Projector choices

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sawdust123

sawdust123

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Nov 10, 2006
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My old projector is displaying black vertical lines that are annoying. It isn't too distracting for karaoke but it would not be good for movies. This projector was originally purchased for size (weighs under 2.5 lbs) but it is 2200 lumens. My wife wants me to replace it for doing backyard movie nights (and karaoke). Size and weight are not a concern this time. I think it is time to upgrade to an HD projector (but not 4K). I am also leaning towards a 3 LCD laser projector versus a traditional halide lamp with a color wheel. I am debating the throw ratio now. Should I go short-throw (ST) or ultra-short-throw (UST).

I have a 100" screen. The ST projectors require about 3 feet distance. The UST ones require less than a foot so you I would never have to worry about people walking between the projector and the screen. I understand that ultra short throw projectors don't perform well in moderate ambient light. In fact there are special ambient light reducing screens for this problem (and I don't want to buy one). However, I don't know on a practical basis what is considered "moderate" ambient light. I also don't know if going to a ST projector mitigates the problem very much. I was hoping someone here had more projector experience.

The projectors I am looking at are in the 3500-4000 lumen range. Compared to my current 2200 lumen model with a normal throw, I am thinking that I might still have a better picture on a standard screen with a UST given the same ambient light. Maybe I am wrong. Anyone have experience with this?
 
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I'm in agreement. I wouldn't go less than 4k lumens. If it was me, I would do 5k lumens. Laser is very affordable these days
 
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You definitely want to go with Regular short throw not a ultra short throw. Ultra short throw is really for indoors for for smaller screens under 144” and laser if you planning on using it everyday. Most Ultras are laser. I’ve been doing outdoors movie for 20+ years. For backyard movies I shifted to Short throws 15 years ago for my 9x16 screen Home Screen. My first two generations of ST projectors were in the 2500/3000 and plenty bright especially for the 9x16. My most recent upgrade is 4K and 4000 lumen. I hadn’t been using projection at home because the 4K picture on my TVs is so much better than my older projectors. The new projector now gives the same Quality 4K picture. I’d say it’s like when we went from VHS to DVD, there is no going back. If you don’t plan on heavy duty use laser isn’t needed. I’ve yet to have a projector need a lamp replaced, they go obsolete well before the lamp goes. Here is a old photo of when I used the older ST at the beach on a 9x16 screen in NJ.

D1A0BE83-934B-46B4-8664-FC051A25AED7.jpeg
 
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I am looking at something like the Epson LS300, Optoma GT5600 or similar. The reason I am leaning towards UST is karaoke. I always do a 2-screen approach with a small screen on a stand for the singer and a larger one for the audience. With UST, I don't have to worry about the singer blocking the projector. BTW, I don't plan on anything bigger than my 100" screen. I am leaning towards laser just because I think the problem with my old projector has to do with the color wheel alignment (after years of traveling with it). Laser seems sturdier.
 
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I have a lot of projectors lying around, a handful listed on eBay. I've got an 8500 lumen DLP Cinema projector with lenses (originally $30,000) you can have for a song - only it's probably not HDCP compliant, so movie night using Blu-ray might be a no-go.

I've also got a couple of 3500 lumen (4500 on brightest setting) LCD conference projectors listed for sale. Infocus models with a full set of lenses - Short, Medium, Long throw. Older models that will top off at 720P or 1080i. Also might not be HDCP compliant.

Christie 6000 lumen model with Medium throw lens, HDMI and HDCP compliant. Lens shift, 3D keystone, warping, and network ready. Still trouble shooting the control panel - think someone locked it out using the service menu which is only accessible using simultaneous network and RS232 connections. (Not at the top of my priority list.)
 
I think I really want to stay with utlra short throw right now (0.2-0.3 throw ratio). The purchase is not a priority right now since I don't expect to do outdoor movies for another few months. It seems like the metal halide units are both smaller and quieter than the laser units which I find kind of surprising. In reality, I will probably never use up the normal lamp life of a halide unit. However, I like the idea of forgoing a color wheel with a laser. I think I want native 1080p. I am seeing options under $2K and even under $1.5K for refurbs. Of course, I am still learning about the options that some of these units have. It looks like some are now basically smart TVs that can stream directly from the internet. That could come in handy.
 
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Follow up...
I put this whole issue aside for a little while. Something prompted me to start looking again and I noticed some things that I hadn't appreciated earlier.

1) Ultra-short throw lenses provide very little keystone correction. Typically under 5 degrees. That means you really must get the placement correct.

2) The short throw projectors (~0.5 throw ratio) can still offer +/- 30 degree keystone correction.

3) The cheaper projectors often only give you vertical keystone projection. The fancier ones give you horizontal as well. This lets you mount the projector off the center line of the screen.

4) Many projectors can flip the image for overhead (upside down) mounting. Since that is an option for me, it removes my need for ultra short throw capability.

5) The metal halide lamp equipped projectors operate about 6 dB quieter than the equivalent laser projectors. That would be noticeable in a quiet movie.

