What is a "real D.J."

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Proformance said:
That definition would include both my 4 yr old daughter with a toy, and the teenager with his car stereo blasting across the beach.

I think you have to define "DJ" as either something marketable, or a technical skill set not possessed by others.

To get labelled as a Disc Jockey - you either have a tangible entertainment service or a marketable skill set. Without one or the other you're just one more person with a record collection.
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Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment ;) : The actual skill set required to be a DJ is very small. All you really have to have is a basic idea of what songs go with each other.. For me that comes naturally as I guess is does for most of you.

Even if I expanded on my definition of a DJ and said: "The most basic definition of a DJ is someone whom plays a continuous stream of music for others to enjoy." The skillset required for the job is still very small. However I do agree, talent is needed in this profession.

Technically, a DJ doesn't need to be able to wire and troubleshoot his own system, in any other AV field that job would be done by an engineer. A DJ doesn't have to market himself as that would be done by a PR firm. A DJ doesn't need to keep his books as that would be done by a bookkeeper. We don't have to do all these but it behooves us to as it keeps operating expenses down considerably. If we were to hire out each of the jobs that your typical DJ does himself we'd probably be running in the red with nearly every show.

Of course, I realize we're talking about two different things here.. You're talking about an owner/operator who happens to be a DJ. I'm talking about strictly being a DJ. I could switch DJ with any other small business owner/operater and make the same argument I suppose.

I guess I don't quite know where the line got so blurred that many of us, even industry veterans, cannot step back and agree on a basic definition of "DJ".

Video montages and interactive games aren't in any way shape or form part of DJing yet many are up selling these services at a nice profit. For those that do upsell great for them however these thing are still not in the realm of strictly DJing.. You're better off calling yourself an entertainer rather than a DJ. :)
 
Proformance: To make this perfectly clear, your observations and commentary is absolutely fascinating to me. My questions are in no way attempting to bait you into any hidden personal agenda.

Where does monetary remuneration fall into your commentary and what importance does it play? Does monetary success such as being able to DJ as a sole income source profession, have any bearing on the definitions as stated in A and/or B.

It seems that one might be a "real DJ" yet a business disaster meaning that everything needed to perpetuate the activity needs to be funded from other sources, or the reverse, meaning the person is a "real businessperson" and the "real DJ" aspect is of secondary importance?

Lastly, where and how does customer/client opinion fall into the labeling or definition process of being considered a "real DJ"?

DeeJay Dan:
even industry veterans, cannot step back and agree on a basic definition of "DJ".
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Perhaps veterans, via industry and business experience, have come to realize it's:
a) not easy; b) impractical; c) impossible; and D) doesn't matter because it changes nothing.
 
Proformance said:
In those days, hit singles were distributed on 7" 45rpm vinyl, and peopl stacked them up on a special auto-loading spindle so that each song would play in the sequential order they chose.
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Proformance,
You're right, a person who decides on a specific order to play certain songs in is nothing more than a record changer.

Oh wait a minute, I forgot, deciding what order to play songs in is one of the most fundamental skills a DJ must learn. It even comes before such things as mixing and beat matching.
 
The actual skill set required to be a DJ is very small. All you really have to have is a basic idea of what songs go with each other.. For me that comes naturally as I guess is does for most of you.
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But, that only makes you musically entertaining it doesn't mean you have the skill set of a real disc jockey.

This is why the distinction between entertainment and actual disc jockey skills is such a hang up for people.

For selling purposes the most colloquial descripton for this minimal talent might be DJ and if this minimal talent matches the expectations of certain buyers then you now have a marketable form of entertainment which ordinary people relate to under the name: disc jockey.
Oh wait a minute, I forgot, deciding what order to play songs in is one of the most fundamental skills a DJ must learn.
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What's funny is that you call that a skill - it's actually a matter of preference and it goes to the heart of why many DJs perceive themselves as under-appreciated.
 
Proformance :
For selling purposes the most colloquial descripton for this minimal talent* might be DJ and if this minimal talent matches the expectations of certain buyers then you now have a marketable form of entertainment which ordinary people relate to under the name: disc jockey.
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Assuming "this minimal talent"* refers to elements such as music selection, order of play, mixing and beat matching, if a singular client or customer expectation of DJ provided services expands, then that becomes their new definition of a "real DJ" and if the collective consumer base expectations rise together, that becomes the new minimum criteria set or perception of a basic "real DJ"?
 
Proformance said:
But, that only makes you musically entertaining it doesn't mean you have the skill set of a real disc jockey.

