Do you negotiate?

[Ron Auger]

Actually Ron you are incorrect, all things are negotiable

No, I'm not incorrect because I never said all things weren't negotiable, I asked when was the last time anyone negotiated prices for certain services. I do like some of your ideas though. But not many people would, on a regular basis walk into their dentist and ask, "so how much to remove this tooth if I don't use any Novocaine"?. I like your idea with your mechanic but how many people on a regular basis tells their mechanic "my car won't start, call me when you get an opening and well have you do it for less?" I don't think many would consider that normally. Yet more people feel that we should always negotiate our price on a regular basis.

I'm not picking on him but Tom Olendorf even puts it on his website that all prices are negotiable. To me that tells the customer that "if you don't think I'm that good I'll do it for a cheaper price. That for many it's not about my service but how little you can get me for".

Yes, all things are negotiable if you allow them to be.

 

[Chuck The DJ]

Sitting back and passively browsing for a deal or doing something yourself to save money isn't NEGOTIATING.
Negotiating is an active process.

when you buy a car or shop around you are not just "sitting back" you are actively looking for a deal. When you find out where the best deal is for that new mixer, again you are looking and you might even ask Ben "is that the best deal" or "what is the best deal" that is also actively looking for a deal.

"Doing something to save yourself some money......"
wouldn't that be also negotiating?

 

[Chuck The DJ]

I stand corrected.

Ron, you ignorant slut.... you are not standing, you are sitting,,, so you sit corrected!

 

[Ron Auger]

Ron, you ignorant slut.... you are not standing, you are sitting,,, so you sit corrected!

Yeah, my @$$ is negotiable.:sqerr:

 

[Sounds To Go]

when you buy a car or shop around you are not just "sitting back" you are actively looking for a deal. When you find out where the best deal is for that new mixer, again you are looking and you might even ask Ben "is that the best deal" or "what is the best deal" that is also actively looking for a deal.

LOL... This in no way contradicts my point quoted above.

"Doing something to save yourself some money......" wouldn't that be also negotiating?

Nope.

# negotiation - a discussion intended to produce an agreement; "the buyout negotiation lasted several days"; "they disagreed but kept an open dialogue"; "talks between Israelis and Palestinians"
# negotiation - the activity or business of negotiating an agreement; coming to terms

i.e. sitting in front of your computer surfing sites for a good price on a rack-case isn't "negotiating." Trying to further talk down that stated price from THERE... now THAT'S "negotiating."

 

[Esoteric]

It comes down to one question.

Do you need to work? The client will find a service at their price point. The question is do you want the work or not?

Mike

 

[Sounds To Go]

The client will find a service at their price point.

Let them! If it ain't me, it ain't me.

I don't rely on my DJ business for my shelter or daily bread, so I can afford the luxury of formulating an already reasonable no-nonsense price based on basic business principles and stick to it. This allows me to be consistent and places me right between the $1500-$2000 guys and the Craigslist dj's who do nothing BUT price-match and negotiate and trip over each other to have the lowest price.

If you're reduced to competing on price alone, you've admitted to yourself, and your potential clients that you can't truly compete at any other level that really matters, and that you can't differentiate yourself in a way that commands your original asking rate.

The clientele I want to work with makes a decision on perceived value, and knows they have to spend *something* to get a quality service. They expect it, and I'm glad to deliver.

If Mr. Priceshopper wants someone to bend to "their price point?" I'll be glad to point them in the right direction...!

Our local market is COMPLETELY over-saturated with guys who think that "having the lowest price" is the way to attract and sign business. Luckily for the rest of us, they're always going to stay in that same position because they just "don't get it."

I don't worry myself about jobs I lose to a lower bidder... why take a step back? I worry about those instances where someone charging MORE than me gets a gig - I want to know how he justifies and commands that rate, and if he truly is differentiating himself in a way that DOES justify the higher rate, I want to learn from that.

The time I spend dj'ing is time I'm NOT spending with my family, so the compensation I get from that has to make the whole venture worth-while for the sacrifices we are all making each weekend, so I have no interest in staying at the bottom.

I say, let them have the crumbs! I'm not going to negotiate or bargain to sweep them up!

 

[DJ SVO]

[YT]3oKwg6W05MU[/YT]

 

[Sounds To Go]

YES!

Gawd that movie is great. Well played man... well played!

 

[Esoteric]

Let them! If it ain't me, it ain't me.

I don't rely on my DJ business for my shelter or daily bread, so I can afford the luxury of formulating an already reasonable no-nonsense price based on basic business principles and stick to it. This allows me to be consistent and places me right between the $1500-$2000 guys and the Craigslist dj's who do nothing BUT price-match and negotiate and trip over each other to have the lowest price.

