The first step in persuasion
is to entice your target
to imagine doing the thing
you want them to do.
is to entice your target
to imagine doing the thing
you want them to do.
For your next sales meeting...
- Thread starter Dave Winsor
- Start date
I rarely have sales meetings. Maybe one out of five clients books like that.
My first step of persuasion: have them on the same wavelength as me. Prospect who finds me in one of the authority sites (Yelp, WW, City Voter, City Search, etc) has already decided that I'm what they're looking for.
My Sales meeting (80% of the time) is a telephone call, and they say (after about 10 minutes) "Send Me The Contract."
another example of how I'm "zigging" when everyone else is "zagging"
When they call, they are already in the persuasion mode --- I just need to close 'em!
My first step of persuasion: have them on the same wavelength as me. Prospect who finds me in one of the authority sites (Yelp, WW, City Voter, City Search, etc) has already decided that I'm what they're looking for.
My Sales meeting (80% of the time) is a telephone call, and they say (after about 10 minutes) "Send Me The Contract."
another example of how I'm "zigging" when everyone else is "zagging"
When they call, they are already in the persuasion mode --- I just need to close 'em!
I've always believed that....paint the picture in such a way that they want you and no one else. Its called old fashion customer service and salesmanship....things that others have gotten away from Im embrace...I have very few issues with any clients cause I do face to face.
Not really. My business is quite different from Matt's SEO approach and I don't
have to sell hard at all. Most of my salespeople are past clients, vendors and venues. By the time the referral reaches me, the booking is a mere technicality.
(Provided I want to work for them of course)
I like your thread though. It's doing for you the very thing it proposes. Very clever.
Hank,
Thanks. I'm not that deep though. It took me a couple of seconds to figure out what I did...LOL.
Dave
Thanks. I'm not that deep though. It took me a couple of seconds to figure out what I did...LOL.
Dave
A lot of non-industry-related sales folk I talk to say they want their websites to basically be nothing more than an online business card, that they want to talk to the people and sell them.
My take is totally different. I make my site as detailed, robust, and comprehensive as it can be to weed out undesirable leads and answer just about any question someone might have, including pricing. Practically any question someone would want to ask a dj is answered SOMEWHERE on my cluster-f of a site!
Like Matt and RLP, when they get to me, they are usually sold on the site and booking is a formality. I book all sorts of events over the phone in one ten minute phone call, but never a wedding. I like to meet unless they are out of state, or there are other circumstances prohibiting it.
I want to talk to people who want to talk TO ME and possibly hire ME... not just "get a quote from a dj." There are plenty of guys who will spin wheels playing that game
I'd rather talk to the peeps who are impressed with what they learned online, haven't flinched at the pricing, and are already sold!
If I have to try to justify my prices (ridiculously reasonably-priced for the offering and the market), I don't even try. I just let em go to Craigslist!
They see the prices online, they recognize the value from the rest of the site, so the rest is just gettin' to know you, answer your questions, let's get together to sign!
My take is totally different. I make my site as detailed, robust, and comprehensive as it can be to weed out undesirable leads and answer just about any question someone might have, including pricing. Practically any question someone would want to ask a dj is answered SOMEWHERE on my cluster-f of a site!
Like Matt and RLP, when they get to me, they are usually sold on the site and booking is a formality. I book all sorts of events over the phone in one ten minute phone call, but never a wedding. I like to meet unless they are out of state, or there are other circumstances prohibiting it.
I want to talk to people who want to talk TO ME and possibly hire ME... not just "get a quote from a dj." There are plenty of guys who will spin wheels playing that game
I'd rather talk to the peeps who are impressed with what they learned online, haven't flinched at the pricing, and are already sold!If I have to try to justify my prices (ridiculously reasonably-priced for the offering and the market), I don't even try. I just let em go to Craigslist!
They see the prices online, they recognize the value from the rest of the site, so the rest is just gettin' to know you, answer your questions, let's get together to sign!
Howdy,
If people are booking just from a site visit, it seems like you need to raise your price. I mean, without even having a discussion about value or personality?
Really?
Dave
ps. I'm really hoping for a civil discussion here.
If people are booking just from a site visit, it seems like you need to raise your price. I mean, without even having a discussion about value or personality?
Really?
