Come on guys it was a joke!sqlaugh
I know you were joking I saw the
but, I didn't want the thread to turn into another three ring circus about Bose vs whatever system... so maybe I was a bit stern my bad.... forgetaboutit...
Thoughts on this setup...
- Thread starter jokerswild
- Start date
I know you were joking I saw the
but, I didn't want the thread to turn into another three ring circus about Bose vs whatever system... so maybe I was a bit stern my bad.... forgetaboutit...
That is true! When using an active crossover, the amplified signal should go directly to the speaker and have nothing in between.
You will never know what you are missing until you use an active 2, 3 or 4 way stereo crossover.
There are many ways to configure this put a typical 2 amp stereo setup would look like this (ignore the ` characters used for spacing) :
``````````````````````````=== mains amp === tops
mixer === eq === crossover <
``````````````````````````--- sub amp === subs
This setup uses stereo signaling all the way through for the tops, but runs the subs with summed output from the crossover and the sub amp in parallel input mode.
On my dbx231 crossover I select stereo mode (for the tops) and "low sum" (for the subs). On the high side I have a cable coming from channel 1 to channel 1 of my mains amp and another cable coming from channel 2 to channel 2 on my mains amp. Then on the low side I have a single cable coming from the channel one to my sub amp which is running in parallel mode.
Scott
``````````````````````````=== mains amp === tops
mixer === eq === crossover <
``````````````````````````--- sub amp === subs
This setup uses stereo signaling all the way through for the tops, but runs the subs with summed output from the crossover and the sub amp in parallel input mode.
On my dbx231 crossover I select stereo mode (for the tops) and "low sum" (for the subs). On the high side I have a cable coming from channel 1 to channel 1 of my mains amp and another cable coming from channel 2 to channel 2 on my mains amp. Then on the low side I have a single cable coming from the channel one to my sub amp which is running in parallel mode.
Scott
At this point I haven't bought anything and wont be until towards the end of May. So, I'm just trying to get a head start into what my options might be.
I have other obligations that have to come first.
I have other obligations that have to come first.
I just ordered the DBX 231 Dual Channel EQ and a DBX 223XL Crossover... got a good deal on Factory B Stock and Factory Re-sealed... $329.90 and free shipping....
Hopefully I wont be kicking myself for not ordering those from Ben but, I will be ordering the subs and amp from Ben for sure.... with this I'm just getting the small parts out of the way now in preperation for the big haul...
Ok so back on subject.... as I mentioned I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to the external EQ and crossover stuff... is there a good place for me to research setup of the two... I'd hate to be one of those DJ's who smiliy faces his EQ...
BTW my intended config is to place the subs together in the center with the tops on sticks at least 20' appart when possible. Unless there's a better way. So lets add speaker placement to this thread too.
Hopefully I wont be kicking myself for not ordering those from Ben but, I will be ordering the subs and amp from Ben for sure.... with this I'm just getting the small parts out of the way now in preperation for the big haul...
Ok so back on subject.... as I mentioned I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to the external EQ and crossover stuff... is there a good place for me to research setup of the two... I'd hate to be one of those DJ's who smiliy faces his EQ...
BTW my intended config is to place the subs together in the center with the tops on sticks at least 20' appart when possible. Unless there's a better way. So lets add speaker placement to this thread too.
I used to use DBX, but have been having great luck with DOD equipment now. I'm not sure exactly, but it looks and sounds alot alike....and it's alot less expensive.
You will get more bass db by placing them in the center with tops seperate, but since these babies pack such a punch, I've only used them that way a few times. I simply don't like the looks of 'stick mounts'...but that's a personal preference. When it's warranted, I pull the subs together, which is typically an outdoor event.
There is a thread here that had some great EQ and Crossover setting information.
You will get more bass db by placing them in the center with tops seperate, but since these babies pack such a punch, I've only used them that way a few times. I simply don't like the looks of 'stick mounts'...but that's a personal preference. When it's warranted, I pull the subs together, which is typically an outdoor event.
There is a thread here that had some great EQ and Crossover setting information.
I looked at the DOD stuff but, didn't really know their track record outside of guitar effects.
I also looked at Behringer and Peavy... they all seemed to have the same features with only cosmetic differences between them.
I'm going to search the site and see what I can come up with.... I hate not knowing something with certainty....
I also looked at Behringer and Peavy... they all seemed to have the same features with only cosmetic differences between them.
I'm going to search the site and see what I can come up with.... I hate not knowing something with certainty....
I only went with them after finding out one of my local sound guys (he does major sound reinforcments) here was using them and liked them alot. I then did some online review searching and liked what I read.
This is true. Bi- and tri-amping is much more efficient. Once you hear your rig bi- or tri-amped you'll never go back to full range sound. The control you have with your overall tone is so much nicer. Amps run cooler.
That being said, I'd like to add a thought: If a speaker system is not biampable from the factory, be careful about modding it to bypass the internal crossover. Some boxes are not biampable for a reason.
From everything I've read and seen it appears that without some sort of spectrum analyzer you pretty much set an EQ by ear starting at a 0db level or flat setting and either boost or cut frequencies minimally to tune the room.... is that about right?
Knowing what speakers you'll be using assumeing 2-way with summed sub in stereo for the tops how do you determine the proper crossover point and whatever other freq. cutoff settings?
Knowing what speakers you'll be using assumeing 2-way with summed sub in stereo for the tops how do you determine the proper crossover point and whatever other freq. cutoff settings?
