To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!

Would better speakers help?

DJ Ronster

DJ Ronster

DJ Extraordinaire
I've posted before how my wife uses this system for her Zumba dance classes.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/harbinger-ha120-portable-pa-system

We don't really like the sound, but the ease of use with the mixer / amp is wonderful.

If we purchased decent speakers, would she get that much better sound or is the quality of the amp a big player in that equation? I'd look for speakers that are right for the amps output but a good quality brand.

Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.
 
These are passive, so you could look at other passive drivers - but you may be pleasantly surprised by what you would get out of using an active (powered) speaker.

If you're using that amp with those speakers, they should work 'well' with each other unless you're overdriving.

Note: the definition of 'well' is in relation to the type, brand, power and configuration of equipment used.
 
What is your budget? How many people are in her classes? How large a space are you using?

I assume about 50sqft per person in an "energetic" fitness class. That's about the right spacing for people not to kick each other, etc. I have heard this system used for fitness and dance classes. For a room that will hold 20-ish people (1000sqft)...this is fine. It's not going to be a rock concert, but the music will sound "good" at a reasonable level. And the instructors vocals will have some headroom room over the music.

Fender Passport CONFERENCE 175W Portable PA System

I have also heard this JBL system. It is OK for fitness and dance classes with 50-ish (2500sqft) people. Again, this will NOT be a rock concert. But it will be OK for a fitness class.

JBL EON208P 300W Packaged PA System

This is a comparable Fender system. I have not actually heard this system.

Fender Passport Event 375W Portable PA System
 
I've found most of the cheaper "all-in-one" systems are crap.
Go with one of the powered speakers with the built in mixer...
(as SoundInMotion suggested above)
Just make sure you get one that's at least 300 watts.
You can cover a huge room, and you won't max out the amp or the speaker.
 
Better speakers will be just that.... better, but asking the question here is like asking a group of lawyers. You'll get ten different answers to the question... and so far, no one has asked what you're plugging into your existing mixer.

Answers like "Take a look at Alto speakers" are not good answers. Alto makes some good speakers, and also some junk. Answers like "you may be pleasantly surprised by what you would get out of using an active (powered) speaker" are useless. Whether the amplifier is inside of the speaker or a separate standalone component is only a matter of convenience, not sound quality.

Instead of giving another scattershot answer, I'll ask some questions.

Are you playing music off of a phone, or does it come from a CD? Are you using one of the mono line inputs, or the stereo aux inputs? To control the volume, are you turning up the music source (phone), or just using the master volume control on the mixer? Is the system loud enough, or does it sound worse if you turn it up louder?

There are a few variables here that can easily affect the sound output quality. In general, and I'm sure you're aware of this, your current system is very entry-level but still serviceable. Swapping out only the speakers may help a little bit, but you're still at the mercy of an amplifier that isn't very robust to begin with.

Lastly: If you were to make some upgrades to the system, how much would you want to spend?
 
B-Sharp said:
Better speakers will be just that.... better, but asking the question here is like asking a group of lawyers. You'll get ten different answers to the question... and so far, no one has asked what you're plugging into your existing mixer.

Answers like "Take a look at Alto speakers" are not good answers. Alto makes some good speakers, and also some junk. Answers like "you may be pleasantly surprised by what you would get out of using an active (powered) speaker" are useless. Whether the amplifier is inside of the speaker or a separate standalone component is only a matter of convenience, not sound quality.

Instead of giving another scattershot answer, I'll ask some questions.

Are you playing music off of a phone, or does it come from a CD? Are you using one of the mono line inputs, or the stereo aux inputs? To control the volume, are you turning up the music source (phone), or just using the master volume control on the mixer? Is the system loud enough, or does it sound worse if you turn it up louder?

There are a few variables here that can easily affect the sound output quality. In general, and I'm sure you're aware of this, your current system is very entry-level but still serviceable. Swapping out only the speakers may help a little bit, but you're still at the mercy of an amplifier that isn't very robust to begin with.

Lastly: If you were to make some upgrades to the system, how much would you want to spend?
Click to expand...

Brendan, the picture he's showing, is his system. It's a 120 watt powered mixer (88w peak @ 8 ohms / 120w peak @ 4 ohms) with passive (110w peak) 8 ohm speakers. Changing the speakers won't help if he's overdriving them nor would it help the 88w sound any better than it already does - and switching to a powered speaker just may pleasantly surprise him in form and function. Considering each speaker is 25 lbs and the powered mixer is 19 lbs, it would also most likely weigh less.