Dave
ps. I'm really hoping for a civil discussion here.
I don't know why you'd say that. They make the decision exactly because the VALUE is so obviously there! My pricing strategies and philosophies are a lot different than many of my contemporaries, so I suppose we could just agree to disagree on many pricing points and call it a day!
Barring that, my prices are pretty middle-of-the-road for my market ($750/4hr Reception), and I build those prices from the ground up based on nothing but tangibles - i.e., my hard-costs to exist and do business, and my time for every part of the job, including meetings, paperwork, loading, setup, etc. I'm sure most of you do the same.
As for discussing personality, I don't discuss personality. I have a personality, and if they like it on the phone and in email, they set up a consult, and if they think the personalities "click" there, and they see a value in the service offering, they hire. Personality is never "discussed" at all.
While I would of course love to get paid more for what I do (wouldn't anybody who does anything?), I can't just pull a magic and baseless number out of the ether like many dj's too. My rates are what I need from a business stand-point, and reimburse me what I feel, right now, given my level of experience, etc., to be a fair hourly rate for my services before and during the event.
It's not that I UNDERPRICE, so people are willing to buy sight unseen, but rather that for decades, DJ's have been OVER charging based on subjective considerations, hence the need to resort to used-car-salesman-like tactics and fight tooth-and-nail to "justify" their rate to perspective clients. If the value is their in the eyes of the client, it's not a fight.
People see the value in my services, and it's easy to sell them on it. Just like a new big-screen.
If people see a big screen tv (my prices), they will buy it unless they know they can get something (whether the same or lower in quality) sufficiently cheaper elsewhere ("Craigslist DJ"). It's not that the price on the sticker is "too high" and the tv "doesn't seem worth it," it's just that they know they can get it cheaper down the road or on-line. But if you saw essentially the SAME or a similar big screen tv priced SUBSTANTIALLY MORE (the dj who has to actively TRY to convince people of the value of their offerings), the sales-staff is going to have to work that much harder to convince the buyer to shell out and boost the value-perception.
I do my best to SHOW clients what they can expect and receive both before and during their event, and if they like it, they buy. Part of my strategy though is that I do as much of this education and elucidation for the potential customer on my site so they have that understanding of what I bring, my philosophies, what they can expect, etc. before they call me. So it's not a battle for me, nor an arduous sales process to "sway them" over to me.
So I would respond to your comment by saying that if someone has to fight an uphill battle to convince people of the value of their offering, an overwhelming value might not be there... at least for that client. This may be because of the offering itself, or, it could be due to deficiencies in the way the services and offerings are being communicated to the client - thereby determining if they will "see the value."
If every sale is a battle to justify your rate, you're either charging too much (i.e., they don't agree the value is there), or you need to do a better job of conveying said value, or simply need to market to a clientele who won't blink at the rates you are charging.
That's why I insist upon formulating my prices using a simple cost+ model and basing them on tangibles. Such pricing in our industry is bound to end up being middle-of-the-road in any given market.
I think the psychological effect of this on the buyer tends to be a Goldilocks-esque feeling that the pricing is honest, and makes them feel like they are paying a professional fee for a professional service while not getting reamed in the process
Combine this middle-of-the-road pricing with a slam-dunk value perception, and they will buy without "a pitch" needed.
Np man.... we're here to share... thank you for entering the thread and keeping it relevant.
Howdy
Howdy,
First off, I was not, in any way making this a personal issue and it won't be from here on either.
My point, was that people will hire you, it seemed, without having any real contact with you because your price is right. My initial point was "I BELIEVE" that you are leaving money on the table. People are rushing to sign you up, and that's great, but don't you believe that you should at least have some discussion with prospective buyers.
I'm trying to come up with an everyday analogy to make my point. Maybe Volvo vs. Saturn. Saturn's big selling point was one price, no haggling. Volvo doesn't haggle either, but I think we'd all agree the is a difference in product quality, at least perceived value.
So, if the good people of Sacramento are looking for dj services and you are booking like crazy, than that's good. BUT....how about if you took your price DOWN off the website? How would your approach be different? I believe that your USP (unique selling proposition) is PRICE. What would you do if a competitor decided to undercut you by $100 and blares the headline:
BEST SERVICE AND ROCKIN' MUSIC FOR ONLY $650 for FIVE HOURS!
