Worked Out the New Gear

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oldschooldj

oldschooldj

Mac Daddy DJ
Jul 7, 2012
709
843
64
FT. CAMPBELL
I finally got all my new gear together in one big room, 2/3rd the size of a HS gym. I was very pleased with everything. Probably the most impressed with the EV-DCONE and the EV-TX1152's. I had four each EV-TX1181 subs running off a single EV-Q1212 amp and the EV-TX1152's running off a second Q1212. I ran everything flat on the EQ's, but in the DCONE I had to boost the TX1181's 5 db and pull back the TX1152's 3 db. I think a better match would have been a set of EV-TX1122's, which I have coming for the small room set up.

I have another Q1212 amp (3rd one) that is in a case with a Furman PL DMC, EV300 wireless and Rolls CD/MP3/usb player that I was going to use with another controller for small rooms with a pair of TX1181's and a pair of TX1122's. I did not have time to supplement the large room system with the 3rd Q1212 and pull a pair of the subs off each amp or try bridging two of the Q1212 into a pair of TX1181's each. The system sounded extremely smooth and powerfull, however as the TX1152's were really hitting thier stride the subs ran out of headroom. At that point the DB meter was reading 126 db, the sub amp was lighting the 0 db segments and barely flashing the limiters and the tops Q1212 wasn't even flashing the 0 db indicators.

If I was going to run this set off just two amps, I think the sub amp would have to be a minimum of a CP4000, the Q1212 is just a little lite in the britches to pull four 18" subs or two dual 18"s for that matter. I will know how much difference adding the seperate amp makes in both stereo and bridged mode in a couple weeks, when I get the building back again.

Don't get me wrong, I had more than enough power, it was to loud, in this room. Had I been in a full size gym or the convention center, full of kids, I would have run out of power on my subs with them on a single Q1212. I am really interested in seeing what the 3rd amp will do for the bottom end. You guys thoughts or comments are welcomed!! By the way the ADJ lights were great, I just need a bunch of time with the Chauvet Obey 70 controller to get schenes and chains worked up.

Ray J.
 
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Wow, some high quality gear there. After fooling with that sound system, how much per channel do you think would be optimal for driving those subs to your satisfaction? So they REALLY thump and have full low frequency response-without blowing up of course. Thnx
 
I am thinking 1000 to 1250 continous would even them out with the tops in a big room and sound great. The 1152's are just unbeleivable in the high notes and midrange voice response, without even being pushed.
 
I think each sub needs that amount of power available to it (1,000 to 1,250 continous), I guess the load would depend on how many you have per channel. The EV-TX1181 are single 18s at 8 ohms. I only have 600-700 available to each sub, using all four on an EV-Q1212. Putting them on two Q1212s would only get me around 750 to 900 per sub, so to get there I would probably have to bridge two of the Q1212s, but then you have around 1800 continous per speaker, which would require very close hold on the volume or you might have fried voice coil for breakfast :)

That is why I think I would have made a better purchase to have bought a CP4000 for the subs.
 
The new Peavey IPR5000 will put out 890wpc @ 8ohms if it ever ships. From what I've seen it will sell for $699. It might work well for the EV-TX1181 which is rated 500/1,000/2,000. I wonder if you would really notice any difference with an amp that was delivering 1,000 compared to the 890 from the Peavey? I imagine at those power levels and high sound levels, not much. It might actually be safer feeding 890wpc, less chance of overexcursion and fried voice coils. What you're getting out of those subs might be close to all that they have to give and it may be enough. If not, you might just need to add one more sub. Who knows? I wasn't there. If you're smart enough to buy all that top shelf gear, you're smart enough to figure it out. Good luck and let us know how things are going from time to time. What you have is better than probably 90+% of the DJs out there anyways whether you add any more amps or subs.
 
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I finally got all my gear in and set up. Had the same large room as I used in the above update. I tried many speaker set ups and amp combos, even bridged two of the Q1212 amps into a pair of the TX1181 subs each. The best sound was from the below set up. The stage is 12" inches tall.

The four TX1181s were centered (spaced laterally not stacked) setting in front of the stage with 1/2 seperation between the subs and the stage. The two TX1152s were setting on the outside subs with the voice coils in horizontal alignement. The two TX1122s were on tripods, spaced 10ft from the outside of each outer sub cabinet, on the stage. This put the center of the woofer on the TX1122s at about 8ft and their voice coils were 6ft aft of the subs and TX1152s.

