Laptop help please!

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ittigger said:
You could leave all this on with an advanced graphics processor - all the hard work is handed to the AGP - and see no difference in performance. Without the AGP, the system now has to work that much harder.
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I don't like to seem like a big "disagree...er", but there is one other thing that bothers me. The reason for turning most of the eye candy off isn't because a computer can't keep up with it, necessarily, but the extra time to flutter a window down to the taskbar, or to flutter it up to full screen is, as sad as it sounds, enough to bother me. It's an extra .3 seconds, but when I click maximize or minimize, I want it to happen *now*.

So that being said, even with the best graphics card available.... I'd still turn off all animations in the Windows GUI.

You say "no difference in performance" - I say "extra time wasted animating things that don't need animating." -- ESPECIALLY for dj'ing!

:trirolleyes:
 
ittigger said:
You could leave all this on with an advanced graphics processor - all the hard work is handed to the AGP - and see no difference in performance. Without the AGP, the system now has to work that much harder.
Click to expand...

Its not called an AGP but a GPU, AGP is a long dead video bus type.
 
For this scenario, AGP is the same logic. Even in the AGP world, the more you could offload from the CPU, the better things were.
 
awdj said:
The reason for turning most of the eye candy off isn't because a computer can't keep up with it, necessarily, but the extra time to flutter a window down to the taskbar, or to flutter it up to full screen is, as sad as it sounds, enough to bother me. It's an extra .3 seconds, but when I click maximize or minimize, I want it to happen *now*.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the same as saying the computer can't keep up with it? Having said that, Windows is a software GUI so it will take "some" time to process that. The GPU / AGP / (insert your acronym here) will offload alot of that work from the CPU.

awdj said:
So that being said, even with the best graphics card available.... I'd still turn off all animations in the Windows GUI.
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I would too - but that's because I don't like the animations, it's not because I can't use them. There is a difference.

awdj said:
You say "no difference in performance" - I say "extra time wasted animating things that don't need animating." -- ESPECIALLY for dj'ing!
Click to expand...

Agreed - it is extra things that we don't need, especially for DJing but for the user that does like them, that additional horsepower would help. Let me add though, if you saw no difference between having the animations on or off, you wouldn't have this 'extra time wasted animating things that don't need animating' problem because there would be no time wasted - no difference. Would you still turn them off?

From the web:
A graphics processing unit or GPU (also occasionally called visual processing unit or VPU) is a specialized microprocessor that offloads and accelerates graphics rendering from the central (micro-)processor. It is used in embedded systems, mobile phones, personal computers, workstations, and game consoles. Modern GPUs are very efficient at manipulating computer graphics, and their highly parallel structure makes them more effective than general-purpose CPUs for a range of complex algorithms. In a personal computer, a GPU can be present on a video card, or it can be on the motherboard, or in certain CPUs, on the CPU die. More than 90% of new desktop and notebook computers have integrated GPUs, which are usually far less powerful than those on a dedicated video card.

For more information:
Graphics processing unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Gnome_globe_current_event.svg" class="image"><img alt="Gnome globe current event.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Gnome_globe_current_event.svg/42px-Gnome_globe_current_event.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/d/df/Gnome_globe_current_event.svg/42px-Gnome_globe_current_event.svg.png
 
There's also another reason for keeping the eye candy around...

My software, for example, makes heavy use of the theme coding built into Windows Vista and 7. Parts of the software will cease to function properly if stuff is turned off, or a Classic Theme is selected.

Most of the cool new stuff available in Windows, is only available when the neat themes are on, and it's only natural to want to use this stuff as a developer. So, you will start seeing more and more software, that will not function properly when you turn that stuff off... ;)
 
SoftJock Rick said:
My software, for example, makes heavy use of the theme coding built into Windows Vista and 7. Parts of the software will cease to function properly if stuff is turned off, or a Classic Theme is selected.
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Bad coding... I see a LOT of people that turn the extra crap off in Vista and Windows 7 -- especially Vista, since it was a hog to begin with. To require one to leave this enabled is an exceptional example of ignorant coding.

Sorry Rick -- I usually agree with most of what you say -- not looking to make enemies! :triconfused:
 
awdj said:
Bad coding... I see a LOT of people that turn the extra crap off in Vista and Windows 7 -- especially Vista, since it was a hog to begin with. To require one to leave this enabled is an exceptional example of ignorant coding.

Sorry Rick -- I usually agree with most of what you say -- not looking to make enemies! :triconfused:
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No worries -- I have no enemies... :)


But, I'm assuming yer not a programmer that sells direct to the public...

People want eye candy -- that's why they buy iPhones, iPads, tablets, etc. If you ignore what the majority want, then you've just narrowed your market by a large degree.

