Best Of The Best

[NLFX Pro]

I am just a little guy in a very big pond here but I am curious why nobody is taking about what speakers they are using with these amps....that makes a difference too.....

Just a thought....
If Peavey, EV, QSC, Crown or DynaCord would like to give me system to test in the sound reinforcement business for some of the local bands....I would gladly test them....Its Christmas after all!!!!!!

I'll put in a call to the North Pole.

The more I think about it the more fun I think it would be to HAVE an amplifier shoot out. Maybe ODJT sponsored (Dan?). EV/Dynacord have offered up an amp to test, I'm certain QSC and Crown would too... but something Thunder said earlier is echoing with me. He pointed out that the Peavey's cost less than the QSC, Crown, Dynacord, etc. The thread is titled Best of the Best, but maybe it should be Best for the Buck?

Some have pointed to amps that are even more expensive and no doubt superior. I guess that has me wondering... how can one really settle this? If price is what matters, why stop at Peavey? There are certainly cheaper amps, does that make them better yet? They make noise for less?

We can get in to grouded or floating bridge design, ringing, clamping, back EMF, A/B vs. H vs. D topology and all kinds of fun things but as soon as we start saying, well yes it's better but it costs more, then we're changing the rules.

I guess at the end of the day, it's up to what the user demands. I do not know of a single tour rider* nor a single consultant's spec for installed sound that calls for Peavey, where QSC, Crown and EV/Dynacord are on many. EV is going in the new Dallas Cowboy's stadium. I am not aware of a single major sports venue powered by Peavey amps. Am I knocking them? No. I agree with Steve, there is a place for them... but the people writing the specs and riders say that place is not on those tours or in those installations. Whether or not it's in your rack is up to you.

Ben

*The Jager tour does not count, Peavey sponsors it. No pay to play allowed.

 

[ahoustondj]

I am just a little guy in a very big pond here but I am curious why nobody is taking about what speakers they are using with these amps....that makes a difference too.....

Just a thought....
If Peavey, EV, QSC, Crown or DynaCord would like to give me system to test in the sound reinforcement business for some of the local bands....I would gladly test them....Its Christmas after all!!!!!!

There was once a guy who thought that he was sitting on the toilet. Wanna know what he did?

 

[USDJ]

I am just a little guy in a very big pond here but I am curious why nobody is taking about what speakers they are using with these amps....that makes a difference too.....

Old-skool noob here.......With my Crowns and QSC's I run combos of the following, all JBL speakers:

Mpro MP215 15" two ways....Pole speaker.
Mpro MP255S pair of dual 15" subs.
Pair of SR4718X 18" subs
Pair of SR-4732X full range cabs.
Last but not least,
SR-4719X dual 18" sub.

When all this rolls out, it makes for an expensive party.....but boy if they paid for the full boat treatment, they get it.

I do not get ANY complaints about sound quality, or that it wasn't as loud as they would like.

LOL it takes ALL of my full size Dodge hi-top van to roll the whole show, especially if they also wanted the big light setup.

Best,

Paul

 

[ahoustondj]

Old-skool noob here.......With my Crowns and QSC's I run combos of the following, all JBL speakers:

Mpro MP215 15" two ways....Pole speaker.
Mpro MP255S pair of dual 15" subs.
Pair of SR4718X 18" subs
Pair of SR-4732X full range cabs.
Last but not least,
SR-4719X dual 18" sub.

When all this rolls out, it makes for an expensive party.....but boy if they paid for the full boat treatment, they get it.

I do not get ANY complaints about sound quality, or that it wasn't as loud as they would like.

LOL it takes ALL of my full size Dodge hi-top van to roll the whole show, especially if they also wanted the big light setup.

Best,

Paul

Thats a great combo of speakers. I love JBLs but they have to have the proper processing to sound right. What other electronics are you using in processing and amplification?

