Are you green? Do you care?

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the only way we could possibly keep from allowing waste escape the osone layer would be to return to primitive times. We are to glutenous to do this all these games we play go green hug a tree etc are weak attempts at embarrasment to what we have done managing all these issues. OH gee if all of us lived in caves and built fires for meals and heat as well as for lighting our cave we would in fact emit more gasses with the number of people on Earth. Factory regulation and other areas have gotten tough in the past 50 yrs. I see more pollution from Diesel trucks than anything else. It has to be a major contributor, we also need to make more efficient travel routing to keep from allowing cars to stop and start every block. It raises emissions to dangerous levels during rush hour. At the border they spend up to four hours in a line up to get through especially during holidays and weekends. I have yet to see the powers that be discuss these issues.

Steve has spoken correctly on cycles. Sure responsibility is a good thing but thinking even a lights out for one hour does much is like a bandaid on the Titanic. Mother Earth calls the shots. Their is a cycle as regular as the moons. If one understood the making of books like the Farmers almanac you can see how accurate it is and how no matter what we do as humans it seems to follow this cycle.
 
Jon Tuck said:
the only way we could possibly keep from allowing waste escape the osone layer would be to return to primitive times. We are to glutenous to do this all these games we play go green hug a tree etc are weak attempts at embarrasment to what we have done managing all these issues. OH gee if all of us lived in caves and built fires for meals and heat as well as for lighting our cave we would in fact emit more gasses with the number of people on Earth. Factory regulation and other areas have gotten tough in the past 50 yrs. I see more pollution from Diesel trucks than anything else. It has to be a major contributor, we also need to make more efficient travel routing to keep from allowing cars to stop and start every block. It raises emissions to dangerous levels during rush hour. At the border they spend up to four hours in a line up to get through especially during holidays and weekends. I have yet to see the powers that be discuss these issues.

Steve has spoken correctly on cycles. Sure responsibility is a good thing but thinking even a lights out for one hour does much is like a bandaid on the Titanic. Mother Earth calls the shots. Their is a cycle as regular as the moons. If one understood the making of books like the Farmers almanac you can see how accurate it is and how no matter what we do as humans it seems to follow this cycle.
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Everything in our universe is cyclical. The way our planet spins and orbits the sun dictates this. But the current warming trend isn't a cycle. It must not be confused with seasonal variations and former epochs. Former periods were driven by volcanism, which isn't the case this time around. It's also not due to the other "usual suspects" such as solar variation or the tilt of Earth's axis (which drove the ice ages). It's all about the greenhouse gasses.

See, we human critters have given the earth a double-whammy; we not only put tons of those gasses in the atmosphere every day, but we've been clear cutting rain forest -- the earth's second biggest carbon sink -- for decades now. This means that not only is less and less CO2 being absorbed by plants and trees, but the clear cutting, which involves burning, is also releasing tons and tons of trapped CO2. All of this contributes to the condition.

But we don't have to return to primitive times. We just have to be smarter about how we use resources, and make better choices. I'm pretty old school; I still believe in the notion of "progress." So I'm not an advocate of tossing away technology! I see this whole issue as two things: an engineering problem and a numbers game. We're fast approaching seven BILLION people. Earth, however, isn't getting any bigger. One person might not contribute much. Six + billion? It is STAGGERING what such numbers can mean!

The ozone hole is a good example of what can be done once we recognize a problem and correct our mistake. The ozone hole has been shrinking, and has thickened up over the past decade or so. It seems to be on the road to extinction. (See: http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/ )

So again, don't fear the green! A cleaner world is always a good thing. But don't buy the cap and trade swindle either. It is part of a completely different con job that was outlined by Matt Taibbi in this month's Rolling Stone. Should be required reading.

Best,

~Stu
 
Consumption is bunk!

John P said:
Well, there's a lot going on these days with regard
Are you considering doing any of this stuff? Do you even care or believe any of it matters?
Of course there are lots that believe the whole global warming thing is bunk. I tend to believe it.
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We must care enough to find out as much as possible and act on it. I have studied science since I was a child and have a 20 year subscription to Popular Science at the age of 30. I read wired.com and popsci.com, following links all over to sift through info. As I just learned in my logic class, one must seek to disconfirm in order to confirm; this process is lacking in religion...