I could make my software command line driven, but it wouldn't be of much use to anyone -- and I wouldn't be able to afford good beer ;)


My next versions will REQUIRE Vista or above, with Themes enabled. It won't even be tested on earlier versions, because I'm using all the new features to make a better product. All the backend code is being optimized for 64 bit versions of Windows as well (it'll work on 32 bit, but it's optimized for 64).


At some point in time, you have to take a step forward, and not live in the past... :)
 
Rick-

You seem to be losing focus of the goal here... or at least what I HOPE is the goal. This isn't a replacement for iTunes (*shudder*) and the general public, this is almost an appliance type of software, for a very targeted demographic, with one goal: Play music, and do it well.

I bet if you ran a poll on here, the results would show that this target market would prefer a light-running, optimized, simple interface that runs on the majority of hardware out there vs. flashy eye candy requiring a *video* card upgrade to essentially do nothing but play *audio* - not to mention needing a newer operating system than I'm sure lots of them are still using today, *AND* "preferably" a 64-bit environment -- TO PLAY AUDIO?!?!

Let's get real here. Maybe I'm off-base. If majority shows that I am, then I will quietly sneak away from this conversation... but now my curiosity is perked and I want to know.

Thoughts from anyone else? Rick, obviously, feel free to comment back as well.
 
awdj said:
Rick-

You seem to be losing focus of the goal here... or at least what I HOPE is the goal. This isn't a replacement for iTunes (*shudder*) and the general public, this is almost an appliance type of software, for a very targeted demographic, with one goal: Play music, and do it well.

I bet if you ran a poll on here, the results would show that this target market would prefer a light-running, optimized, simple interface that runs on the majority of hardware out there vs. flashy eye candy requiring a *video* card upgrade to essentially do nothing but play *audio* - not to mention needing a newer operating system than I'm sure lots of them are still using today, *AND* "preferably" a 64-bit environment -- TO PLAY AUDIO?!?!

Let's get real here. Maybe I'm off-base. If majority shows that I am, then I will quietly sneak away from this conversation... but now my curiosity is perked and I want to know.

Thoughts from anyone else? Rick, obviously, feel free to comment back as well.
Click to expand...



Sure, I'll comment back (got some new White Hawk Select Ale today 8% -- WOO-HOO) :)


Anyway,

90-95% of my customers have never been on a DJ chat board. I can count the number of customers I have here easily, out of the <large number that I will not mention here> of people who buy my software.

It becomes a balancing act, and as a DJ, I'm sure you know exactly how that feels.

As far as tight running, resource NON-intensive -- I think I have the market cornered pretty well. I don't think there's anything out there, that can do the things my software can, with a lower memory and resource footprint. BUT, and a big BUTT -- when I introduced the skinning, and neat eye candy, my sales went through the roof!

So, the market you're describing, is perhaps 1/10000 of what my actual market is.

If you were me --- who would you code to? Would it be that select 1/10000, or would it be the majority that want eye candy, plus a well functioning program...? ;) :)
 
You bring up some great points. Understandable. But theme ability, and the requirements you're talking about, don't go hand-in-hand. Not necessarily, anyway.

You're the programmer and you know your market, so I'm not going to tell you what to do. Just keep everyone in mind when it comes to requirements. And I'm not speaking for myself when I say that - I don't have an old pile of crap computer, resisting change, etc. I just work on enough computers and talk to enough people to have a very strong opinion.

A *perfect* example of this bloatware, without mentioning the word "antivirus", would be Quickbooks. With the requirements that program has (not necessarily on the box. that's like saying Vista runs decent on 512MB) and how slow it runs on very decent hardware (say, a newer Core 2 Duo with 2GB memory running XP Professional -- very typical for accountants to have) it takes forever to open and in general has a huge footprint. Yes, they could keep buying newer hardware, but I've run it on new, current, fast hardware and still been surprised how slow it runs. Not to mention - what type of person is your accountant? Most are not the techie type at all.

And for what? To calculate number in a way that, really, a good PHP script probably could. I'd swear that they were rendering 3D models. Well maybe not quite that bad.

But again, I hear a LOT of complaints about Quickbooks, but the monopoly of their program more or less locks people into dealing with it because there really aren't any other options.

I'm done for now -- this is taking too much of my day. I respect you as a programmer, and know that you know your clients. Just don't get carried away. :)
 
awdj said:
You bring up some great points. Understandable. But theme ability, and the requirements you're talking about, don't go hand-in-hand. Not necessarily, anyway.
Click to expand...


Well, to get back on track then, think about this...


As DJs, many of us use computers as the sole source material.

Many buy very expensive gear setups, in terms of speakers, processing, lights, etc. Yet they skimp on the main source of their income -- playing music... :sqconfused:


I don't design software to be run on a Walmart PC, and I doubt you'd buy your speakers from Walmart either... ;) :)
 
Well it is true that 90% of people out there do use windows but not many of those use it for the reason you want it for which is DJing. Macs are the way to go if you do Audio, Web design, Vidoe or Photography. They just simply work all the time with not many issues. I have a Dell myself which has not given me any problems, the only reason I did not buy a Mac a few years ago was because I had never used one but after using one for the last two years and seeing my wife using hers, I will soon use my PC to hold up my books on the shelf. It was true what my friend told me a few years ago buy a Mac and your worries would be few.