Is is true that regardless of where the amp is, it doesn't change things if it's still crap. That said, unless you're buying very cheap powered speakers, it'll be really hard to find something that can't do better than what he currently has.

If you quote my entire line, I said:
ittigger said:
you could look at other passive drivers - but you may be pleasantly surprised by what you would get out of using an active (powered) speaker.
Click to expand...

This is a true statement considering what he currently has.
 
Last edited:
ittigger said:
Brendan, the picture he's showing, is his system. It's a 120 watt powered mixer (88w peak @ 8 ohms / 120w peak @ 4 ohms) with passive (110w peak) 8 ohm speakers. Changing the speakers won't help if he's overdriving them nor would it help the 88w sound any better than it already does - and switching to a powered speaker just may pleasantly surprise him in form and function. Considering each speaker is 25 lbs and the powered mixer is 19 lbs, it would also most likely weigh less.
Click to expand...

Points taken. But in dance studio environments, the equipment is never moved so speaker weight isn't typically an issue. And unless you know what they're using for a source, it's foolish to look at the last pieces of the chain to figure out where to make corrections. You can get a lot out of 88 watts if you want to. If the music source is somebody's phone plugged in by way of a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable and they've got the EQ set to "Hip-Hop" on the phone, it can't possibly make this system shine regardless of how much power is being put out.

At least whoever makes the Harbinger products isn't calling this a 1000W system.

ittigger said:
That said, unless you're buying very cheap powered speakers, it'll be really hard to find something that can't do better than what he currently has.
Click to expand...

Hence why I asked how much they'd want to spend on upgrades. If you've got $600 to $800 to play with and buy the Fender Passport system that soundinmotiondj linked to above, you've wasted your money. If you have only $400 and buy a pair of American Audio ELS GO BT8 speakers because tunes4046 recommended them, you'll be taking a huge chance- an 8" speaker with no published power rating will likely disappoint, especially in a Zumba class where the beats are thumping.

The reviews of the Harbinger system that Ronster has note a couple of interesting points: that everything sounds better and louder with a preamp added, and that the RCA stereo inputs likely bypass the EQ and effects circuit. A 12" speaker, whether passive or active, should be adequate. I'd be willing to bet that feeding the audio through a small line-level mixer first (the $150 Rolls RM69 or a similar unit) would make things sound much better.

Regardless, it's hard to make suggestions when the problem is "we don't really like the sound". Is it muffled? Distorted? Muddy? Too low? It's anybody's guess.
 
Thank you for this great info! And to answer some questions....

The audio source is generally a Samsung Galaxy S6 or a Dell laptop (maybe 2 years old)

The headphone jack is used in either device to run into the RCA "aux input" jacks. She has used an RCA to 1/4" Y adapter and plugged into the Line 1 1/4" input, which I think sounds better, but I don't like it when adapters are used. Just feels weird to me.

The volume is not an issue as it does get plenty loud, but when heard side by side with a powered speaker (Alto 12" 800 watt rating) using the same source, the powered sounds better.

I have a little Mackie 4 channel mixer and I will have her run that between the phone and the system and see how it sounds.
 
B-Sharp said:
Answers like "Take a look at Alto speakers" are not good answers. Alto makes some good speakers, and also some junk.
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree. I've had the chance to use them a couple of times this past year and was simply blown away by how lightweight they are and with lots of punch and clarity and at 1100 watts (peak, I'm sure), you're looking at miles more power than that Harbinger rig. I would think one of the 12s would be perfect for what she's wanting to do. Just velcro an iphone/ipad/ipod to the top of the speaker and you're good to go.
 
By and large, ALL of the MFR's make some good stuff and also crap. Compared to what he had, it may be better - depending on the actual source of the problem, which is what Brendan was trying to figure out. IF the amp / speakers are, then more power seems obvious. If the problem was the source, a newer more powerful speaker would probably not change that.
 
B-Sharp said:
the problem is "we don't really like the sound". Is it muffled? Distorted? Muddy? Too low? It's anybody's guess.
Click to expand...
Answer: It's Harbinger. I wouldn't expect quality sound for a system that goes for $150. I would replace the system with one decent $300-400 powered speaker myself. I saw a young acoustic duo use this system once and I felt sorry for them. A lot of young musicians got sucked into buying Harbinger because of the low price.