 

[Michael Doucot]

Ben,

You are correct I have never used an Dynacord amp, I have owned and used a couple of EV amps (and yes that was some time ago) and wasn't impressed by them!

As for what is produced today versus what was produced yesterday I agree there is a difference. But as I stated I only have experience with what I have owned and used and can only state to the real facts about those products.

I have admitted that the Dynacord LX amps are in the same league as the QSC PLs and Crown Macros not only in the performance range but in the same price range as well!

Personally while I would love to have any of the three I am not going to shell out $2500 to $4000 for that privledge when a Peavey Amp at half or less of that price will do the job I need to do and last me for 20 years without a hiccup!

Personally I like to keep some of the money I make and invest it into retirement income and I am only looking at another 5 to 10 years at best before that time comes.

I said I was wrong about the Dynacord LX after I read the reviews posted by Michael, to be honest I couldn't really find any reviews other than "this is awesome" before Michael posted his links.

I never claimed that Peavey Amps were in a class with PL, Micro and Macro amps and honestly haven't seen anything on the Dynacord amps so making the claim that they are in that class with nothing more than saying they are in that class leaves a lot to be desired.

What would you say if Numark or American Audio made that claim about their amps without some sort of review to that affect. I think you would say BS!

Dynacord speaker systems I have seen though not very many and I think they are great! I however haven't seen any Dynacord amps powering those rigs.

Dynacord amps have protection circuits (just like many other amps including Peavey) you can short them have them go into protection and like the Peavey it will sit there and go in and out of protection mode without damage for a month. It doesn't prove anything in either case for or against Dynacord, Crown, QSC or Peavey or any other amp that has protection circuitry that is worth it's salt!

How many amps does Dynacord sell anually?

Over the last 20 years how many have been put in the market in any application?

There are test results and there is real world results. Dynacord has been producing amps for 60 years, yet for 39 years (better than half the existence of Dynacord) I have been involved with or around small time bands, DJs, Small sound companies and (yes you are right) never laid eyes on a single Dynacord amp! I have seen many Crown amps, QSC amps, Peavey amps, but not a single Dynacord amp anywhere! This is not a diss of Dynacord just an observation as to market share I am sure somewhere there are sound companies who are and have been using Dynacord amps, just none that I know of!

As for testing the amps I have a few small loads and a couple of os scopes, meters and a frequency generator nothing more and certainly wouldn't be able to do the sort of testing you are asking for! Nor do I have the education that would be reqiured to put those results together!

Steve - just an FYI Dynacord / EV amps are the same thing (just a different silkscreen on the front). Dynacord makes the EV amps in Straubing Germany. As far as who is buying and using them, I have posted several links to several of the largest events, tours and installs in the world for your viewing pleasure...Live 8, Live Earth, Led Zepplin reunion show, Kenny Chesney, AC/DC, Barack Obama's acceptance speech, Club Rain, Moon, Playboy, Pacha NYC, Space in Miami, Docks in Toronto, the new Dallas Cowboys stadium (opening next year), Utah Jazz....the list could go for days.

http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/801.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/881.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/904.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/888.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/545.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/874.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/718.html
http://www.electrovoice.com/pressreleases/447.html
http://www.electro-voice.com/pressreleases/270.html
http://www.goinfinite.com/pub/PDF/MD17-2_MOON_FINAL (2).pdf


I can provide some more if you'd like!

 

[Guest]

Michael,

As I said I have owned a couple of the EV amps (7600s) I didn't realize that they were Dynacord amps. What I will say is that I owned them for 3 years and to say the least they were less than satisfactory in their ability to hold up on the road. In three years time they had to be sent in for repair twice, both times the left side went down. The third time was the charm for me and the amps where given away. So has the build quality of the EV (dynacord) amps come up some in the last 7 or 8 years?

You see what I base my business on is the gear I have being able to perform each and everytime I set it up, I have had that with Peavey but not very many other brands regardless of the price! There is nothing more frustrating that setting up a system and then having to trouble shoot it or go back to the van and bring in a system that will work!