This is why the distinction between entertainment and actual disc jockey skills is such a hang up for people.

For selling purposes the most colloquial descripton for this minimal talent might be DJ and if this minimal talent matches the expectations of certain buyers then you now have a marketable form of entertainment which ordinary people relate to under the name: disc jockey.
What's funny is that you call that a skill - it's actually a matter of preference and it goes to the heart of why many DJs perceive themselves as under-appreciated.
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Actually, I wouldn't call music selection and ordering a "matter of preference" because there is a lot of thought that goes behind it. It's not about saying to oneself "that sounds good" or "that DJ did that set, so I'm gonna copy." It's not just anybody that can use music to create those wonderful, memorable moments for people, whether it's a college party or a wedding reception.

Oh, what the hell...I'm either preaching to the choir or deaf ears.

I shouldn't have to explain the importance of music, its selection and ordering, and how it all affects different crowds...if you don't understand all this and you call yourself a professional mobile DJ, I've got nothing for you.:sqmad:
 
Where does monetary remuneration fall into your commentary and what importance does it play?

Does monetary success such as being able to DJ as a sole income source profession, have any bearing on the definitions as stated in A and/or B.?

It seems that one might be a real DJ yet a business disaster meaning that everything needed to perpetuate the activity needs to be funded from other sources, or the reverse, meaning the person is a real businessperson and the real DJ aspect is of secondary importance?


Lastly, where and how does customer/client opinion fall into the labeling or definition process of being considered a real DJ?
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I think your full time status or financial success speaks only to your business success, and over-all perseverance. You would do equally well pursuing some other talent you possess because you're primary talent is turning ideas into sales, and sales into income.

You can have the best cookie recipe on the planet - but if you don't know how to turn that into a marketable product while simultaneously protecting your self-interests you will fail.

When it comes to money, your talent only takes you as far as your persistence will drive, and your intellect or discernment will lead. Then there's the issue of your will, what exactly do you want too make of this?

Full/Part time is a matter of will, in my opinion; not one of talent. Financial success is independent of DJ success because we know too many people who derive much greater satisfaction from the practice than from the paycheck.


So, using Dan's persective as a template - I'd say: Yes, you need not be a great master of real DJ skills to succeed - so long as you provide whatever form of musical entertainment your customer's had in mind when they used the words: disc jockey.

Likewise, you could be the marshall of the art form's skill set and never leave your bedroom.

The only thing that really matters is that you position what you intend to sell in front of the right buyer.

If you are selling the: sequential play of a list of songs then you're going to crash and burn if you accept a job in a live event that requires you to pick & play 55 vocal free song riffs in 45 minutes thematically matched to the unscripted presentations happening on stage. This requires more than an ability to make a playlist.

If you want to remix every pop hit into a journey through the world of trance - then you'll probably crash and burn if you book an average wedding. A wedding requires an acute and professional meeting of the minds with your client rather than an intense musical or technical skill set.

This is how the difference between real DJ skills and what most people think of as DJ entertainment plays out. There's a professional DJ skill set - and then there's an entertainment practice whose level of professionalism is determined by the individual proprietors.

It's not just anybody that can use music to create those wonderful, memorable moments for people, whether it's a college party or a wedding reception.
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Perhaps not, if you just pull them in off the street. But how quickly do you suppose they could develop a knack for it? Couldn't a person whose been a guest at 32 Bar mitzvahs in the past 3 years develop a rather prominent understanding of what songs people seem to enjoy?

Isn't the ordinary person already displaying some of this discretionary talent every time they flip the radio dial to a better song? :)
 
One more time:

Mr. K said:
I think that it is due to the "elitists" that we have changed the definition of a "DJ," the same way we have changed the definition of "R&B."
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and I'll just add: sometimes, they are just not creative enough to create a new market for themselves; instead, they try to convince everybody else that a "disc jockey" has to be anything but a "disc jockey."
 
Proformance : My profound thanks for your thoughts, details, and supported arguments in response to my questions.

Although this has been like reading a fabulous book, it's time to get back to running my DJ business.
 
To be labelled as a "Disc Jockey" by God himself, you must be somebody who jockeys discs. I have no references to support this. It is correct because I say so.
 
Shouldn't that be god with a small g?

It would be a pity if you lost your title too a lightning strike over a simple error in deference.
 
Proformance said:
Well, then you're back to it all being about the music aren't you?

By and large however, the big money is with people who want to dance - and those who can make that happen.

