Advice on running everything on a generator

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Will a 5,000 watt generator be adequate?

  • Yes, it should be fine.

    Votes: 23 100.0%

  • No, you should get a 7,500 watt or 10,000 watt generator

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    23
mysoulishome

mysoulishome

DJ
Aug 11, 2006
722
14
Tehachapi, Californiaa
www.aaronsdjservices.com
I have an upcoming gig that will require me to run everything on a generator provided by the venue. I need general advice on whether this should work or not.

They are going to be providing a 5,000 watt generator and I am going to be running:

2 Mackie SA1521 15" Powered speakers, laptop, CD players, wireless mic, portable hard drive, 5 basic lighting effects on a tripod, and fog machine.

In your experience should this work or will I need more power? Will I be cutting it close?

Typically I like to separate music equipment and lights onto two separate circuit. I have done gigs on 1 circuit and been fine, which is why I'm hopeful that this should be fine. I'm assuming a 5,000 watt generator is as good as one electrical circuit will typically supply when connected to normal current?
 
I'm not a generator expert....you want to be sure that the generator will give you a good, clean source of power....I'd be worried about brown outs, drops....etc

I've heard that the Honda EU series are excellent as they are sine wave generators. They're very quit as well.
 
You need to figure out yer current draw first.

Lighting, fog machine and powered speakers are going to be your big draws -- the others are minor. A fog machine can draw a lot of power, and lights with 100+w bulbs will also draw quite a bit.

They should all have listings on them, that show their draw in watts and current (amps).

A 5kw gen, should easily run a small house. But you may have high surges on some of the lighting effects, and the fog machine, which might cause issues...
 
You've listed what you have, but not their wattage requirements.

I like the Honda too, but he's using the venue's generator...

Two answers here:

1) First, look at the labels by the AC input of every piece of equipment. There you will find the wattage requirements. Add them together, then add 30% for a safety buffer. That's the wattage that you require.

The wattage rating on the generator is max surge output. It's probably good for about 4100 watts. If your wattage requirements are less ( and I'm fairly certain they are) you should fine.


BUT

2) Generator power can be fairly dirty ( spikes, drops, AND frequency changes). Proper power conditioning is a MUST, not just for usage, but for PROTECTION. Some one will have to invest in a power conditioner ( not just a surge protector). This device will not only even out the peaks and valleys and provide a breaker, but will keep the AC on frequency ( 60hz). Do NOT allow yourself to be talked into depending on the the generator's breaker and a $20.oo surge protector. They don't care about your equipment, but it is your livelihood. Even if they have a power conditioner, I wouldn't trust it. The investment is worth it, as many venues have questionable power even inside.

BTW- I would check the generator in advance for age, power cleanliness, and NOISE. I would then check proposed locations for you and the generator to determine noise overlap.

Another possible problem that may be caused by the generator is speaker hum or crackle, which may require additional speaker line filtering.

If at all possible, I would set up and do a trial run prior to the date to determine ALL of your needs.
 
NorthernLightFX said:
Get a GOOD power conditioner. Furman Series II Pro!

Ben
Click to expand...

Ben,

Would this be necessary if you're using a digital inverter generator like the Honda? What about UPS's that have a voltage regulator built-in? Is this the same thing as the Furman? (Guess I should've attended your class in Vegas.....) ;)

Yes, I also have a Furman Conditioner in the rack.... just have to see if it's a Series II or not.

Thanks,

Joe
 
Alphabet said:
Ben,

Would this be necessary if you're using a digital inverter generator like the Honda? What about UPS's that have a voltage regulator built-in? Is this the same thing as the Furman? (Guess I should've attended your class in Vegas.....) ;)

Yes, I also have a Furman Conditioner in the rack.... just have to see if it's a Series II or not.

Thanks,

Joe
Click to expand...

As a general rule... no. It may be "inverting" the DC voltage back to an AC sine... but sometimes they do not do a very good job of synthesizing that wave. I'm pretty skeptical of those devices as it pertains to reproducing audio or video... but they do work. Still a very good idea to have a good power conditioner.

