Laptop help please!

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SoftJock Rick said:
OMG, the Apple things finally incubated out of their eggs, along with Lady Gaga... :sqerr:

My bad -- apples grow from seeds -- what was I thinking... yorofl:

Let's face it though -- Apples are for people who can't figure out how to use a real computer. They are the same people that buy Volvos, and hire people to change their light bulbs, and mow their lawns...

The other 90% of us, like to take charge of our own lives... :)
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Rick, can't we see eye to eye on the Apple thing? Please stop puttin' 'em down. BTW - how does one take charge of one's own life under the control of Microsoft?
 
SoftJock Rick said:
We could beat this one to death Freddy, but instead, I'll just say...

All my Windows computers work flawless 24x7, for years on end -- and they cost much less than yer Volvo :)
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I have homegrown Windows computers that rock too - my Mac rocks right along with em.
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Well, to get back on track then, think about this...


As DJs, many of us use computers as the sole source material.

Many buy very expensive gear setups, in terms of speakers, processing, lights, etc. Yet they skimp on the main source of their income -- playing music... :sqconfused:


I don't design software to be run on a Walmart PC, and I doubt you'd buy your speakers from Walmart either... ;) :)
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I said *nothing* about Walmart computers. While I sell many new computers, and my main computer is a desktop, my laptop (which doesn't get used a lot just because it's a laptop, not because of its' specs) is a Core 2 Duo business-grade laptop that originally came with 1GB memory and now has 2, running XP Professional. It runs beautifully, and I can't think of one program that I've wanted to install on it that it doesn't handle just fine. Despite integrated graphics and a "legacy" operating system, which, by the way, is still the most common -- by far --- operating system I have come through my shop.

Since it runs everything else I need darn-near perfectly, are you saying that I should go buy a new computer *just* so I can run software from SoftJock?

That would probably push most of us to deal with whatever alternative options there were.
 
ittigger said:
Agreed.

As a programmer, Rick has to make some assumptions when he builds his product. 1: If MS won't support an OS, how can you expect him to? 2: Most (if not all) Windows machines bought today are Windows 7. All vendors have had to rewrite their software from XP or earlier to be compliant with Windows 7. Most vendors also did not rewrite said software because of compliancy issues. They released a new version. Do you need 64 bit to run audio programs, no but Windows Media Player IS 64 bit on Windows 64 bit. I'm certain you use that at times.
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Excuse me? Do you even know the end-of-support date for Windows XP?

Directly from the Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet: April 8, 2014

That's right, full updates and support for Windows XP through 2014. Nice try though, most people here wouldn't catch that and would think that you actually had a valid point there.

:tbaffled:

You're making me defend this too much and make me sound like I'm anti-change. I'm not.

Some people get a new vehicle every year, just to have something new. Some people drive their car until it's not practical to because repair costs or hassle outweigh a new vehicle.

I'm not going to replace a perfectly good computer because one programmer requires something completely unnecessary for his program to function. He said it himself, he's putting the flash into his program to get sales. Smart from his point of view, but what benefit is this actually giving the end user? More than the hassle of having a buy a new computer? Hardly.

To be clear, I'm not talking about his program's current requirements. I'm referring to some of the future requirements he's planning that he has mentioned in this thread.

Rick, we might not agree on everything here, but I'd still buy you a beer. :)
 
awdj said:
I said *nothing* about Walmart computers. While I sell many new computers, and my main computer is a desktop, my laptop (which doesn't get used a lot just because it's a laptop, not because of its' specs) is a Core 2 Duo business-grade laptop that originally came with 1GB memory and now has 2, running XP Professional. It runs beautifully, and I can't think of one program that I've wanted to install on it that it doesn't handle just fine. Despite integrated graphics and a "legacy" operating system, which, by the way, is still the most common -- by far --- operating system I have come through my shop.

Since it runs everything else I need darn-near perfectly, are you saying that I should go buy a new computer *just* so I can run software from SoftJock?