Good background music isn't that hard to come by, and consequently it's price never really rises. When was the last time you got paid 5 figures to add musical "ambiance" to a cookout?
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Not true regarding money and dancing - I did a job in the Fairmont Hotel in SF for 60 people, the couple booked and expensive presidential style suite with a library everything . ..... There was a piano player $2000, $300 a plate and no one danced except the Chinese Lady cleaner who worked in the same room for Bob, Bing and Dean - she danced with me.

The bride did a quick Cowboy by Kid Rock on the tables and that was it - I was paid more than the piano player and was tipped $500 in $2 bills....... No one danced........

Bang goes that one ;)
 
Proformance said:
I think your full time status or financial success speaks only to your business success, and over-all perseverance. You would do equally well pursuing some other talent you possess because you're primary talent is turning ideas into sales, and sales into income.

You can have the best cookie recipe on the planet - but if you don't know how to turn that into a marketable product while simultaneously protecting your self-interests you will fail.

When it comes to money, your talent only takes you as far as your persistence will drive, and your intellect or discernment will lead. Then there's the issue of your will, what exactly do you want too make of this?

Full/Part time is a matter of will, in my opinion; not one of talent. Financial success is independent of DJ success because we know too many people who derive much greater satisfaction from the practice than from the paycheck.


So, using Dan's persective as a template - I'd say: Yes, you need not be a great master of real DJ skills to succeed - so long as you provide whatever form of musical entertainment your customer's had in mind when they used the words: disc jockey.

Likewise, you could be the marshall of the art form's skill set and never leave your bedroom.

The only thing that really matters is that you position what you intend to sell in front of the right buyer.

If you are selling the: sequential play of a list of songs then you're going to crash and burn if you accept a job in a live event that requires you to pick & play 55 vocal free song riffs in 45 minutes thematically matched to the unscripted presentations happening on stage. This requires more than an ability to make a playlist.

If you want to remix every pop hit into a journey through the world of trance - then you'll probably crash and burn if you book an average wedding. A wedding requires an acute and professional meeting of the minds with your client rather than an intense musical or technical skill set.

This is how the difference between real DJ skills and what most people think of as DJ entertainment plays out. There's a professional DJ skill set - and then there's an entertainment practice whose level of professionalism is determined by the individual proprietors.


Perhaps not, if you just pull them in off the street. But how quickly do you suppose they could develop a knack for it? Couldn't a person whose been a guest at 32 Bar mitzvahs in the past 3 years develop a rather prominent understanding of what songs people seem to enjoy?

Isn't the ordinary person already displaying some of this discretionary talent every time they flip the radio dial to a better song? :)
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I thought I was at DJA for a moment....

Just have a good time make what you will and take care of the clients - it's so easy
 
Not true regarding money and dancing ..
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Really?

You were told at the time you were hired that they wanted no dancing - or is that just the way it turned out?

The fact that no one danced doesn't invalidate the intentions or contingencies they had when hiring you.

Even if they said just background music you're giving us only one example, can you come up with 100 more in that same year?

Not likley, unless you're talking about trade shows and corporate events which have no dance floor.

An exception to the rule doesn't invalidate the general trend - dancing jobs pay better. If they didn't - DJs would all be advertsing their: amazing ability to keep the party subdued.
 
Proformance said:
Let me ask you this: "What is it that makes you a real DJ?"

Is it your ability to get hired? Is it your price? Is it your opinion of yourself? Is it the opinion of others? Is it the songs you pick or the order you play them in? Is it your proferssionalism? Is it your marketing? Is it your reputation?

Is it your music knowledge? Is it your ability to mix/edit? Is it your ability to over-dub? Is it your ability to read a crowd? Is it you're ability to play with musicians? Is it your ability to keep your mix within the running choreography? Is it your basic knowledge of music theory?

Here's the irony:
It's the second set of questions that would measure the skill level of a real DJ however, it's the first set that defines the success of a mobile DJ business.

So, DJ as Mr. K so aptly put it - can mean anything you want it too. All that matters is that you find an audience willing to accept your definition.
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The guests and bookers like me - period.
 
Dan can't this be closed? It's putting ODJA into other DJ chat board territory and that is not good.........

Same old story

Just have a good time at your DJ jobs and make sure the guests have a GREAT time - dancing or sitting - and you are a real DJ.

Charge what you will and be be happy......
 
I've gotta agree with Davy. This thread is heading the way of those evil forums...:monkeysad:
 
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