Now one of the questions I had was the market share that Dynacord carries, in other words how many people are using them?

I had a chance to listen to a friend's home stereo using a Manley amplifier and I would say it probably cost more than $5000, (hell each speaker probably cost that much as well) it was a great amp and the system sounded fantastic, but I don't think they have very many on the market today. I would almost be willing to bet their market share would be less than 1/10,000 of 1 percent.

Who is using Peavey sound gear?

Tim McGraw
New Orleans Jazz Festival
Chicago Blues Festival
Ground Zero Blues Club
Mississippi Delta blues club
2008 Summer Olympics

And way to many more to spend the time listing

 

[Michael Doucot]

Steve - I am not familiar with the 7600 amp you are referring to. You are a smart guy and I have no doubt that your previous experience with our amps was less than adequate. I am sorry to hear that anything we ever made was not perfect in every way possible. However, unlike what seems to be the case with so many of our competitors, we are improving our standards every day, while others outsource to China and hope nobody notices. I have been with EV for almost 5 years now so I know it was discontinued before 2004. Before EV and Dynacord were owned by the same parent company (once Telex, now Bosch) Ev made their own amps. Once Dynacord came along all EV amps were made by Dynacord (1998 or so?).

As far as market share is concerned, it is hard to say for certain. The only reliable tool that reports such things is a company called MI sales trak. This is only based upon US sales and is only using data from the retailers that report to them. This proves to be inaccurate for many reasons, but mainly it is due to the fact that if you are not selling your products through a particular retailer, you obviously get left out of the report. For example, we do not sell loudspeakers or amplifiers to Guitar Center...you can imagine the impact GC has on that report. While it is true that GC is an industry heavyweight - they serve only the music retail market. This leaves out HUGE segments of our customers which include touring companies, contractors, etc.

As you can probably guess, the majority of our amplifier offerings are geared towards those with a premium level of price / performance requirements. As a result, overall market share is nowhere near the level of Crown or QSC.

Most everything we build is made to be audibly better than our competitors offerings. Whether we are talking about a $300,000 Midas XL8 console or a $129 N/D 767 microphone - the philosophy remains the same. We simply do NOT cater to the masses and that is just fine with us.

If you want a $199 powered 15" 2-way speaker - call Behringer.

If you want the best? Call me.

BTW - do you know if those users of Peavey equipment you listed actually BOUGHT the gear?

 

[Guest]

Michael,

Sorry I misunderstood you when you said all EV amps were made by Dynacord and Dynacord has been producing amps for 69 years! Yes, the EV 7600s were probably before your time at EV but not by much I think it was in late 2001 when I purchased the pair.

As I said I have to base my experience with what I have used in the field and then decide on what holds up under use, the truth is the EV amps I had experience with just didn't cut it in the reliability department. Perhaps Dynacord has greatly improved their line since that time, I too am saddened by the fact that Peavey has sent all their amp manufacturing to China and I do think it will hurt them greatly.

 

[USDJ]

Thats a great combo of speakers. I love JBLs but they have to have the proper processing to sound right. What other electronics are you using in processing and amplification?

I use either a Dbx 223XL 2 way cross, or a Driverack PA. The Driverack usualy goes with the Denon Mixer, the 223XL goes with the Rane MP24X. I like the Denon DN-X500 mixer, however the Rane has a FAR cleaner EQ, and is more useful. The Driverack is more useful to me when I want to tri-amp the system... I run the 4719X sub, and biamp the 4732X. Many folks do not care how the DJ sounds, but my show sounds Really Good........and a lot of folks tell me so.

I'd like to find another Rane MP24X or MP24Z and sell off the Denon, however most of these have been rode hard and hung up wet by now...and a good one fetches ALL the money.

Best,

Paul

 

[sparkieg]

I finally found some pics online of the amps I'm running.