I really am not saying that what you are doing is wrong, clearly it works for you, but my impression was you were leaving cash on the table.
While I would of course love to get paid more for what I do (wouldn't anybody who does anything?), I can't just pull a magic and baseless number out of the ether like many dj's too. My rates are what I need from a business stand-point, and reimburse me what I feel, right now, given my level of experience, etc., to be a fair hourly rate for my services before and during the event.
I think this is a very important and telling point. I appreciate your honesty.
It's not that I UNDERPRICE, so people are willing to buy sight unseen, but rather that for decades, DJ's have been OVER charging based on subjective considerations, hence the need to resort to used-car-salesman-like tactics and fight tooth-and-nail to "justify" their rate to perspective clients. If the value is their in the eyes of the client, it's not a fight.
BTW, in sales you don't need to "convince" someone to spend more money with you, it's a way to establish your value BEYOND the price of the service.
So I would respond to your comment by saying that if someone has to fight an uphill battle to convince people of the value of their offering, an overwhelming value might not be there... at least for that client. This may be because of the offering itself, or, it could be due to deficiencies in the way the services and offerings are being communicated to the client - thereby determining if they will "see the value."
Consumers don't know what they are looking for. Our job is to educate them.
Dave
ps. I love this pricing topic because I've had a few clients who signed with me immediately. When I asked them why, they said to me "When you told us the price, we signed because we thought you'd be more!" I KNOW then that I left money on the table.
Howdy,
First off, I was not, in any way making this a personal issue and it won't be from here on either.
My point, was that people will hire you, it seemed, without having any real contact with you because your price is right. My initial point was "I BELIEVE" that you are leaving money on the table. People are rushing to sign you up, and that's great, but don't you believe that you should at least have some discussion with prospective buyers.
I'm trying to come up with an everyday analogy to make my point. Maybe Volvo vs. Saturn. Saturn's big selling point was one price, no haggling. Volvo doesn't haggle either, but I think we'd all agree the is a difference in product quality, at least perceived value.
So, if the good people of Sacramento are looking for dj services and you are booking like crazy, than that's good. BUT....how about if you took your price DOWN off the website? How would your approach be different? I believe that your USP (unique selling proposition) is PRICE. What would you do if a competitor decided to undercut you by $100 and blares the headline:
BEST SERVICE AND ROCKIN' MUSIC FOR ONLY $650 for FIVE HOURS!
I really am not saying that what you are doing is wrong, clearly it works for you, but my impression was you were leaving cash on the table.
While I would of course love to get paid more for what I do (wouldn't anybody who does anything?), I can't just pull a magic and baseless number out of the ether like many dj's too. My rates are what I need from a business stand-point, and reimburse me what I feel, right now, given my level of experience, etc., to be a fair hourly rate for my services before and during the event.
I think this is a very important and telling point. I appreciate your honesty.
It's not that I UNDERPRICE, so people are willing to buy sight unseen, but rather that for decades, DJ's have been OVER charging based on subjective considerations, hence the need to resort to used-car-salesman-like tactics and fight tooth-and-nail to "justify" their rate to perspective clients. If the value is their in the eyes of the client, it's not a fight.
BTW, in sales you don't need to "convince" someone to spend more money with you, it's a way to establish your value BEYOND the price of the service.
So I would respond to your comment by saying that if someone has to fight an uphill battle to convince people of the value of their offering, an overwhelming value might not be there... at least for that client. This may be because of the offering itself, or, it could be due to deficiencies in the way the services and offerings are being communicated to the client - thereby determining if they will "see the value."
Consumers don't know what they are looking for. Our job is to educate them.
Dave
ps. I love this pricing topic because I've had a few clients who signed with me immediately. When I asked them why, they said to me "When you told us the price, we signed because we thought you'd be more!" I KNOW then that I left money on the table.
That's a pretty shallow assessment. Value and personality can absolutely come through in good copy.
Anyone booking for the sake of a higher rate would be just as naive.
I just skimmed through the thread again and I must have missed where anyone said or implied that their rates were the deciding factor.
A referral from a trusted relation or venue combined with clear concise website info, can go a long way. If the price happens to be better than they expected, well, that's just an added "value".