That would probably push most of us to deal with whatever alternative options there were.
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Uhmm - I think the train fell off the tracks here.

One major point was that with the rollout of Windows 7, Microsoft will stop supporting Windows XP. As a developer, if Rick has no support from Microsoft, how can you expect him to keep developing a product for that platform? Even though alot of us still use Windows XP, there will be no support.

Alot (and I mean ALOT) of people still use Windows 98 - should he continue developing for that too? What happens when there are problems and he needs support from Microsoft?
 
awdj said:
Excuse me? Do you even know the end-of-support date for Windows XP?

Directly from the Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet: April 8, 2014
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Go back and read it again:
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-gb&C2=1173

Mainstream support end date - 14/04/2009
Extended Support Date - 08/04/2014
Service pack support end date - 30/08/2005
Windows XP SP2 - 13/07/2010
Windows XP SP3 - Support ends 24 months after the next service pack releases or at the end of the product's support lifecycle, whichever comes first.

awdj said:
That's right, full updates and support for Windows XP through 2014. Nice try though, most people here wouldn't catch that and would think that you actually had a valid point there.
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Full updates to 2014? XP hasn't had an update in FOREVER!!! Being that we ARE in the extended support and we only get security updates, how does Rick get support from MS? He won't unless he gives up all his beer money. Even if he did, how does he actively pacify Windows 7 AND XP when most other vendors (large companies) don't.

:tbaffled:

awdj said:
You're making me defend this too much and make me sound like I'm anti-change. I'm not.

Some people get a new vehicle every year, just to have something new. Some people drive their car until it's not practical to because repair costs or hassle outweigh a new vehicle.

I'm not going to replace a perfectly good computer because one programmer requires something completely unnecessary for his program to function. He said it himself, he's putting the flash into his program to get sales. Smart from his point of view, but what benefit is this actually giving the end user? More than the hassle of having a buy a new computer? Hardly.
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Completely agreed - but it's not one programmer. ALL programmers have had to update their SW to work with Windows 7 and guess what - there are no new versions for XP and as an added 'feature', it's not backwards compatible. This is where I'm coming from. Rick had requests to make his product work with Windows 7. In order to do that, he has upgraded his product - same as everyone else. To make that product backwards compliant (and function the same way) is a nightmare.

awdj said:
To be clear, I'm not talking about his program's current requirements. I'm referring to some of the future requirements he's planning that he has mentioned in this thread.
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As a developer, should he not keep his eyes open to what's coming and plan accordingly?
 
More info.. You get security updates in the extended time period. Nothing else.

Microsoft’s technical support lifecycle provides five years of mainstream support for all versions of Windows and five additional years of extended support for business versions of Windows.

April 2014 is when Windows XP SP3 will reach the end of its support lifecycle and Microsoft will no longer distribute security patches for it.

Down the road, MS will deliver another release, Windows 8, which will hit retail shelves exactly three years after Windows 7, in October 2012. And that’s when the clock starts ticking. Two years later, at the end of 2014, Microsoft will no longer permit OEMs to sell Windows 7. Customers can buy Windows 8.

The lifecycle includes two main phases:

•The Mainstream Support phase includes security updates, non-security hotfixes, no-charge incident support, paid support, warranty claims, design changes and feature requests, and access to online resources such as the Knowledge Base and Microsoft Help and Support.

•In the Extended Support phase, Microsoft continues to provide security updates, paid support, and online information. Customers who want hotfix support can purchase an extended agreement within 90 days of the end of the Mainstream Support phase.

•For Business and Developer products (which includes Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise editions of Vista), the Mainstream Support phase runs for a minimum of five years or two years after the release of the next edition of the product, whichever is later. Assuming that Windows 7 ships in 2009 or 2010, that means Vista will enjoy mainstream support until at least November 30, 2011. The Extended Support phase runs for an additional five years, so you can count on security updates for Vista until at least November 30, 2016.

