New subs; how would you configure it?

rickryan.com · Jul 21, 2017

I'm working at a new venue (for me), called "The Silo" in Hopkinsville KY, tomorrow. We're doing a 2Xphotog+DJ+lighting+photobooth gig. I'm supplying sound but one of my other DJs will be handling music/MC duties.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88653231c70790d3:0x767f2460cb84b779!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/the+silo+hopkinsville/@36.7908538,-87.4698559,3a,75y,303.64h,90t/data=*213m4*211e1*213m2*211s8NphiNZnIcEAAAQvxfbrPQ*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x88653231c70790d3:0x767f2460cb84b779!5sthe+silo+hopkinsville+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2s8NphiNZnIcEAAAQvxfbrPQ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBkvCaxJrVAhUFySYKHTpbA0sQoB8IhgEwCg

I have the new Alto TS212s subs. Jury is still out on them. Much less SPL but they should fit under the table very nicely. The cabinets are more of a wedge style ("V" cabinet) than a box. I'm thinking I'm down to 2 setups;

1) Put both subs under the table, with the sides right against each other. That would give me a 30 degree angle, not that it matters with subs which are omni-directional. I'd put my tops on crank stands, about 10-15 feet on either side of my table and back against the wall. My Chauvet colorstrips will be mounted on top with Martin Acrobats mounted on the poles, underneath the cabs. The cabinets will be 9 feet in the air. Basically, all you'd see are the tops.

2) Same config with the tops (spread out and back against the wall) but with one sub under each top. The sub poles I have are only about 4'-5' at their highest, so the tops would end up about 7' off the ground. colorstrips will still be on top with acrobats mounted underneath.

I'm planning to get there a bit early in the morning for setup and test, just trying to think thru it ahead of time. Any thoughts?

Albatross · Jul 21, 2017

rickryan.com said:
I'm working at a new venue (for me), called "The Silo" in Hopkinsville KY, tomorrow. We're doing a 2Xphotog+DJ+lighting+photobooth gig. I'm supplying sound but one of my other DJs will be handling music/MC duties.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88653231c70790d3:0x767f2460cb84b779!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/the+silo+hopkinsville/@36.7908538,-87.4698559,3a,75y,303.64h,90t/data=*213m4*211e1*213m2*211s8NphiNZnIcEAAAQvxfbrPQ*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x88653231c70790d3:0x767f2460cb84b779!5sthe+silo+hopkinsville+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2s8NphiNZnIcEAAAQvxfbrPQ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBkvCaxJrVAhUFySYKHTpbA0sQoB8IhgEwCg

I have the new Alto TS212s subs. Jury is still out on them. Much less SPL but they should fit under the table very nicely. The cabinets are more of a wedge style ("V" cabinet) than a box. I'm thinking I'm down to 2 setups;

1) Put both subs under the table, with the sides right against each other. That would give me a 30 degree angle, not that it matters with subs which are omni-directional. I'd put my tops on crank stands, about 10-15 feet on either side of my table and back against the wall. My Chauvet colorstrips will be mounted on top with Martin Acrobats mounted on the poles, underneath the cabs. The cabinets will be 9 feet in the air. Basically, all you'd see are the tops.

2) Same config with the tops (spread out and back against the wall) but with one sub under each top. The sub poles I have are only about 4'-5' at their highest, so the tops would end up about 7' off the ground. colorstrips will still be on top with acrobats mounted underneath.

I'm planning to get there a bit early in the morning for setup and test, just trying to think thru it ahead of time. Any thoughts?

For me, it depends how close the table is to the dance floor. I like to have the subs right on the floor if I can help it. So, if the table doesn't put you in a good spot, I'd run the subs under the tops.

rickryan.com · Jul 21, 2017

Albatross said:
For me, it depends how close the table is to the dance floor. I like to have the subs right on the floor if I can help it. So, if the table doesn't put you in a good spot, I'd run the subs under the tops.

I won't know until I get there but I suspect I'll be able to put the table against the dance floor. In my very limited test (in my garage), it seems these cabinets throw sound towards the front and very little behind. If I stacked 2 yorkies against my table it drove me nuts with volume. I'm hoping these dudes will throw more towards the front. I personally prefer the look of hiding the subs under the table and having just the itty-bitty tops showing. It always cracks me up when a guest comes up and says "Man, I can't believe you get some much bottom end out of those little speakers."

Handinon · Jul 21, 2017

rickryan.com said:
I personally prefer the look of hiding the subs under the table and having just the itty-bitty tops showing. It always cracks me up when a guest comes up and says "Man, I can't believe you get some much bottom end out of those little speakers."

