaper editor an email? It's worth a shot guys, we can do this.

--toq
 
Toker: I don't know if you're a fool or a brave man or a little of both but if they print that SC and Stellar are going to be on you like white on rice. Chat boards are one thing, but the main stream press is quite another. Start planning your legal case now.
 
I'm just not content to sit around arguing semantics with a bunch of people who don't know what the hell they're talking about. It's pointless. Why is it on here and every other forum people want to play psuedo lawyer trying to interpet the law?

I feel compelled to do something about it. Rest of you should too if you really feel that SC and STLR are wrong on this issue. I got nothing to hide, and I have no problem getting mud slung in STLR's and SC's faces.

So I don't know if you still want to call me a fool/brave or not. I'm just sick of seeing people do nothing about it except spin doctor a bunch of useless posts on forums, pointing fingers.

Thank you

--toq
 
Toqer's right... why should we sit around grousing about what's right and what's wrong and do something to fix it...

It's not right for SC and Stlr to tell us we can't use a tool that has proven to be better than the old out of date methods.

It's not right to be considered a thief if you have bought your cdgs from legit distributors...

It makes no difference if you use the disc directly or as a file on a computer as long as its one disc per computer.

I for one will join toqer in his/our fight for pc rights. I'm burning my jewel cases to solidify my stand.
 
Why burn the jewel cases? I don't see that as some kind of a stand! just a lot of smelly burned plastic.

Toger,

I agree that none of us are lawyers and really don't know the first thing about "interpeting" the law.

I also agree that you are correct in challanging SC and Stellar. But I honestly think you can get it moving faster if you make a direct challange to each of them by letter. Putting your arguments here or in the local news paper isn't going to make it happen. Making a direct challenge will get their attention much faster!

Give me your name, address and the location of your shows and I will pitch in and write the letter for you, so you don't have to put forward the extra effort. I think I can word it in such a way as to grab their attention and perhaps get you some movement from their end in the next month or so.
 
Oh yeah the same thing that happened when women burned their bras, a lot of smelly smoke LOL
 
Exweed, steve, spell my name right plzktnx.

Sure, a direct letter would get their attention quicker but how is that going to shield me? Or you if you sent a direct letter for that matter? We need to get public support on this issue first. Trust me, i've been dealing with SC and STLR for a few years now, sending them a letter would be pointless. Both companies know who I am, where I live, and what i'm about already. They don't care.

They want to play lawyer too. Wait, I thought they made karaoke? Now they do law too? Makes no sense.

They hate me... JW knows it. JW knows they know who I am.

Get a few newspapers to start writing about it. Get the attention of city/county/state lawmakers. If the laws are grey, they'll fix it. Hopefully they'll fix it in our favor.

I just know my strategy is better steve. We need public support. We need goverment support...

For instance..

My city could enact a law stating any KJ running from PC 1 to 1 and CDG's onsite cannot be charged with these bull**** charges SC and STLR are trying to trump up on people.

I think there's a good chance of this happening in my city. San Jose is "The heart of Silicon Valley". Our entire city strives to create tech innovation, and if my customer base is being threatened by SC and STLR, I have a right to ask my city to enact laws to protect them and prevent the stifling of our technology.

This would just take me a few hours of my time. Go down to City Council, print out copies of the SC and STLR statements, explain my situation for 2 minutes and be on my way. If they're interested (which i'm sure they will be) it'll get put on the agenda for discussion, then a comittee will be formed to evaluate it and make a plan. Plan vote gets put on the adgenda and presto, me and every other person playing it fair can't get bent over the barrel by SC and STLR.
 
Toqer: Sorry about the misspelling.

If you're determined to throw down the guantlet, more power to you! I'm behind you, I'm far behind you, but I'm behind you. Somebody has got to take the first step and you seem like just the guy to get it done.
 
If you're determined to throw down the guantlet, more power to you! I'm behind you, I'm far behind you, but I'm behind you. Somebody has got to take the first step and you seem like just the guy to get it done.

That's exactly right. While I don't agree with what they're trying to do, I don't feel like being made an example. And unfortunately, until there is some case law clarifying the situation either way, nothing will be resolved.