I have noticed the climate change in Kansas over 30 years, or 1/133,333,333rd of Mother Earth's 4 billion years. Earth is seeing unprecedented species loss and the yellow smog over China at the olympics is not unlike other big cities. We have carved up the land with road and fence. What next?

I made this page a year ago and it screwed up my google rankings, but that is okay i guess...

www.kansascityvinyldjs.com/green_dj.php - I need to update the page for new css...

I bought all LED light fixtures to reduce weight, packaging, power usage, bulb replacement, heat, danger, etc. I just thought of it now, but I could probably run my whole light rig on a computer battery backup for a while if power goes out! Emergency dance lights!!!

As we race to consume everything in the universe in search of 'profits,' please do what you can to be non-American and reduce, reuse, recycle.

Get people gifts from Whole Foods or a local-sourced store.

Styrofoam is the worst, with plastics coming in next. Take food containers to restaurants or request their reusable plastic soup to-go containers instead of the styro. Ever seen under your food in chinese to-go food? Styro is all melted... mmm... fossil fuel on my food! Polystyrene!!

Google 'landfill full' and see what we have to live with for generations! If we did this in 100-200 years, what will happen by y3k?

Buy a stainless steel water container and you will never have to buy another.

Never buy particle board furniture! Buy glass, metal or stone, avoiding plastics and synthetics. Leather on your shoes and chairs will not cause additional animal deaths with the amount of meat we consume. Going part vegan will improve health for most, and an all vegan diets take 1/10 the land to feed a person. Cows produce huge amounts of methane, a greenhouse gas way worse than carbon dioxide. Moooove on, meat eaters!

Most of all, keep on reading and following links from all opinions.

To life,

DJC
www.kansascityvinyldjs.com/
www.djs4kansascity.com/
 
Wrong Way Conspiracy...

DJ Cam said:
The scientist are paid off it's a government conspiracy just like the moon landing.
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The Bush admin suppressed all efforts for research and intelligent science. Reporting of issues was stopped. I believe there is sufficient evidence presented in various arguments that U.S. Gov was conspiring against scientific effort, just the opposite of your sarcasm. In one of my logic books there is a paper about Exxon Mobil spending millions on PR to end their cleanup, when the money should have been spent on cleanup and more money charged to them. These companies, like Bank of America, reap about $40 billion in profits each year!!!!!
 
djclint said:
As we race to consume everything in the universe in search of 'profits,' please do what you can to be non-American and reduce, reuse, recycle.
<snip>
Going part vegan will improve health for most, and an all vegan diets take 1/10 the land to feed a person. Cows produce huge amounts of methane, a greenhouse gas way worse than carbon dioxide. Moooove on, meat eaters!

Most of all, keep on reading and following links from all opinions.

To life,

DJC
www.kansascityvinyldjs.com/
www.djs4kansascity.com/
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I was with you until you got to the meat part. Sorry -- that's my deal breaker. When I have a meal, SOMETHING is gonna DIE! :D

Also, in the spirit of Mythbusters, Showtime airs Penn & Teller's "Bullsh*t!" They did a great episode on recycling and the myth of running out of landfill space. The bottom line is that, with the exception of aluminum, it costs more to recycle other materials than it does to make totally new stuff. Also, many states COMPETE for your trash! Landfills have not only come nowhere NEAR their total capacity, but have become a valuable resource in some cases. Enterprising energy companies have found a way to siphon off and use the methane produced by the landfills turning them into an energy source! It's pretty interesting. Poke around on the 'net and find the episode -- it's worth the half hour of your time. (A close second is the one on bottled water!)

Now I think I'm gonna go have some chicken-wrapped cow tied with bacon strips and a side of veal covered lamb chops. Mmmmmm! :D
 
DJStuCrew said:
By our shear numbers, we humans cannot HELP but effect the environment. If you remember pictures of Los Angeles at rush hour, where the smog was go thick you couldn't see more than a couple of miles, then you know what a few million people can do to a single valley in a single state.
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And do you know when and why the "Blue Ridge Mountains" got the name!
 
DJStuCrew said:
Actually, humans released CFCs in the air via aerosol spray cans, so much so that it made a huge hole in the ozone layer, discovered by NASA unexpectedly! See, normally humans are indeed to puny to impact the environment one way or another. But, in the immortal words of Depeche Mode, "everything counts in large amounts." There are well over 6 BILLION humans on this planet. Even the poorest use energy, mostly by burning stuff. Six billion -- if you can even wrap your head around such a number -- is a LOT.