I hear ya. I always got a kick out of that too! However, even though tops over subs is not optimal for sound (vs. clustered), I now much prefer it to the look of tripods. I don't care how you dress them up, tripods just don't look good to me. Plus, less "tripping" factor.

rickryan.com · Jul 21, 2017

Handinon said:
I hear ya. I always got a kick out of that too! However, even though tops over subs is not optimal for sound (vs. clustered), I now much prefer it to the look of tripods. I don't care how you dress them up, tripods just don't look good to me. Plus, less "tripping" factor.

I hear you. That's why I like backing the tripods back against the wall instead of up even with the table. I do like the look of speakers that are cranked high into the air, especially when I have lighting also mounted to the same tripod. I seem to have much less problem with tripping when I put the tripods back against the wall than if I try to hug them up close my table. I guess I also have gotten to not liking the "headphone" look of having a pair of speakers right up against the ends of my table. Personal preference I guess.

Handinon · Jul 21, 2017

rickryan.com said:
I guess I also have gotten to not liking the "headphone" look of having a pair of speakers right up against the ends of my table. Personal preference I guess.

Also agree - but if you move them too far from the table, you have to tape the wires down because you know someone's going to cut through. Dam pedestrians, there's no winning!

DJ Bobcat · Jul 21, 2017

rickryan.com said:
...In my very limited test (in my garage), it seems these cabinets throw sound towards the front and very little behind...

Garage is probably not the best place for testing[emoji4]... that said, I get the most out of mine if I can group them in a corner. Not easy if the nearest corner is far away from the dance floor. They don't seem to carry a very long way. The next best option is to group them facing forward as near to the dance floor as possible. I run my tops from the subs, on tripods about 10-15 feet on either side of the grouped subs. The XLR and power cables running to the tops from the subs are a nuisance, but it works. Since I have not had other subs, I got nothin' to compare to, but mine have worked out pretty good for me. Good luck with yours.[emoji4]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MIXMASTERMACHOM · Jul 21, 2017

I'm curious as to how those subs will do in a room that big. If that is the room in the picture where the reception is to be. With that much space in a room that big I wouldn't use the 2 subs underneath the table. I would use the poles for the subs and I say 7 feet should be high enough for the sound to carry. Please give us a review of the subs.

How many guests are expected to show up?

tunes4046 · Jul 21, 2017

MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
I'm curious as to how those subs will do in a room that big. If that is the room in the picture where the reception is to be. With that much space in a room that big I wouldn't use the 2 subs underneath the table. I would use the poles for the subs and I say 7 feet should be high enough for the sound to carry. Please give us a review of the subs.

How many guests are expected to show up?

Who cares mix you do realize you really only need the subs to carry to the dance floor

Cap Capello · Jul 22, 2017

When running extra subs to my L1 M2/B2 systems, I prefer to run the mixer's signal to them from a different line output than my mains, such a zone 2 or booth monitor.

In that mode, no matter where the forced DJ setup location, control is simple and instant, even per song if needed.

scgstuff · Jul 22, 2017

Just read another thread about subs...apparently the best way to configure is have a bunch of knobs on the back and twist those occasionally. :laugh:

But, I am interested as we have never run subs and we will be doing a wedding in October in a large barn. Thinking about renting 2 18" subs with poles from a local rental company and putting the 15" tops above them. This is the location:

steve149 · Jul 22, 2017

scgstuff said:
Just read another thread about ~~subs~~ DJing ...apparently the best way to ~~configure~~ "look professional" is to have a bunch of knobs on the ~~back~~ top and twist those occasionally.

Fixed that for you ..

steve149 · Jul 22, 2017

scgstuff said:
Just read another thread about subs...apparently the best way to configure is have a bunch of knobs on the back and twist those occasionally.

But, I am interested as we have never run subs and we will be doing a wedding in October in a large barn. Thinking about renting 2 18" subs with poles from a local rental company and putting the 15" tops above them. This is the location:

I'm not a fan of 15s over subs .. you'll give up a lot of lower midrange if you crossover properly. 12s or 10s would be more ideal, but if 15s are what you have .. then they will do.

Hopefully you can set up on the "dancing" side of the barn and just configure the subs to cover the dance floor .. otherwise, in a structure like that, you might get too much reverberation if you push them too much.

Handinon · Jul 22, 2017

scgstuff said:
I am interested as we have never run subs and we will be doing a wedding in October in a large barn. Thinking about renting 2 18" subs with poles from a local rental company and putting the 15" tops above them.

I don't know what the Rental Agreement will be, but I would not wait until the day of the wedding to try this out!!

scgstuff · Jul 22, 2017

The rental is anytime Friday until COB Monday and the wedding is on a Sunday so we will have time to configure and test ahead of time.