I ran the DCONE set up for two Q1212s into a pair of subs each and the other Q1212 set up for the TX1152s and TX1122s togehter. I beleive it sent 40-120HZ to the subs and 120HZ up to the tops. I ran it up to the 0db just flashing, as that was too loud, even for this big room. The system sounded awesome. All the EQ gain structure on the mixer was set at zero 12 oclock. In the DCONE the tops were on 0 gain and the subs were on +5.

I can easily fill a gym or the convention center without adding any equipment and play the current kids music. Moving all four subs to the center created unbeleivable bass punch, the TX1152s setting down on the outside subs covers the bass rich area/dance area great and the TX1122s up and back covered the rest of the room. I don't know how phasing and delaying works, but the way I had this set up sounded great everywhere in the room and nothing sounded out od sync. One of you real sound engineering guys can chime in here and tell me what you think.

Ray J.
 
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Firstly, playing recorded music is VERY different than live band. A DJ should really match the amp rms power to the continuous power rating of the speaker. The successful live sound guys who surpass these ratings are running limiters to prevent overheating the voice coils and over-excursion. (The ones who are running limiters are damaging their speakers and drastically shortening the life of their speakers.) I wouldn't put much more than 750 watts into the Tour-X which just happens to be about the most powerful amplifier you can plug into a 15 amp wall plug and is the rating of the q1212. Strapping that to bridged mono to push 2,400 watts into a Tour-x sub and playing anything with an extended low bass note will cause damage rather quickly. Anyone playing dub-step or other so-called EDM "music" should probably run amps at the continuous rating of their speakers.

Center clustering subs is definitely something you want to do when possible. But I am not sure what your "1/2 separation" means. You typically want the subs packed together side by side and backed into the stage to prevent reflections.

Stacking a typical 2-way speaker over a single driver sub is not a proper setup. You want the tweeter up over people's heads so the sound can travel. In this case it's firing into the chest of people right in front of it and people behind them don't hear it. Put those 1152's up in the air! All you hear is the 1122's. Hopefully the 1152's up in the air can cover the room. If not, you can try aiming the 1152's inward toward the dance floor and the 1122's straight out, possibly toed out if the walls and aren't bouncing it right back and creating echoes. Then walk around the room and see how much cancellation there is. Don't pay too much attention to the 90 degree horizontal coverage spec, it's just a number that marketing uses. There are very few tweeters that actually provide 90 degrees of coverage and are probably closer to 75 degrees or less meaning you can use them side by side toed in and toed out depending on the acoustics of the room.
 
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What Scott H. said is spot on. Not because one has a collection of DJ speakers should one think that they can fill a Gym with pure natural sound. If one is going to be doing a lot of high powered Gigs like Gyms, arena etc. then one should look into different types of High Powered Systems made for that sort of application. The more people standing/dancing in front a Stage and the deeper back they go, then the more projection and power one will need. Regular DJ speakers projections die faster than their high projection counterparts.

If there is no choice than to use a cluster of DJ speakers to achieve volume, then one may want to look into using "fill" speakers with delays so that individual areas not only can be covered but there won't be a muddy sound once the area gets filled with people.
 
Scott,

It is like you read my mind on some of your post. I am thinking about trying a couple different set ups with the tops (1152 and 1122). I might put the 1122s on the EV poles on the outside subs, down front to get them in the air, then put the 1152s on the tripods where the 1122s were on the stage. The buiding I was in testing, this Sunday, was next door to a small church, their parking lot started picking up cars at 4:30, so I shut down as I did not want to disturb thier services. I did not get done with my church service and dinner till around 1:30, so my testing time was limitied.

The 1/2 spacing I used was just to keep the cabinets from touching and the stage is made to stack segements of 4x8 carpeted sections, so it vibrates a bunch, I did not want the subs touching it and adding weird sounds to the room.

With the system, as set up above, playing at a high volume (0 db light flashing often) I was pulling current peaks of 12.8 amps. My light show pulls between 5 and 7 amps, depending on what scene or chases I am running and the hazer pulls peaks of 5 amps when the heater kicks in. I can easily run off two seperate 15 amp circuits when using my full set up. The three large builds I will play in most often, two have independent 50 amp drops and the other has a 30 amp drop for the DJ/Band. I built a service box to plug into any 4 wire 220 plug that is out thier and wired it to keep audio on one phase and lighting on the other.

You guys continue to give me thoughts and ideas, new ones, parrots saying what the other guy said is just wasted memory on the mb.

Ray J.
 
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