Same thing with a UPS... if it's an "active" or "online" UPS it is always running from the battery (DC) thus it is inverting or sythesizing that AC voltage. All UPS are NOT created equal. Look for a perfect 120V 60hz Sine +/- 5%. I STRONGLY recommend Furman's M1500 UPS because it was designed for AV applications. If you have something like that then you do not need a power conditioner because you have true galvanic isolation between you and the AC power source feeding the UPS.

Ben
 
Yes. The PL-8 does no Voltage regulation, but protects you from overvoltage. The AR-15 keeps that voltage right where it needs to be. Definitely the best choice with a generator.

The PL-8 is better than nothing, and better than the cheap power conditioners (that really only have a few MOVs and maybe an EMI filter if you're lucky). The "cheap" conditioners don't really do anything good, and actually can harm your gear.

Ben
 
Honestly, from my experience and in talking to some audio experts, never spend over $40 on a power conditioner. 99% of them don't do anything more then provide the same components as cheap wal-mart surge protectors. They all have the same 10 cent filter cap that cheapo surges have, but are being marketed as "conditioners".

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062574&cp
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515

Those EMI filters they advertise
http://www.excesssolutions.com/cgi-bin/category/11700

Check out number lie number 8

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

You could get a conditioner to protect from surge spikes, but thats all its gonna be good for. And for an AC regulator, no regulator within a normal person's budget would be able to handle amps let alone lighting.

My suggestion would be to make sure you get a quality generator, like a honda. Thats pretty much the only solution short of running a long extension cord.

Alot of my information was obtained through the knowledge of Bill Fitzmaurice on DJforums and is here cited as such.
 
I’m not an expert on generators but I do own two 5500 watt generators I use for outdoor events. I’m not going to try to worry you but before I got my own generators & used the clients, there have always seems to be some sort of problem with their generators. In one case they had 3 generators, 2 didn’t work first, they finally got one of the two working, then we found out their run time wasn’t long enough. Another time they had a 10,000 watt generator which should have been plenty of power but one circuit seems to not to working correctly. Of course in these cases it was the clients responsibility for the generators but I can tell you when you are standing in front of the audience and the power goes out, they’re blaming it on you.

One of my 5500 watt extended run generators will power my sound & 8 amp blower and not even reach 50%. But I always bring two generators if there is no A/C. I’m not chancing not completing a event because of a generator goes down.

As far running your sound, 5,000 watts shouldn’t be a problem but if you throw in lights & a fog machine I’d add up amp rating of each item to find your total draw. Also check and make sure how long the generator will run at full power before refilling.


Kevin
Andromeda
 
Brian said:
never spend over $40 on a power conditioner
Click to expand...
Huh? I would have to disagree with you on that. Thats like saying use the cheapest lock available to secure your equipment. My Furman AR1215 saved me literally thousands of dollars one day by protecting my equipment from high voltage whereas the caterer lost a lot of industrial size coffee urns and the band had their keyboards catch fire.

The bigger the generator the better. Not only will a bigger generator give you headroom, but the current will be more stable and even.

The fog machine will probably require the most power, with the speakers coming in second (depending of course on the size of the fog machine and what the '5 basic light efffects on a tripod' are).

.
 
DJBob said:
Huh? I would have to disagree with you on that. Thats like saying use the cheapest lock available to secure your equipment. My Furman AR1215 saved me literally thousands of dollars one day by protecting my equipment from high voltage whereas the caterer lost a lot of industrial size coffee urns and the band had their keyboards catch fire.

The bigger the generator the better. Not only will a bigger generator give you headroom, but the current will be more stable and even.

The fog machine will probably require the most power, with the speakers coming in second (depending of course on the size of the fog machine and what the '5 basic light efffects on a tripod' are).

.
Click to expand...