1 - Bi-amped rack of the older model Yamaha CP-2000 amps. (was a tri-amped rack before one died and bit the dust)

1 - Tri-amped rack of the older model "boat-anchor" Peavey amps that house one Peavey 8.5-C and two 4-C's.

1 - Tri amped rack that houses two Mackie M-1400i's and one Mackie M-800, which I am also attaching here.

I'll try and get some pics of the other amp racks once I get the amps put back in the cases. (I took them out and cleaned them the other day)

 

[Bill Hollick]

sNDmANsTV, Welcome to ODJT.
We talk about gear all the time here. You must have joined on a slow gear discussion day.

I think you've got some time to kill before your free test gear arrives. Make sure you come back and visit us here at ODJT on a regular basis to learn all you can about what to buy and what to avoid.

 

[sNDmANsTV]

Just to add to the mix

This is for FWIW....
I did a show this weekend and lost my monitor amp...it was a PV 8.5c. I havent cracked the case yet so I am not sure what happened. Adding to the list, the Furman power conditioner in FOH Rack has digital ac readout and it started counting down during the show. First for me. Out if the Peavey's, Carvin's Crown's and QSC amp I have run, the only amp I have ever had fail was the Carvin due to the weather. So I hope Santa is being generous this year!!!!!

Have a Great Day ALL!!!
sMs

PS. I found this link when I was surfing and looking at amps. It has to do with the Olympics and Crown.
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr177.htm

 

[Fred Wright]

SMS,

What was the type or model of the Carvin amp that failed?

 

[sNDmANsTV]

Not sure, I will look and get back to you on that...

 

[Ausumm]

to hell with the rest of the parameters
I voted for QSC
cause I don't want a hernia

 

[Precisionpower]

to hell with the rest of the parameters
I voted for QSC
cause I don't want a hernia

Huh?? You wouldn't want to move my tower of power then!!!
it's out right HEAVY now..All are light weight PLX and PLX2 series except one RMX 850....

 

[NLFX Pro]

to hell with the rest of the parameters
I voted for QSC
cause I don't want a hernia

Actually, I think you're right in the ballpark.

QSC, Crown and EV/Dynacord all offer high quality amplifiers near or under 20 lbs.

I know Fred likes an A/B with a Torroid, but SMSP circuitry has come so far and a Class H topologies are so much more efficient that the power to weight ratio becomes almost irresistible. As Mike said, it's good enough for ACDC. Between those 3 brands you probably have the power for 95% of the major tours in the US.

Ben

 

[sparkieg]

I found an older pic of an amp case where I was using the two Peavey 4-C's and one of the Yamaha's....just for grins n giggles....

And yeah - before you even ask - the rack is heavy as hell....pushing close to 200 lbs.

 

[DJ JohnThe1]

My machine of choice is QSC.. I ran these things since 1995. Now I only have two PLX's because my other system is all powered.

Mackie 1400i was decent for me and Crest made a decent amp in the early 90's as well.
Peavey is so 80's.. Past it's prime. Sorry Thunder.

 

[sparkieg]

John - never say never.....I put my tri-amped Peavey rack head to head with my tri-amped Mackie rack, both racks amps set for max headroom with volume controls set at max, with the sub amp Mono bridged pushing 2 EV sb180 subs, and the mains amps running in stereo at 8 ohms a side pushing 2 EV sx500's and 2 Yammie S115's, and the Peavey amp rack blew the Mackie amp rack out of the water. Distortion at high volume levels was almost painful with the Mackies....and smooth as silk with the Peavey's.

All processing (just for test purposes) was set flat across the board, on the racked EQ unit, the EQ controls on the back of the Mackies set flat, and the mixer EQ set to flat.

Highs with the Mackie's at around 109 db started to become harsh.

I also tried the same test by taking the EQ unit out of the mix and the results were the same.

Just my two cents.