The box said Windows XP or better....so I bought a Mac! :triwink:

I think your Laptop might have a memory issue which is causing it not to boot up but I may be wrong.
 
eldjdelcaribe said:
Well it is true that 90% of people out there do use windows but not many of those use it for the reason you want it for which is DJing. Macs are the way to go if you do Audio, Web design, Vidoe or Photography. They just simply work all the time with not many issues. I have a Dell myself which has not given me any problems, the only reason I did not buy a Mac a few years ago was because I had never used one but after using one for the last two years and seeing my wife using hers, I will soon use my PC to hold up my books on the shelf. It was true what my friend told me a few years ago buy a Mac and your worries would be few.

The box said Windows XP or better....so I bought a Mac! :triwink:

I think your Laptop might have a memory issue which is causing it not to boot up but I may be wrong.
Click to expand...



OMG, the Apple things finally incubated out of their eggs, along with Lady Gaga... :sqerr:

My bad -- apples grow from seeds -- what was I thinking... yorofl:


Freddy, I'm a damn fine capitalist, if I say so myself. If there was any money to be made writing Apple software, I would do it... ;)

Let's face it though -- Apples are for people who can't figure out how to use a real computer. They are the same people that buy Volvos, and hire people to change their light bulbs, and mow their lawns...

The other 90% of us, like to take charge of our own lives... :)
 
It is better to Special Order your Laptop with your own specifications as Business Equipment than to buy one off the shelf.
I purchased a Dell Dimension PC by special Order in 2004 and a Dell Inspiron Laptop (For DJing) also by special order in Jan 2006 and they are both running strong. I paid about twice as much for each because of what I specified. Next time I buy, I will do the same. I will never buy off the shelf.
 
eldjdelcaribe said:
On the contrary Rick, Mac's are for people who always want their computer to flat out work!!!!!!! :tribiggrin:
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We could beat this one to death Freddy, but instead, I'll just say...


All my Windows computers work flawless 24x7, for years on end -- and they cost much less than yer Volvo :)
 
awdj said:
To require one to leave this enabled is an exceptional example of ignorant coding.
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If that was true, we wouldn't have the advancements we have today. Vehicles are a prime example here. They make use of any additional features available at the time. Aren't you glad they have a heater you can use with the windows closed? Aren't you glad you don't have to fiddle with a carburetor anymore? Aren't you glad you don't have an 8086 to lug around to shows?

Microsoft makes use of some of this code all the time. Does that make them ignorant too? At that point, if you're not happy with Microsoft, why continue using their product (or anyone else's) for that matter.

The whole idea behind new technology is ... get this ... new technology.
 
awdj said:
Play music, and do it well.
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Agreed.

awdj said:
Target market would prefer a light-running, optimized, simple interface that runs on the majority of hardware out there vs. flashy eye candy requiring a *video* card upgrade to essentially do nothing but play *audio* - not to mention needing a newer operating system than I'm sure lots of them are still using today, *AND* "preferably" a 64-bit environment -- TO PLAY AUDIO?!?!
Click to expand...

As a programmer, Rick has to make some assumptions when he builds his product. 1: If MS won't support an OS, how can you expect him to? 2: Most (if not all) Windows machines bought today are Windows 7. All vendors have had to rewrite their software from XP or earlier to be compliant with Windows 7. Most vendors also did not rewrite said software because of compliancy issues. They released a new version. Do you need 64 bit to run audio programs, no but Windows Media Player IS 64 bit on Windows 64 bit. I'm certain you use that at times.

Let's also put out there that Rick does not develop software for Mac (that I'm aware of, maybe he's a closet Apple developer) - is that ignorant too?
 
awdj said:
A *perfect* example of this bloatware, without mentioning the word "antivirus", would be Quickbooks. With the requirements that program has (not necessarily on the box. that's like saying Vista runs decent on 512MB) and how slow it runs on very decent hardware (say, a newer Core 2 Duo with 2GB memory running XP Professional -- very typical for accountants to have) it takes forever to open and in general has a huge footprint. Yes, they could keep buying newer hardware, but I've run it on new, current, fast hardware and still been surprised how slow it runs. Not to mention - what type of person is your accountant? Most are not the techie type at all.
Click to expand...

Microsoft product. Need I say more? Office has the same problem and used to be alot worse!

A big problem in the IT world is that the companies are buying systems for general use and in some cases, not using them for general use. Example, OCR systems should be purchased as high end gaming machines - or equivalent. They need all that processing power for what they do.

Some softwares shouldn't be as demanding as they are but just like Rick, depending on their client base and what's available, that's how they code it.
 
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