Lighting/Uplighting Questions For Your State/City

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ahoustondj

ahoustondj

DJ Extraordinaire
Aug 13, 2007
20,235
3,464
Texas
Excluding a small basic DJ setup consisting of 4 - 6 effects lights. Does doing an elaborate Light setup to include uplighting etc require an Electrician's license? What if something short circuits and causes a fire, would your DJ Insurance cover the loss? Does your DJ Insurance state in the Policy that you will be covered for ALL lighting? Are we just taking things for granted?


I remember in one of the Clubs I worked, the owner's Insurance Agent strongly forbade him from installing the lights himself. He had to hire a Licensed Electrican to do the work. The Electrician has his own Insurance Policy to cover any problems.

I think that DJs need to check with their City/State Codes to make sure they are not breaking the law. Sure, I know that everyone does it (That will be the comeback) but that does not make it right. Good Luck.
 
I think you are getting into three different issues with one question here. Let me do my best to answer them all.

1. Do you need a license to use uplighting, etc during an event. In a word? No. I know of no area (city, county, state, etc) codes that require an electricians license to plug lights into an existing outlet. As a reference there is no difference between your DJ lighting set up, and an uplighting setup. Another reference, LED units are often sold for home use, I don't think many home users are licensed electricians.

2. Do you need a license to install lighting in a club/bowling alley/etc. This depends. To go in, set a few lights on the floor, and plus them in? Nope. Not even if they are "permanent". Now if you have to rewire plugs, move plugs, add more circuits, etc, then YES without a doubt you MUST be a licensed electrician.

3. Will DJ insurance cover lighting? I am not sure on the issue of lighting placed on the floor or stands causing a fire, so check with your insurance company. What I am 100% sure about is that anything rigged over anyone's head that falls and does damage will not be covered by typical DJ insurance.

Hope that helps. If there is ever any doubt check your local codes. I know those are the rules in most Texas locales, but check your local codes!

Mike
 
Esoteric said:
I think you are getting into three different issues with one question here. Let me do my best to answer them all.

1. Do you need a license to use uplighting, etc during an event. In a word? No. I know of no area (city, county, state, etc) codes that require an electricians license to plug lights into an existing outlet. As a reference there is no difference between your DJ lighting set up, and an uplighting setup. Another reference, LED units are often sold for home use, I don't think many home users are licensed electricians.

2. Do you need a license to install lighting in a club/bowling alley/etc. This depends. To go in, set a few lights on the floor, and plus them in? Nope. Not even if they are "permanent". Now if you have to rewire plugs, move plugs, add more circuits, etc, then YES without a doubt you MUST be a licensed electrician.

3. Will DJ insurance cover lighting? I am not sure on the issue of lighting placed on the floor or stands causing a fire, so check with your insurance company. What I am 100% sure about is that anything rigged over anyone's head that falls and does damage will not be covered by typical DJ insurance.

Hope that helps. If there is ever any doubt check your local codes. I know those are the rules in most Texas locales, but check your local codes!

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. I am in Houston, Texas too. So if someone sets up uplighting at a venue and the light itself causes a short circuit because of overload and thus a fire, they won't be held liable? Will it be up to the Venue?
What we do in our private homes and what we go out and do professionally are two different matters.

Here is an example, not quite but similar. I am in the Art Business as a Dealer, Installer and Broker. One of my Interior Designers called me to ask if I can raise a Chandlier about a foot high at a home on which they were working. I declined to take that job because it involved messing with the electrical wires as well as the Chandelier hanging over peoples heads. At my home I would have done it without any problem. I don't even help friends install ceiling fans for that very reason.
 
Yeah, I think your example is dissimilar enough not to be relevant because it would involve rigging and actual electrical work. For that you should certainly have a licensed professional. Any time you are hanging anything over anyone's head, or dealing with electrical wiring (different from extension cables) you should be a licensed professional.

A better example would be if your ID called and asked you to come over and plug a light into a different wall outlet or plug in a light for her (into an existing plug). Would you do that?

Sometimes (even in this day and age) an accident is just an accident. From what I have been told (by my insurance company and a lawyer friend) is that there would be no liability here, and the insurance companies would most likely work it out. As long as there was nothing incorrectly manufactured, no negligence on your part, and the lights were being used for their proper purpose, there is no licensing needed to plug in a light (believe it or not as long as it is not "permanent" there is no licensing needed to hang things over people's head, although if it is not done correctly and fails there will be liability issues). Thus it would be up to the party filing suit to prove any of the above were a cause of the accident. Now you might be sued (as Ben has said, if anyone is hurt, they often sue everyone and sort it out later), but there would be no liability (please note this is not legal advice, just a conversation with a friend in civil law), most likely the venue would file on its own insurance or both insurance companies would work it out between themselves (if there was no injury). You would be just as liable as if your speakers overloaded and burned down the building, but it would not be a criminal matter because you were not a "licensed electrician".