Unless you've studied the science behind climate change, you're at the mercy of the various political factions that have glommed-on to this issue for reasons other than concern for the planet. For instance, the right wingers all see it as a barrier to continued oil use, and big coal is definitely working hard to stay in charge! On the other side of the spectrum, the left wingers see this as a way to tax, with their silly "cap and trade" scheme, masterminded by big banks. For the first time, instead of a direct tax as a penalty for pollution, it would create an economy, said taxes being paid to the BANKS, and "carbon credits" to be traded like commodities. The scheme is disingenuous, as it doesn't actually reduce carbon output, but shifts it from businesses that don't pollute much to those that do. Oh, and it will make energy cost more.

That said, warming is very, very real. Nobody in northern Alaska or Greenland has any doubts. Plus, the science is pretty sound. Everything tells us that we're at the very least contributing to it. The only real question is how MUCH of warming is our fault.

That said, I say we err on the side of caution. After all, what's wrong with cleaner air and water? (And saving money?) I've used CFLs for years. When I changed all my bulbs, I immediately saved about $30 a month. Lucky for me, there's a recycling center a few blocks from my home that accepts them. (Batteries, too.) Oh, and the bad stuff in CFLs is no worse than that in batteries either.

A better alternative are LED bulbs. At the moment they're a bit pricey, but eat even less juice than CFLs and last a LOT longer! As we DJs know with our entertainment lighting, they're much less power hungry, and emit less heat pollution, too.

So going green isn't just for hippies. It's for people who like to save some bucks over the long haul, and keep their little patch of the planet a tiny bit cleaner.
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Stu,

No one, well certainly not me is denying climate change!

Did you know that Iceland used to be a tropical zone covered by rainforest?

Did you know that Aligators once lived in the Alaskian swamps?

Did you know that South America used to be an arid desert?

Did you know that at one time there were NO polar ice caps?

Did you know that at one time half the earth was covered in ice?

Did you know that the ice house cycles of the earth are shorter than the hot house cycles?

Did you know that the earth is currently cycling out of an ice house cycle and into a Hot house cycle?

In another million years the earth will be in a full blown hot house cycle! the tempatures will be in the 25C degree range there will be no ice once again!

While I agree that saving money is a great side effect of the green house histeria, and I do it myself (the saving money part), the simple fact is any money you try to save is going to be off set by taxing from the government!
 
Popular Science and Wired magazine are not scientific journals. Sorry to burst your impression of them. I subscribe to both so I can keep up on all the latest hype.

Termites - Quote from Science Magazine (sited from a science journal forum)

Termite and Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Facts: Termites produce more Carbon Dioxide (CO2) each year than all living things combined.


Scientists have calculated that termites alone produce ten times as much carbon dioxide as all the fossil fuels burned in the whole world in a year.


Pound for pound, the weight of all the termites in the world is greater than the total weight of humans.


Scientists estimate that, worldwide, termites may release over 150 million tons of methane gas into the atmosphere annually. In our lower atmosphere this methane then reacts to form carbon dioxide and ozone.


It is estimated that for every human on Earth there may be 1000 pounds of termites.


On the average Termites expel gas composed of about 59% nitrogen, 21% hydrogen, 9% carbon dioxide, 7% methane, and 4% oxygen.


It is thought "There are 2,600 different species of termites, and it is estimated that there are at least a million billion individual termites on Earth that they emit two and four percent of the global carbon dioxide and methane budget, respectively-both mediated directly or indirectly by their microbes.


Termites eat cellulose, but they can not digest it without the help of microorganisms in their gut. Single-celled protozoan are the primary organisms that break the bonds that turn cellulose into units of glucose, and from there, the termite can break the glucose bonds, release the energy, and give off carbon dioxide and water.

The Science magazine reports that termites annually generate more than twice as much carbon dioxide as mankind does burning fossil fuels. One termite species annually emits 600,000 metric tons of formic acid into the atmosphere, an amount equal to the combined contributions of automobiles, refuse combustion and vegetation.
 
Thunder said:
Stu,

No one, well certainly not me is denying climate change!

Did you know that Iceland used to be a tropical zone covered by rainforest?

Did you know that Aligators once lived in the Alaskian swamps?

Did you know that South America used to be an arid desert?

Did you know that at one time there were NO polar ice caps?