I don't structure my rates by what the others are charging. I provide a particular service targeting a particular client. When they find me, it's a done deal. My peers have nothing to do with it.
Hank,
I respectfully disagree that personality can be gleaned through copy. While it may be an indicator, I don't think it's the end result.
"Shallow"? I read the thread and I made a comment. I was referring to the fact that the bookings were taking place solely because of what was written on the site. The item with the largest font was PRICE. I said what I felt and in no way would I consider it demeaning or shallow.
No one implied price except me. I brought it up. I'm not saying that he needs to change his price, but if EVERYONE is buying, that indicates to me (perhaps incorrectly) that price is not an objection, therefore I made the comment that money may be being left on the table.
I agree about referrals. They come with an implied endorsement. They are powerful. I was only looking at the casual shopper who buys the service based on a website visit alone.
No business exists in a competitive vacuum. People are shopping all the time. Even referred clients.
I'm not sure that a low price is "value added" but that's just me. Value added to me means something above and beyond what the client may expect.
Thanks,
Dave
I respectfully disagree that personality can be gleaned through copy. While it may be an indicator, I don't think it's the end result.
"Shallow"? I read the thread and I made a comment. I was referring to the fact that the bookings were taking place solely because of what was written on the site. The item with the largest font was PRICE. I said what I felt and in no way would I consider it demeaning or shallow.
No one implied price except me. I brought it up. I'm not saying that he needs to change his price, but if EVERYONE is buying, that indicates to me (perhaps incorrectly) that price is not an objection, therefore I made the comment that money may be being left on the table.
I agree about referrals. They come with an implied endorsement. They are powerful. I was only looking at the casual shopper who buys the service based on a website visit alone.
No business exists in a competitive vacuum. People are shopping all the time. Even referred clients.
I'm not sure that a low price is "value added" but that's just me. Value added to me means something above and beyond what the client may expect.
Thanks,
Dave
Why shouldn't it be left on the table if it's not ours? We should take it because we can?
Dave,
I respectfully retract the "shallow" comment. The act of using price to determine quality or value is some what of a sore spot of mine. If a product is purchased by one person at price A and another at price B, is it not still the same product?
Members make posts almost daily about great deals they find on gear. Our response is usually something like "Great job!". Yet, the subject of a DJ giving a great deal is often followed by jeers.
Yes, there are many factors that shoppers use to make a decision and price plays an important role. After all, it is leverage...even when it's unintentional. I just don't believe that a high price speaks to quality and value anymore than a low one. How is anyone supposed to know if...
the seller is quoting a fair profit over cost and labor?
or
the seller is quoting the highest price over cost and labor that they could sell (convince) the consumer to pay?
That's just my opinion.
Sorry for the crack.
Hank,
Thanks.
I never wanted this to be about how MUCH any of us charges, but more about the market forces and how to determine where we fit. Most companies selling a product really spend an inordinate about of time at price point. Too high and nobody buys, too low and everyone buys because of price. I think the real key lies in that balance.
Charge what you are comfortable with, but never be complacent with it. If you invest in yourself, training, equipment and really grow into a great performer, then that should be reflected in your valuation. Tiger Woods continues to rake in more and more cash because he is the BEST and can charge that amount. That wasn't always the case, but could you imagine someone in his shoes never raising his rates?
Thanks for the replies. I never meant this to be about how much someone should charge, it was more like a lesson in economics for me.
Peace.
Dave
Thanks.
I never wanted this to be about how MUCH any of us charges, but more about the market forces and how to determine where we fit. Most companies selling a product really spend an inordinate about of time at price point. Too high and nobody buys, too low and everyone buys because of price. I think the real key lies in that balance.
Charge what you are comfortable with, but never be complacent with it. If you invest in yourself, training, equipment and really grow into a great performer, then that should be reflected in your valuation. Tiger Woods continues to rake in more and more cash because he is the BEST and can charge that amount. That wasn't always the case, but could you imagine someone in his shoes never raising his rates?
Thanks for the replies. I never meant this to be about how much someone should charge, it was more like a lesson in economics for me.
Peace.
Dave
No, I couldn't imagine that.
I also couldn't imagine third parties wanting to capitalize off of a Mobile Disc Jockey by sponsoring them, charging admission to their events, televising them or gambling on their outcome.
I never knew I was in that category. I'd better get an agent.