Harbinger HA120 Sound Package
 
Jas said:
I wouldn't expect quality sound for a system that goes for $150. I would replace the system with one decent $300-400 powered speaker myself.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that entry-level gear is usually "you get what you pay for". However, every once in a while you find a product that performs far better than its price tag would lead you to believe (and in some cases, far worse). A friend of mine plays acoustic guitar and believes that with the right tweaking, his $99 Kustom PA50 sounds as good as a Fishman SA220 costing 4x as much. The dbx goRack at $23 seems to be a steal for what it does. Would I expect quality sound from a system that goes for $150? Maybe, maybe not. I've certainly heard systems costing much more that sounded terrible (Carvin and Anchor Audio, I'm looking at you).

The problem with replacing two passive speakers with one powered speaker is that you'll now be running a mono program and the full-room coverage won't be as uniform. It'll be loud in one corner of the room, and less impressive everywhere else. Why would anyone recommend that a dance studio get by with just one powered speaker? We've already confirmed that the audio sources are not great and we don't even know the quality/bitrate of the tracks they're playing, so let's start there. Only when you've determined that the source audio quality is quite good can you start thinking that maybe the last piece of the audio chain is what needs replacement.
 
Which brings us to more questions. What size is the room? How are the acoustics? How many dancers are in the class? What's the budget again?

So far, I'm sticking to my story. One decent quality powered speaker would be better than the Harbinger system (a 2nd speaker could be added later if needed). Of course for any of us to know for sure, we'd have to be there doing an A/b/C test with several setups.
 
Jas said:
Which brings us to more questions. What size is the room? How are the acoustics? How many dancers are in the class? What's the budget again?

So far, I'm sticking to my story. One decent quality powered speaker would be better than the Harbinger system (a 2nd speaker could be added later if needed). Of course for any of us to know for sure, we'd have to be there doing an A/b/C test with several setups.
Click to expand...

I think his wife's needs are probably vastly different from us DJs. Just guessing, I'd say weight and size are probably more important than anything else. One of those Alto 12s will be very easy to move around, quick to setup and will sound miles better than the Harbinger. I doubt seriously that her workout classes are more than 15-20.
 
Alto TS210, TS212, and TS215 are the best sounding speakers under $499 per speaker. If she wants the best sound/best bang for buck, and lightest weight speaker. Have her buy a Alto TS210 or 212. 210 weighs 20 lbs. 212 weighs 28 lbs. Buy a cheap Alto Zephr or Harbinger 6 channel mixer to plug into it, and she can plug her phone or whatever into the little mixer, and she has a great sounding system.

If she wants cheaper, and blue tooth capable where she can connect a phone wirelessly...go with American Audio ELS 8 go 8 bt for like $170 at 15% off from a retailer online. Get's plenty loud for what she needs, and 18 lbs and battery powered. OR get the Bluetooth version of the Alto TS212...cost on that is $399 though (go on ebay and get it for under $350)
 
B-Sharp said:
I don't disagree that entry-level gear is usually "you get what you pay for". However, every once in a while you find a product that performs far better than its price tag would lead you to believe (and in some cases, far worse). A friend of mine plays acoustic guitar and believes that with the right tweaking, his $99 Kustom PA50 sounds as good as a Fishman SA220 costing 4x as much. The dbx goRack at $23 seems to be a steal for what it does. Would I expect quality sound from a system that goes for $150? Maybe, maybe not. I've certainly heard systems costing much more that sounded terrible (Carvin and Anchor Audio, I'm looking at you).

The problem with replacing two passive speakers with one powered speaker is that you'll now be running a mono program and the full-room coverage won't be as uniform. It'll be loud in one corner of the room, and less impressive everywhere else. Why would anyone recommend that a dance studio get by with just one powered speaker? We've already confirmed that the audio sources are not great and we don't even know the quality/bitrate of the tracks they're playing, so let's start there. Only when you've determined that the source audio quality is quite good can you start thinking that maybe the last piece of the audio chain is what needs replacement.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I would never recommend replacing 2 passives with 1 powered UNLESS she's getting a mono signal (l/r combined) and doesn't need 2 passives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top