If you're reduced to competing on price alone, you've admitted to yourself, and your potential clients that you can't truly compete at any other level that really matters, and that you can't differentiate yourself in a way that commands your original asking rate.

The clientele I want to work with makes a decision on perceived value, and knows they have to spend *something* to get a quality service. They expect it, and I'm glad to deliver.

If Mr. Priceshopper wants someone to bend to "their price point?" I'll be glad to point them in the right direction...!

Our local market is COMPLETELY over-saturated with guys who think that "having the lowest price" is the way to attract and sign business. Luckily for the rest of us, they're always going to stay in that same position because they just "don't get it."

I don't worry myself about jobs I lose to a lower bidder... why take a step back? I worry about those instances where someone charging MORE than me gets a gig - I want to know how he justifies and commands that rate, and if he truly is differentiating himself in a way that DOES justify the higher rate, I want to learn from that.

The time I spend dj'ing is time I'm NOT spending with my family, so the compensation I get from that has to make the whole venture worth-while for the sacrifices we are all making each weekend, so I have no interest in staying at the bottom.

I say, let them have the crumbs! I'm not going to negotiate or bargain to sweep them up!

And that is fine for you. But for those of us who need to keep bread on the table, we can not afford to have that attitude. I provide exceptional value at my price and 90% of the time I get that price. But the other 10% of the time I will make an exception either in order to get more work later or to fill up an otherwise dead day. Examples?

I just did a show last night for 5% of my normal fee. First off it was a dead night, so any money is good. Secondly the venue is looking to do a lighting retrofit in the near future so this could turn into a $20000 project.

In March I am doing a show for 1/4 of my maximum rate. Why? Because that is the going rate in the area right now and 25% of my max is better than 100% of nothing.

But in April I have several gigs at my max rate. Two of these came out of gigs done for less than half of my max daily rate.

I just finished a $65000 install three months ago that came out of a gig I did for free.

By the way we are not special, no matter what we tell ourselves. Everyone's job is time they have to spend away from their families. That does not make us special.

In the end it comes down to do you need the work or not? If not you can afford to turn your nose up at gigs and try to defy the market.

If you need the work then you have to adjust with the market and stay competitive, and part of being competitive is pricing.

Mike

 

[Sounds To Go]

My pricing is MORE than competitive (to the point that I am accused by some here - maybe rightfully so - of actually leaving money on the table and not charging enough) for the market I am actually in, so I'm not worried about it.

I'm plenty competitive.

Anyone who feels an incessant need to try to get my below my already more than reasonable and justifiable rate can find someone else to play there penny-pinching game.

Do I want work? Sure. Am I willing to go into the red to get it? Not a chance.

The circumstance you mentioned about prospecting for another gig or bigger job in the future is something entirely different from a prospective client who is trying to get something for nothing.

It costs money to exist as a business entity, and if I start lower my prices from where they are now, I'm just not even recouping that.

So no - no negotiating here!

 

[Esoteric]

Hey guys just a little story from this weekend (note, prices are changed to protect the innocent, but the scale between them remains the same).

My normal fee for a two day event is $500. I had a client call up and ask if I would do his event for $50 for both days. This would mean I break even on the gig after all my real costs. No profit. $0. But I did it (although I must admit I had an ulterior motive anyway, it was a ministry event, and I will do ministry events at a break even point from time to time). Well at the event tonight I met the worship minister for the Church. He asked me what I did and how much I charged. I told him my consulting fee is $500. He is scheduling an appt in the coming week. If they decide to proceed that will turn into a $3000 or more contract.

All because I negotiated a gig.

Mike

 

[Sounds To Go]

That's great Mike, good job!

It's still not really apples to apples though.... it's a gig of a type you'd be (by your own admission) willing to do for little-to-free anyway for obvious non-professional reasons, which is cool. That and you're stated "ulterior motive..." LOL

Still different than Joe groom off the street where, aside from the usual potential for the odd referral, there isn't that much to be gained by the "sacrifice" made in negotiating a contract.

As an aside, I volunteer my services for elderly and assisted living homes in my area because I love the music, and never get to play it at gigs I would normally do, and I love the people. Kind of like your ministry gigs where you'd volunteer your services.

A couple months ago I dropped off a packet at one of them that was being newly constructed/opened, and turns out they called me a few weeks ago to do their open-house last weekend. I told them I would be happy to volunteer my services, and told them I'd show up at given date an time, and a contract was never even filled or signed.

The gig went famously, and at the end of the event, they said they knew I had volunteered my services, but wanted to "tip me," so I said "great, thank you!" When I got out to my car, and opened the envelope, I found that there "tip" consisted of the "normal" hourly rate that their centers typically pay for services like mine and they reimbursed me for the whole event! Not my normal joe-blow public going rate, but still... That, and I got a resounding "well done" from the residents and staff, and a shoe-in for being their in-house guy.