It could be that the client sees something they haven't seen somewhere else. If you have detailed information out there and links to Youtube videos, a Facebook profile or group, all the information they need to make an informed decision, references, etc mabye they have seen enough to be convinced that this person is better than thier competition and mabye it has nothing to do with price. People will pay for quality or percieved quality. I've driven BMWs and I have driven Volkswagens and in reality there is little difference in quality but you pay a helluva lot more for the BMW.
In the last few months I have looked at literally hunderds of DJ websites in preperation for the upgrade of my own. Now mind you my purpose wasn't to hire a DJ so I might see things different than a client but all in all there were only about half a dozen that stood out to me
Almost all DJ websites tell you how many songs the person carries. They also almost all use gigmaster or another booking search. They almost all have something about professional audio and lighting equipment and most of them use some feat tactic to get people to book (your DJ might not show type thing)
If STG is doing something different then that might be the reason for his high bookings of cold calls.
In the end he might not be leaving money on the table but taking money off the table that others left
In the last few months I have looked at literally hunderds of DJ websites in preperation for the upgrade of my own. Now mind you my purpose wasn't to hire a DJ so I might see things different than a client but all in all there were only about half a dozen that stood out to me
Almost all DJ websites tell you how many songs the person carries. They also almost all use gigmaster or another booking search. They almost all have something about professional audio and lighting equipment and most of them use some feat tactic to get people to book (your DJ might not show type thing)
If STG is doing something different then that might be the reason for his high bookings of cold calls.
In the end he might not be leaving money on the table but taking money off the table that others left
Dave,
I see what you are saying, but I think you misunderstand. In my initial post, I said that I always do meet with my clients if it is a wedding, unless they are out of state or something like that that precludes us meeting before the event.
I will only book non-wedding events site-unseen on the first call, which is what I was alluding to previously.
My only point is that my site, if that is how they are coming to me as opposed to a referral or whatnot, IS my pitch. When I talk to them, it is for the sole purpose of getting a consultation, and at that consultation, I just go through my packet of planning materials I give them to take, fill out a contract for them to take, and we're done. I don't end up discussing other services, why they should hire me, etc. By the time they have read my site and seen me go through my planning process they see very clearly what I bring to the table and why they should hire me if that's the way they are leaning.
Parents love me. If I am at a first-consultation with a bride and her parents, I'm leaving with a check!
I see what you're saying that I *could* be getting more... but I may be the only HONEST DJ here or anywhere else when I say that I honestly don't think my services to BE worth more than I am charging at any given time. My first wedding was done for $325, and my rates have gone up from there as my experience and comfort level grew, and as the quality of my equipment increased, etc. Once my prices passed a certain point, I was able to formulate my pricing based on the cost-plus profit model.
I guess I *could* (some may say "SHOULD") be "getting more" for what I do, but perhaps I am just not as opportunistic as some. As my end-result offering to the client continues to increase across the board, so will my prices!
I see what you are saying, but I think you misunderstand. In my initial post, I said that I always do meet with my clients if it is a wedding, unless they are out of state or something like that that precludes us meeting before the event.
I will only book non-wedding events site-unseen on the first call, which is what I was alluding to previously.
My only point is that my site, if that is how they are coming to me as opposed to a referral or whatnot, IS my pitch. When I talk to them, it is for the sole purpose of getting a consultation, and at that consultation, I just go through my packet of planning materials I give them to take, fill out a contract for them to take, and we're done. I don't end up discussing other services, why they should hire me, etc. By the time they have read my site and seen me go through my planning process they see very clearly what I bring to the table and why they should hire me if that's the way they are leaning.
Parents love me. If I am at a first-consultation with a bride and her parents, I'm leaving with a check!
I see what you're saying that I *could* be getting more... but I may be the only HONEST DJ here or anywhere else when I say that I honestly don't think my services to BE worth more than I am charging at any given time. My first wedding was done for $325, and my rates have gone up from there as my experience and comfort level grew, and as the quality of my equipment increased, etc. Once my prices passed a certain point, I was able to formulate my pricing based on the cost-plus profit model.
I guess I *could* (some may say "SHOULD") be "getting more" for what I do, but perhaps I am just not as opportunistic as some. As my end-result offering to the client continues to increase across the board, so will my prices!