The AR-1215 isn't what I was talking about, thats a voltage regulator. Noticably different from their so called power conditioners. My point was that all of the rack mount "power conditioners" they well for up of $100 consist of the same components of a $5 wal-mart surge protector.

Perfect Example
http://www.zzounds.com/item--FURPL8II
 
Actually the component pieces would be of better quality than a Walmart surge protector because in order to get price point Walmart electronics uses lower quality components.
 
One of the biggest mistakes made with regards to generators is that people neglect to install a ground spike and cable to the generator.

This is incredibly important!

Be sure you ground the darn thing!
 
One other thing that is a MUST, with digitally based equipment in use, is a stable power line frequency of 60hz. If you aren't stable you could end up with some weird sounding audio artifacts to intermittent equipment operation to total equipment failure.
 
DougF said:
Actually the component pieces would be of better quality than a Walmart surge protector because in order to get price point Walmart electronics uses lower quality components.
Click to expand...

Doug, while I understand where your comming from, theres really no cheap 10 cent filter caps and MOV filters where as there are no cadillac ones. Its all the same, Wal-Mart is just making less money on their surges.

You could probably find every picece of "conditioning" equipment in a $100 furman surge for a fraction of the cost of a furman, I'm guessing around $10 or less. I am only talking about their "power conditioners" not the line requlators and such.
 
I won't argue the point as I have worked in broadcasting and electronics my whole life and have some idea what I'm talking about. THEY USE CHEAP COMPONENTS. ALL Walmart electronics are B or C grade inside.
 
Brian said:
The AR-1215 isn't what I was talking about, thats a voltage regulator. Noticably different from their so called power conditioners. My point was that all of the rack mount "power conditioners" they well for up of $100 consist of the same components of a $5 wal-mart surge protector.

Perfect Example
http://www.zzounds.com/item--FURPL8II
Click to expand...

Whoah!!! Brian... be careful here. You are making dangerous claims that Furman might find VERY objectionable. The Series II devices do NOT contain the same components as a basic Wal-mart TVSS. While you are right, many of the "cheap" power conditioners do just that... the series II is MARKEDLY different. Anyone who says otherwise, frankly is uneducated and should be very careful making commercial claims to the contrary. Monster just lost a lawsuit with Furman on this very issue. A basic power conditioner probably just contains some MOVs to shunt overvoltage to ground and an EMI filter... however, that's where they differ greatly from the Series II devices. I have a pretty busy day, but I will post a picture of a Series II circuit, as well was some SMAART live screen shots of the difference in performance. Unless the other "experts" can pony up some proof.. they should be careful making claims that are flat out wrong.

Ben
 
Okay boys & girls... class is in session. Here are 2 "power conditioners", I took the pictures on the same box to show scale. I agree with a portion of Brian's statement... SOME power conditioners are no better than the $3 Wal-Mart surge strip. HOWEVER... that does NOT apply to the Furman Series II.

Here we see a basic power conditioner - more circuitry is dedicated to dimming the lights than to conditioning power. I should add that this is one of the better "cheap" ones:

furman1.jpg


Here we see a Furman Series II. Note the protection circuit (not to mention substantially better construction all the way through) is rather sizeable and has it's various elements with large, robust components.

furman2.jpg


Now, for fun... I've compared their performance as a noise filter. This has nothing to do with the "surges" and how they are handled by a basic TVSS... that doesn't even warrant comparison. Those who saw the "burning" conditioner video we had at Mobile Beat can chime in on that. LOL

These are SMAART Live screen shots of the basic conditioner vs. a Furman Series II with LiFT. The blue line is the "reference" signal, and the green line is the conditioned signal. Notice the rapid and even decrease in the LiFT conditioner vs. the basic one which actually ADDS noise at some frequencies!!

SMAART_NonLiFT_web.jpg

SMAART_LiFT_web.jpg

I am all about the TRUTH. Believe me, I don't drink anybody's Kool-Aid and I won't lie for anybody. So let's put it all in the open. Open yours and compare. This could be fun. :)
 
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