•For Consumer products (which includes Vista Home Basic and Home Premium), Microsoft provides Mainstream Support only. Because the launch of the consumer version of Vista was two months later than the business launch, the support lifecycle provides for full support until at least January 30, 2012, or two years after the release of Windows 7, whichever is later.

The good news for consumers is that security updates apply to all Windows versions, so any security updates made available via Windows Update should be delivered to consumers and businesses alike, even during the Extended Support phase.
 
awdj said:
Since it runs everything else I need darn-near perfectly, are you saying that I should go buy a new computer *just* so I can run software from SoftJock?
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Possibly...

In its proper form, most people choose the software first, then they get the hardware and OS it will run on. That's basic Business Management 101.

Problem I see, is most DJs like to spend money on gear, and not computers -- although that is the source many are playing from. Seems kinda silly to me... :dontknow:




Back to the OS for a moment:

When I released V5 of my software, I had to cut major new features out at the last moment, because they would not work with XP. Other than the eye candy, there are loads of new features in Vista and above.

For example, the audio stack was completely redone and expanded -- that allows for a lot more functionality in my decoders. Had to trash those features!

The new video renderers are much more advanced than those in XP -- again, had to trash the code that used them.


I could continue to use all the old workarounds like ASIO and crap, but they are not needed anymore. More importantly, putting all those workarounds in to support antiquated hardware and OS's, makes for code that is not all that reliable, and very complex to maintain!


Given that I consider DJ'ing from a computer to be a fairly mission critical thing, I think it only fair, that the DJs use the hardware and OS that best supports their software. If not, they are limiting the developers from coming out with new features, and causing much unnecessary work (and buggy code) trying to be backwards compatible...

Your source is the most important part of your setup -- if you neglect it, then it doesn't matter how good anything down the chain is. In this case, the source is the computer, the OS and the DJ software.
 
ahoustondj said:
It is better to Special Order your Laptop with your own specifications as Business Equipment than to buy one off the shelf.
I purchased a Dell Dimension PC by special Order in 2004 and a Dell Inspiron Laptop (For DJing) also by special order in Jan 2006 and they are both running strong. I paid about twice as much for each because of what I specified. Next time I buy, I will do the same. I will never buy off the shelf.
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I paid $499 each for my Dell Laptops; they're 4 and 5 years old. One is XP with 1 gig ram, the other Vista with 2 gigs of ram....

They both run fine.....I'll always buy off the shelf....Why pay more?
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
They both run fine.....I'll always buy off the shelf....Why pay more?
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Do you also buy off the shelf speakers from your local Sears to DJ with...?

Probably not -- I think you use speakers made for DJ'ing (RCF, if I recall correctly).

Why would you use consumer gear for the source, yet place a higher value on the speakers, amps, mixers, etc...?


Isn't that what Canute does...? :sqwink: :sqlaugh:
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
I paid $499 each for my Dell Laptops; they're 4 and 5 years old. One is XP with 1 gig ram, the other Vista with 2 gigs of ram....

They both run fine.....I'll always buy off the shelf....Why pay more?
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Off the shelf is consumer grade. Special ordering is for the professionals! Besides which, they are two different machines. You cannot compare a Custom Tailor made suit to a store bought suit! :triwink:
 
eldjdelcaribe said:
I guess you don't know too much about upgrades and why do people do them instead of buying the laptop from the shelf.
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Yet he (Steve) always busts my chops on the Bose AWM which serves its purpose in more ways than many! :tribiggrin:
 
eldjdelcaribe said:
I guess you don't know too much about upgrades and why do people do them instead of buying the laptop from the shelf.
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Here we are playing the numbers game again... it's not *upgrades* any of us are talking about with professional equipment. It's the base model being vastly different than it's consumer little sister. You pay *more* for *less* memory/cpu/resources, generally, but it's a much better designed and tested system.

This isn't about upgrading your memory or hard drive.
 
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