Advice on running everything on a generator

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Will a 5,000 watt generator be adequate?

  • Yes, it should be fine.

    Votes: 23 100.0%

  • No, you should get a 7,500 watt or 10,000 watt generator

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    23
NorthernLightFX said:
Okay boys & girls... class is in session. Here are 2 "power conditioners", I took the pictures on the same box to show scale. I agree with a portion of Brian's statement... SOME power conditioners are no better than the $3 Wal-Mart surge strip. HOWEVER... that does NOT apply to the Furman Series II.

Here we see a basic power conditioner - more circuitry is dedicated to dimming the lights than to conditioning power. I should add that this is one of the better "cheap" ones:

furman1.jpg


Here we see a Furman Series II. Note the protection circuit (not to mention substantially better construction all the way through) is rather sizeable and has it's various elements with large, robust components.

furman2.jpg


Now, for fun... I've compared their performance as a noise filter. This has nothing to do with the "surges" and how they are handled by a basic TVSS... that doesn't even warrant comparison. Those who saw the "burning" conditioner video we had at Mobile Beat can chime in on that. LOL

These are SMAART Live screen shots of the basic conditioner vs. a Furman Series II with LiFT. The blue line is the "reference" signal, and the green line is the conditioned signal. Notice the rapid and even decrease in the LiFT conditioner vs. the basic one which actually ADDS noise at some frequencies!!

SMAART_NonLiFT_web.jpg

SMAART_LiFT_web.jpg

I am all about the TRUTH. Believe me, I don't drink anybody's Kool-Aid and I won't lie for anybody. So let's put it all in the open. Open yours and compare. This could be fun. :)
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Ben, I'll admit that you know your **** :sqwink:

My point, as you restated was that the basic power conditioners really don't "condition" power. I'll admit I was unaware that the Furman Series II was any different, but you learn something new every day. My main beef with furman is them advertising the Merit series as conditioners. I opened one up, and it was much like the first picture, except there was a circuit board the size of two playing cards in the middle, with most dedicated to the lights. I also opened up an ETA systems conditioner to change a bulb and was met with the same thing. I shouldn't have said "all" conditioners or even linked the Series II, as my intent was not to pull the "I know more then you" card, but to share what others have told me.
 
Brian said:
Ben, I'll admit that you know your **** :sqwink:

My point, as you restated was that the basic power conditioners really don't "condition" power. I'll admit I was unaware that the Furman Series II was any different, but you learn something new every day. My main beef with furman is them advertising the Merit series as conditioners. I opened one up, and it was much like the first picture, except there was a circuit board the size of two playing cards in the middle, with most dedicated to the lights. I also opened up an ETA systems conditioner to change a bulb and was met with the same thing. I shouldn't have said "all" conditioners or even linked the Series II, as my intent was not to pull the "I know more then you" card, but to share what others have told me.
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Thank you Brian, and I have to admit... you continue to impress me. We need more "youth" as interested in technology as you are. I completely agree with you on the Merit series, and a good friend of mine who is the Sales Manager at Furman and I have had this discussion. I basically said, "shame on you" when they introduced the Merit series. Whereas you and I may know our ****, many people do not and thus are easily confused (and taken for a ride). Furman felt they needed to offer the Merit series to compete with ETA and all the other "me too" conditioners. Their new Merit X series is better... but I stick to my guns by saying (and agreeing with you)... don't do it... get a Series II.

There are brand who claim that there's is just as good, and clearly it's not. For those who are unsure... pop the top! :)

Can we agree that rather than saying "don't spend more than $40" you should "not spend less than $100"? ;)

Ben
 
NorthernLightFX said:
Can we agree that rather than saying "don't spend more than $40" you should "not spend less than $100"? ;)

Ben
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Yeah based on your information I feel more comfortable with that. I was basing the $40 on the fact that again, all were the same. How about spend either under $40 or over $100. Anything in between is a waste.

thatmusicguy said:
What ever happens....no one invite him to NAMM...please......:sqerr:
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lol I won't argue with the sales reps I promise :sqwink:
 
Getting back to the thread....A 5KW generator should do everything you need.
I have run an RV grade Generac 4KW for over 10 years. The Key is CLEAN power output.
I also have a smaller Honda for little events (ceremony mostly and some parade floats) but my 4KW has run everything. Being it's RV grade, it's already filtered and regulated.
Just stay FAAAAAAAR away from those green or yellow construction style generators.
 
Brian said:
Doug, while I understand where your comming from, theres really no cheap 10 cent filter caps and MOV filters where as there are no cadillac ones. Its all the same, Wal-Mart is just making less money on their surges.

You could probably find every picece of "conditioning" equipment in a $100 furman surge for a fraction of the cost of a furman, I'm guessing around $10 or less. I am only talking about their "power conditioners" not the line requlators and such.
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Gotta disagree. I owned a passive component distributorship, and am an EE.

Were you to compare component quality of say, a Roederstein MOV ( top end) to a Meritek or Surge Components, you will find HUGE differences. Many of the lower end don't even meet the specs they advertise, while the top end exceed the higher specs that they advertise. BTW- Metal Oxide are not always zinc oxide.......

Resistors? Audio resistors are VERY different. Everyday resistors (metal film) are 50-100ppm ( temperature coefficient) and 1% tolerance. Top audio resistors are much lower. Some are 25ppm, but the best are 15ppm or lower, with a tolerance of 0.1% or lower. Ceramic caps the same way, with a coefficient of NP0 ( Negative/Positive 0% ), and a tolerance of 2.5% or lower. The temperature coefficient is an indicator of stability during temperature changes ( in electronics it's usually heat). Film caps? Metallized Polyester is the bottom, whereas, in a power supply, polycarbonate, or polystyrene are the most stable, with Polypropylene the high midrange.

A GOOD conditioner will not only control voltage spikes and drops, but will keep the frequency stable. These are worth every single cent that you pay for them- but you MUST do your homework to find the best....
 
This question

Depends on the circumstances..the equipment being used, the area and availability of resources. I honestly can't make a determination by a simple question.
 
We're running a Furman PL-Pro, the 20 amp model. It was suggested by someone on the boards years ago. We started with one of those cheap Carvin conditioners. We replaced it with the Furman because the Carvin model didn't filter pops from lighting switching and other line noises.

We'd be doing a show at a campground or other venue where the branch circuit was shared with a deep freezer or a coffee maker. Every time something switched on, it could be heard in the sound. Man, that used to really tick me off.

The PL-Pro keeps our sound quiet and isolated from AC line noise. At audio power levels this high, that's important. I like that. :)
 
Just to see for myself, I opened up my Furman M-8d, and what I saw wasn't pretty.:sqeek:

I attached a picture. My neighbor who is a trained electrician and the one who helped me build that fan panel I posted a while back also took a look, and said that I'd be very lucky if that held up in a minor surge let alone a large one. As soon as I can afford it, I'm going to upgrade my power conditioner.
 

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