Now to your specific example, if you overloaded the circuit (plugged more than 20A into a 20A circuit which for some reason didn't trip the breaker or overheated your wire and caused a fire) then you are certainly at fault and will be held liable.

But plugging a 1.5A LED light into a 20A outlet? No, you do not need to be a licensed electrician. Liability is a different issue than licensing. After all, would you be liable if your speakers overloaded and burned down the venue? Why would lighting be any different? Code wise and liability wise it is not.

Also keep in mind you need to tell your insurance company exactly what you do, so they can provide the proper coverage!!! If you hang lights overhead, etc tell your insurance company.

Mike
 
That bill was defeated. It was meant to provide licensing standards for architectural and landscape lighting installers. The problem was that it was overly vague and it was thought it could be applied to entertainment lighting designers. Thus the bill was defeated and will probably be resurrected next session in a better form.

Mike
 
Esoteric said:
Yeah, I think your example is dissimilar enough not to be relevant because it would involve rigging and actual electrical work. For that you should certainly have a licensed professional. Any time you are hanging anything over anyone's head, or dealing with electrical wiring (different from extension cables) you should be a licensed professional.

A better example would be if your ID called and asked you to come over and plug a light into a different wall outlet or plug in a light for her (into an existing plug). Would you do that? Yes! But I will first look around to see what else is plugged into that circuit. I have installed Picture Lights over Paintings but that is just plug in. If they want the lights to have wires go into the wall and connected to a wall switch, I would refer them to an Electrician.

Sometimes (even in this day and age) an accident is just an accident. From what I have been told (by my insurance company and a lawyer friend) is that there would be no liability here, and the insurance companies would most likely work it out. As long as there was nothing incorrectly manufactured, no negligence on your part, and the lights were being used for their proper purpose, there is no licensing needed to plug in a light (believe it or not as long as it is not "permanent" there is no licensing needed to hang things over people's head, although if it is not done correctly and fails there will be liability issues). Thus it would be up to the party filing suit to prove any of the above were a cause of the accident. Now you might be sued (as Ben has said, if anyone is hurt, they often sue everyone and sort it out later), but there would be no liability (please note this is not legal advice, just a conversation with a friend in civil law), most likely the venue would file on its own insurance or both insurance companies would work it out between themselves (if there was no injury). You would be just as liable as if your speakers overloaded and burned down the building, but it would not be a criminal matter because you were not a "licensed electrician".

Now to your specific example, if you overloaded the circuit (plugged more than 20A into a 20A circuit which for some reason didn't trip the breaker or overheated your wire and caused a fire) then you are certainly at fault and will be held liable.

But plugging a 1.5A LED light into a 20A outlet? What if there is already a lot of stuff already plugged into that circuit that you are not aware of? No, you do not need to be a licensed electrician. Liability is a different issue than licensing. After all, would you be liable if your speakers overloaded and burned down the venue? Why would lighting be any different? Code wise and liability wise it is not.

Also keep in mind you need to tell your insurance company exactly what you do, so they can provide the proper coverage!!! If you hang lights overhead, etc tell your insurance company. Good Advise.

Mike
Click to expand...

See the answers above in Blue.
 
Esoteric said:
That bill was defeated. It was meant to provide licensing standards for architectural and landscape lighting installers. The problem was that it was overly vague and it was thought it could be applied to entertainment lighting designers. Thus the bill was defeated and will probably be resurrected next session in a better form.

Mike
Click to expand...

Is that good or bad for the Licensed Installers? I would guess good, because then not just anyone would be able to call themselves an Installer without a license. Correct?
 
ahoustondj said:
Is that good or bad for the Licensed Installers? I would guess good, because then not just anyone would be able to call themselves an Installer without a license. Correct?
Click to expand...

Well there is no such thing as a "licensed installer". It all depends on what you are doing. If you are going into someone's house, hanging a screen on the wall and plugging in a projector there is no license available or necessary. If you go into their house, tear out a wall, install a recessed screen and plug in a projector, you would need to be a licensed contractor (but no license is necessary to specify or sell the equipment). If you have to go into someone's house and rerun electrical to get an outlet close enough then you would need to be a licensed electrician, but not necessarily a licensed contractor.

For example I specify gear, where it should go, etc for my installs. But, all my plans are reviewed by a licensed electrician who does the install, a certified rigger (because there is no licensed rigger) for temporary installs, or a licensed engineer for permanent installs. None of my work has to pass a building inspection (the way codes are set up in Texas), but it would if it had to. Also since I do not actually install any equipment I do not need a contractors license. But anyone who installs equipment (like Ben) has to have a contractors license and the appropriate bonding.

It is all very complicated, but all the average DJ needs to know is that he is in the clear plugging in some uplighting.

Mike
 
Interesting Post... I would have never thought of that... Scary how you can get yourself into trouble without even knowing it...

Thanks all for posting this info, even though it seems that uplighting cannot get you in trouble. the thought of doing anything 'extra' for a client, should require you to use some common sense and check your local codes... It never even crossed my mind...
 
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