Your subs are rated at 500 Watts RMS/1000 Watts Program/2000 Watts Peak
The Q99 is rated at 2800 Watts bridged mono at 4 Ohms.
I would daisy chain the subs and use the amp in bridged mono to have some headroom and real thump. If you use each channel individually you're going to be asking "Where the hell did the bass go????"
What if i ran in brided mode and just fed each sub from the A and B output according to the specs of the amp that would feed a peak of 1700 watts wouldn't that be fine too?
The SA is a very useful tool for mobile sound rigs. I'll demur and ask the folks who know more about them to comment.
As to crossover settings, start by rolling the lows off at or around 110 Hz. Your mid-tops should pick up at this frequency.
You'll want to run your lows amp from the summed lows out jack on the active crossover. For my part I suggest bridging your lows amp and feeding both sub boxes via a Speakon Y cable split or piggybacked banana plugs. You don't need stereo with bass frequencies.
An EQ used properly generally cuts frequencies not boosts them. Many a good speaker has been blown to hell boosting frequencies
By SA are you refering to a spectrum analyzer?
According to the manual for the Q99 if I'm reading it right in Bridged mode you feed Channel A and control gain of channel A and it then feeds Output A double the power... would I be better off in parallel in case I need to adjust the levels of the outputs independantly or for feeding additional amps?
Also using a y-cable brings a curious question to my mind.... would that still present an 8ohm load or would it make it 4ohms as if i daisy chained the subs together.... I think I know the answer as no it would still be an 8ohm load on the amp but just curious to if I'm right or not.
Rob,
I am not familiar with the EV amp (I got the info from their website) so I would talk with Ben or Michael Ducot about that. The way I run my CV's and QSC amps is from my DBX crossover summed mono out to the Channel 1 input on the amp and then the Channel 1 speakon (Wired properly at the amp 1+ 2+ where 1+ is the positive and 2+ is the negative) hook it up to the first CV and then run another speakon cable to the other sub. I use the Channel 2 XLR to connect to the other QSC amp and connect the other 2 CV subs to the other amp the same way as the first amp sub combo.
EQ'ing is simple don0t use it to boost just cut. Other minor adjustments can be handled by the mixers three band eq so you don't have to mess with the 31 band eq once your rockin'
I am not familiar with the EV amp (I got the info from their website) so I would talk with Ben or Michael Ducot about that. The way I run my CV's and QSC amps is from my DBX crossover summed mono out to the Channel 1 input on the amp and then the Channel 1 speakon (Wired properly at the amp 1+ 2+ where 1+ is the positive and 2+ is the negative) hook it up to the first CV and then run another speakon cable to the other sub. I use the Channel 2 XLR to connect to the other QSC amp and connect the other 2 CV subs to the other amp the same way as the first amp sub combo.
EQ'ing is simple don0t use it to boost just cut. Other minor adjustments can be handled by the mixers three band eq so you don't have to mess with the 31 band eq once your rockin'
SA = Spectrum Analyzer, yup.
Most pro series power amps are similar in design. Bridging combines both channels into one with roughly twice the power dissipation than that of stereo or two-channel operation. Typically, one channel attenuator is then assigned to the bridged output.
If by parallel you mean stereo operation, you'll be defeating the purpose of a summed lows patch. If you need to feed additional sub amps it should be easily enough done via parallel patching the input jacks on the amp. In from the crossover signal, out to the main amp. Parallel patch out to the slave amp. I am not a fan of this, by the way. I prefer feeding each amp directly from the crossover outs to keep things simple. But do what works best in your case.
Also, I prefer running amp attenuation at zero or full clockwise. Levels may be controlled at the active crossover. Once your crossover is set for the speaker systems you're using, you won't need to adjust it again.
If your sub cabinets are 8? each, a pair of them in parallel will present a 4? load to the amp. This will give you the maximum headroom your amp can offer. Amp headroom is important with the low frequencies.
Everything that has been recommended so far is the way to go. As far as feeding two amps with a summed low signal from the crossover, i would suggest using a "Y" connector out from the crossover. One side of the "Y" goes to one amp and the other side of the "Y" goes to the other amp.
The way mine is designed is, when I am using Bi-Amped (2 amps) configuration, I will only use two scoops (Bass Cabinets)with summed Bass Signal to one bridged amp driving the scoops.
For larger applications/more power & clarity.When I am using Tri-Amped I will use one amp for Highs, one amp for mids and a separate amp (Or two) for lows...left and right outputs (Not Summed) of the crossover to the left and right inputs of the bass amp using two scoops per side. Of course when I designed my system I took all these configurations into account so I choose to have each of my low frequency transducers 16oms each. Run in parallel per side it equals 8ohms.
Sometimes I will bridge two low amps so each one can run a pair of scoops each.
The way mine is designed is, when I am using Bi-Amped (2 amps) configuration, I will only use two scoops (Bass Cabinets)with summed Bass Signal to one bridged amp driving the scoops.
For larger applications/more power & clarity.When I am using Tri-Amped I will use one amp for Highs, one amp for mids and a separate amp (Or two) for lows...left and right outputs (Not Summed) of the crossover to the left and right inputs of the bass amp using two scoops per side. Of course when I designed my system I took all these configurations into account so I choose to have each of my low frequency transducers 16oms each. Run in parallel per side it equals 8ohms.
Sometimes I will bridge two low amps so each one can run a pair of scoops each.