Did you know that at one time half the earth was covered in ice?

Did you know that the ice house cycles of the earth are shorter than the hot house cycles?

Did you know that the earth is currently cycling out of an ice house cycle and into a Hot house cycle?

In another million years the earth will be in a full blown hot house cycle! the tempatures will be in the 25C degree range there will be no ice once again!

While I agree that saving money is a great side effect of the green house histeria, and I do it myself (the saving money part), the simple fact is any money you try to save is going to be off set by taxing from the government!
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Yes, and at one time there was just one super-continent. No argument about change over vast time scales. And THAT is EXACTLY the difference! Like evolution, it should be almost impossible to see such gradual, long-term changes. But we CAN, and quite measurably. Since volcanism is down and sunspot activity has been at an all-time low (and many of the other "usual suspects" aren't a measurable factor), it seems to indicate something else is going on.

As Sherlock Homes' character liked to say, once you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how seemingly far-fetched, must be the truth. That doesn't mean you stop LOOKING, but I'm a firm believer in not sh***ing where I eat. So, if there's any reasonable way I can reduce, reuse, recycle and pollute less, why not do it?

No civilization has ever lasted for a million years, so I'm not that concerned. I'm more concerned about the present and shorter term conditions that our children and grand-children will have to deal with. (Hint: don't buy coastal property.) :)

Best,

~Stu
 
jtnichol said:
Popular Science and Wired magazine are not scientific journals. Sorry to burst your impression of them. I subscribe to both so I can keep up on all the latest hype.

Termites - Quote from Science Magazine (sited from a science journal forum)

Termite and Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Facts: Termites produce more Carbon Dioxide (CO2) each year than all living things combined.


Scientists have calculated that termites alone produce ten times as much carbon dioxide as all the fossil fuels burned in the whole world in a year.


Pound for pound, the weight of all the termites in the world is greater than the total weight of humans.


Scientists estimate that, worldwide, termites may release over 150 million tons of methane gas into the atmosphere annually. In our lower atmosphere this methane then reacts to form carbon dioxide and ozone.


It is estimated that for every human on Earth there may be 1000 pounds of termites.


On the average Termites expel gas composed of about 59% nitrogen, 21% hydrogen, 9% carbon dioxide, 7% methane, and 4% oxygen.


It is thought "There are 2,600 different species of termites, and it is estimated that there are at least a million billion individual termites on Earth that they emit two and four percent of the global carbon dioxide and methane budget, respectively-both mediated directly or indirectly by their microbes.


Termites eat cellulose, but they can not digest it without the help of microorganisms in their gut. Single-celled protozoan are the primary organisms that break the bonds that turn cellulose into units of glucose, and from there, the termite can break the glucose bonds, release the energy, and give off carbon dioxide and water.

The Science magazine reports that termites annually generate more than twice as much carbon dioxide as mankind does burning fossil fuels. One termite species annually emits 600,000 metric tons of formic acid into the atmosphere, an amount equal to the combined contributions of automobiles, refuse combustion and vegetation.
Click to expand...

A prime example of "everything counts in large amounts!" And to think... we're ADDING to all of that! (I've also never seen "termite smog." An interesting idea!)
 
Esoteric said:
Of course by the same argument as the anti-global warming sect, there us plenty of empty land around here. Overcrowding is a myth.

Mike
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Trust me real estate will be a factor very soon. And with the global warming thing, I'm with Thunder on this, it's a cycle being used to manipulate people and benefit only a few.

Texas may be big but you've got swarms coming in both illegal and from the known baby factories up there.
 
I don't doubt that some are using global warming as an excuse to profiteer -- I also don't doubt it is in fact being helped along quite nicely by us.

Everyone is aware of cyclical changes, but all one needs to do, is look at the last 150 years or so, to see the damage that has been done by humans. Since the first steam shovels started digging through forests, the amount of damage done to the ecosystem, is huge, and easily seen!

You can't pave a large portion of the world, exhaust half the carbon based fuels lying below the ground, and not change things.

It's totally unrealistic (and selfish) of some people, to not accept their (human) responsibility, and the long term effects they will have.

Deny all you like ;)


My guess, is most humans will not be around in another 100 years to see the results, as the fight for fresh water, and what remains of carbon based fuels, will probably be the demise of most of the human race. In that case, as Jon mentioned earlier, we will be forced back into the stone age, by our own simple arrogance...
 
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