6) Many people use macro converter lenses meant for SLRs to give a standard projector short throw capability. It is a bit of a Rube Goldberg and it introduces some chromatic and spherical aberrations but is often in the passable range. Cost is under $50.

7) While LED projectors have 4-5 times the life of a metal-halide projector. I will probably never hit the 4000 hour mark for a metal halide lamp.

8) I found a full HD (1920x1080) projector that was 3800 ANSI lumens, with a 28 dBA noise level, with a short throw lens and weighing under 10 lbs for only $850. It is the Optoma GT1080HDRx. It seems to fit my criteria well.

9) After finding the above projector, I wanted to compare it to the one I had. I did a search on the old one and stumbled upon its repair manual. I decided to take it apart for grins and snickers. I didn't see any obvious problems so I just blew some air in it and put it back together. Voila! It worked perfectly and the black lines were gone.

Now my dilemma is that I have a working 13 year old projector with probably under 150 hours on it that is extremely portable. I hate the idea of relegating something perfectly functional to the dust bin. I almost wish I hadn't fixed it. My wife is telling me I should just buy the one I picked out. I think I will wait until the next time I need a projector to make a decision. After all, new ones keep coming out.
 
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Take it from a guy who has a plethora of projectors, 6 operational, and a couple of boat anchors of the 90s. The picture from the older projectors doesn’t compare to the newer stuff, especially to the 4K. You just have to figure out where you want it and that will determine what type to get. Let’s say you plan to put it where you will use it a lot like the family room then an Ultra short throw 4K laser would be the one to get if you have a screen under 150”. If you are moving it around then a short throw, with a regular lamp is fine, no need for a laser, go for the extra Brightness and save some money. You also use an ultra short too but it will be more money and may not be as bright. And you will be limited in screen size.

I have projectors with all of the adjustments, they are all regular projectors that have to be so far back, always hard finding the exact position can cause issues. But now the projectors go so close to the screen there aren’t any issues. But if you only have 150hrs, you aren’t using the projector, so the question is why? Then address that. My issue was our TVs are all 4K and who wants to look at a larger picture that isn’t as good as our TVs. Then we updated our main 4K TV which made getting a 4K projector was absolutely necessary. So I picked both of them up together.

I used to use a 10ft screen with karaoke as I started with Laserdiscs so it needed a screen which was considered huge back then. But I found it much easier to go with dual TVs even for some very large groups. Besides the nice symmetry, it also has the advantage of being used outside during the daytime. But a projector will give you the ability to do a much larger screen for movie nights. I’d said it would be a great use for a video projector beside karaoke. We used to have Outdoor Movies once or twice a week when the kids were young. Very fun, even had a couple of parties for the kids and their friends. The setup with the inflatable screen and audio was about 10 mins with the two kids helping.
 
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We had our first movie night last weekend. Went off great. Our movie of choice was the original Guardians of the Galaxy and everyone had a blast singing along to the tunes.

Getting ready for the party took some time. Like with DJing, you need to try things first long before guests are around.

The first time I turned on the projector, the instructions came up in Turkish. Changing to English required me using the manual to view the menu tree and find the language settings.

The next step was to build a custom mount that lets me easily attach the projector to the underside of the pergola. I also modified my screen a little to make it easier to hang.

The next issue was hesitation/buffering with my old Fire Stick. In fact I had never seen it perform so poorly. I figured it was the Wi-Fi signal strength under the metal pergola. I decided to use a brand new Wi-Fi 6 router instead of the older Wi-Fi built into the cable modem. That made a significant improvement but there was still some buffering.

I then upgraded to the latest Fire Stick 4K Max which was on sale for 50% off. OMG! What an improved experience. I suspect Amazon has uploaded firmware in the older Fire Sticks to make them perform below their original. It would not be unheard of. Anyhow, all is good now and people are asking when we can watch Rocky Horror.
 
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sawdust123 said:
My backyard.
Click to expand...
I've decided to hold off on the 9-29 movie night at my venue. I just can't afford the $500 to get a license (even though I'm not charging) and I'm paranoid that they'll be monitoring my social media pages, now that they know the date I was planning. I can't absorb a $30k-$50k hit, just to provide a free community service. I'm glad yours worked out so well. Kudos to you.
 
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They do go after people, charging has nothing to do with movie licensing. Every single one of my Outdoor movies 27 years were free to attend. The only exception is if it is your houses backyard for friends and family. Have 200 people in your backyard or put it your front yard then you need licensing.
A guy who works for me had an Outdoor Movie at his church, he had to use Swank. It really isn’t worth screwing around if you have assets. Or just have a small group in your backyard. With AI and search engine I wouldn’t be surprised if they scour the web. For the movies I show which might not be released on discs, they watermark the discs to track the movie along with password.

Mix, buffering usually has to do with your internet connect not feeding fast enough. it could be caused by your connection from the unit to your router or connection to the internet via your modem. usually it’s the router, a periodic update to your that usually works. Couple years ago I upgraded to a dual band mesh router, solved any issues we were having.
 
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