I also do elementary school events for pennies, and volunteer my services at my daughter's elementary.

So I know what you mean about strategically positioning yourself and negotiating rates.

My ongoing rant here so far has been about different situations - namely the once-off client who "wants to haggle."

Will I bend when there's potential big payoff at the other end? Sure!

Will I go below my previously determined ceiling for a guy who wants it all for nothing? Not a CHANCE!

 

[Fred Wright]

Jeff Gitomer writes a column for the Disc Jockey news, by the way.

While I often concur with Jeff's intent (much of it is basic business principle), I have learned that the mobile DJ biz doesn't often follow hard and fast rules of business.

As for negotiation, it isn't necessarily a swear word in this biz. For my part, I'm not selling cars so I don't dicker with prospects. Negotiation involves all manner of doing business. It's not about cost only.

Some brides don't want lighting. Others do. If ya don't have to load the lighting and set it up, you're saving time and money. Why not pass that saving along to the customer?

In all honesty, it's about the market one wishes to work in.

 

[Dave Winsor]

Mike,

How difficult will it be to go from "0" to "3000"? You're already free. This is not to bash intent or the great job you did, but I'm thinking how would "I" do it, and it appears to be difficult.

Dave

 

[Sounds To Go]

... I have learned that the mobile DJ biz doesn't often follow hard and fast rules of business.

It doesn't as a rule, but that's not to say that it shouldn't or that individual businesses within it can't, or shouldn't for that matter.

If you view yourself as anything other than a professional service provider running a business and charging a completely justified and reasonable professional rate for your services, then your potential clients will as well. When your pricing is based on tangibles that are easily communicable to the client, and they can CLEARLY SEE the value in your offering, it's not JUST that you won't "have to" negotiate any more - you won't even be ASKED TO! Personally, I can count the number of times I have been asked to negotiate price on one hand with fingers left over, so the value proposition is there for the client's perspective, and I'm not "losing work" for my refusal to play that game.

Some brides don't want lighting. Others do. If ya don't have to load the lighting and set it up, you're saving time and money. Why not pass that saving along to the customer?

Goes without saying that this is only applicable if you have built hard-costs associated with providing/setting up lighting into your initial base-rate or packages to begin with. For me, since I don't build these things in, there's no savings to be had for the couple that doesn't want them.

In all honesty, it's about the market one wishes to work in.

Exactly right. You can either work in a market where people will gladly pay a fair-market price for professional services received, and actually EXPECT to do the same, or you can cater to a lowest-common denominator market where every job is a battle to be won on price and price alone!

Personally, I have no desire to waste my time, talents, or efforts in the latter.

 

[Chuck The DJ]

Exactly right. You can either work in a market where people will gladly pay a fair-market price for professional services received, and actually EXPECT to do the same, or you can cater to a lowest-common denominator market where every job is a battle to be won on price and price alone!

I think that you can do both by taking each inquiry and dealing with it as need be.

 

[Esoteric]

Mike,

How difficult will it be to go from "0" to "3000"? You're already free. This is not to bash intent or the great job you did, but I'm thinking how would "I" do it, and it appears to be difficult.

Dave

Ohhhh!!! Now I get it.

Not as difficult as you imagine. Once the client sees the gear in action and and they talk with me for a few minutes, the initial jump from "$0" to "$500" for the consulting fee is simple. After that when they see my website and I sit down with them with a definite plan (and competitive pricing as well as great customer service) the jump from "$500" to "$3000" goes either one of two ways. Either they have extreme sticker shock and I sell them a small package in the "$500" range (in which case when you count the gig and the consult I end up with my normal hourly rate) which is very simple to sell, or if they know what they are doing, then the "$3000" is very simple to get because it requires no upsell, that is what this stuff costs (keep in mind the "$3000" is my profit not the package). The hard part is getting them into the "$5000+" range because that is where the upsell comes into place.

So at the VERY least I did something that I would have done anyway.

At the least I have made my normal hourly rate (all be it over 2 transactions).

At the best I get a large and repeat client (which has happened twice).

Mike

PS You guys are right, the situation is slightly different. I don't deal with one off customers 99% of the time, and when I do it is as a ministry event. But when I do deal with possible one offs, I will still negotiate. My normal pricing is a premium that people pay for my unique skill set, so because I normally charge a premium I can afford to negotiate down up to 15% and still turn a reasonable profit, so for last minute gigs on empty days I will negotiate up to 15% (no client knows this thought).

Mike

 

[Dave Winsor]

Mike,

Thanks for your well written response.

Awesome.

Dave

 

[Ausumm]

Hell yeah I negotiate!
just got a wedding for this weekend
only beacuse I dropped a few bucks off the price
for the first week in March
I'd rather make a little less than not work at all!