We have 15" tops and I didn't want to rent the 12s, thinking the 15s should work and save us some money.

We have met with the customer once already and plan on at least 1 or 2 other times before the wedding. They were heading out to the venue after our meeting to decide on the layout of their event. We talked about needing a spot next to the dance floor with electric available. We should get their layout at the next meeting.

PhaseIIPro · Jul 22, 2017

scgstuff said:
The rental is anytime Friday until COB Monday and the wedding is on a Sunday so we will have time to configure and test ahead of time.

We have 15" tops and I didn't want to rent the 12s, thinking the 15s should work and save us some money.

We have met with the customer once already and plan on at least 1 or 2 other times before the wedding. They were heading out to the venue after our meeting to decide on the layout of their event. We talked about needing a spot next to the dance floor with electric available. We should get their layout at the next meeting.

What kind of tops, and what type of subs? Do the tops have hi-pass settings on them? Not all powered subs have hi pass outputs on them. I'm sure that you know this already, but you don't want your 15's running full range if using subs.

scgstuff · Jul 22, 2017

PhaseIIPro said:
What kind of tops, and what type of tops? Do the tops have hi-pass settings on them? Not all powered subs have hi pass outputs on them. I'm sure that you know this already, but you don't want your 15's running full range if using subs.

They are Harbinger V2115 and they have a high and low EQ on the back. I planned on turning the low all the way down on them and setting the sound with the subs level all the way down so I can hear what the 15s were pushing, then add the subs in until balanced with some thump. Assuming that is the best way, but I have never done it before. Also, the pass through on the sub to the top has a 80Hz high pass filter, from what I read. I am assuming that would help as well? Still learning and loving all the info here.

steve149 · Jul 22, 2017

scgstuff said:
They are Harbinger V2115 and they have a high and low EQ on the back. I planned on turning the low all the way down on them and setting the sound with the subs level all the way down so I can hear what the 15s were pushing, then add the subs in until balanced with some thump. Assuming that is the best way, but I have never done it before. Also, the pass through on the sub to the top has a 80Hz high pass filter, from what I read. I am assuming that would help as well? Still learning and loving all the info here.

It's not EQ you're looking for, it's high/low passing crossover ability. Some speakers have the ability to set a high or low threshold on the signal .. the Harbinger does not. If the subs you rent DO .. then you'll run the signal to the sub, set the high/low pass so only 90Hz and above go to the tops, and you'll be good.

If the subs DO NOT have the ability to high pass, then you might want to rent a simple crossover as well. If you don't limit the frequencies going to the tops, then you may have an issue with the sub and the tops trying to cover the same area (usually that 60-200 Hz band) and it will normally sound mushy/boomy depending on the music.

rickryan.com · Jul 23, 2017

Okay, you guys wanted me to report back. Here's a pic of our setup.

We actually ended up setting up twice. I center-loaded everything at first, then the venue said the bride wanted to do her Grand Entrance thru the big door in the center. I ended up putting the 2, Alto 15" subs under my table and used tripods to mount a pair of QSC K10s, left/right with about a 35 foot spread. This room looks to be about 4k sq feet and we had roughly 150 in attendance. Now for the lowdown on the subs.

When I first fired them up, my initial reaction was they were under-powered. The 15s give a different tone than 18s. They don't hit as low. Also, on my Yorkies, I never turn them up past 33% before they start hitting clip lights. On these Altos, ran them 100% open but got to realizing they were drowning out the tops. Backed them off to 75% and they were perfectly balanced with the K10s and I never saw the first clip light. As the night wore on I got to realizing just how great and well-balanced this rigs now sounds. Even with the subs under the table, the volume at the mixer was perfectly acceptable. Out in the room, it filled the place with great, tight bottom end. For load, I setup another 2'X4' flatbed with 30" handle and 4" casters. These 60 lb subs were a breeze to throw on the cart. I'm wondering why in the world I hadn't done this before now. Considering that I got $1500 out of my yorkies and paid $1000 for these, even more so.

The one negative I'll mention is that Alto has one volume knob on the back and it's not indented. It's going to be hard keep that thing from getting broken off. What an incredibly stupid thing to do. They do have some push buttons in the back; phase, extended LF, and full range output. The extended LF seems to add more low end. Bottom line, I shed about 200 pounds from load, my subs fit under my table, and I like the tone much, much better. This was a great decision.

tunes4046 · Jul 23, 2017

I bought Yamahas DXS15's this week to replace my QSC HPR181's there is huge difference in the tone between an 18 and a 15 but the sound on mine was much tighter and more accurate

New subs; how would you configure it?

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