Yea, I got that but my point was in editing speed. It surprises me sometimes at the amount of time a lot of guys will spend in making basic edits to a track. Coming from a recording studio background, if you're not fast you don't keep getting hired.
Just spent the night making custom first dance songs for weddings
- Thread starter DJ Ricky B
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Yea, I got that but my point was in editing speed. It surprises me sometimes at the amount of time a lot of guys will spend in making basic edits to a track. Coming from a recording studio background, if you're not fast you don't keep getting hired.
Working in radio is similar you need to do the edit's fast smooth and accurate. If you aren't experienced it would take some time and I suspect most DJ's aren't overly experienced in this area
The main reason their custom edit took me nearly 2 hours is because I kept messing up...putting the wrong song here, or I mixed into the next song like 5 seconds too late. Also I included downloading time in that. ...Overall, the 7th time I did this mix, I got it right.
Overall, I suspect that if I was using a program like Cool Edit Pro, I could have done this mix quicker. ...I was using VDJ 7 and recording my mix. My Podcast partner keeps telling me I need to start using Cool Edit for this stuff. We use Cool Edit for recording and putting our podcasts together.
I used to use Sound Forge but have switched to Audacity. On these types of edits, pull the first song in, clip the start/stop, then do 1 second fades on start/stop. Pull the next song in, clip, fade, repeat. Drag the sections to put them in the correct order, you're done. So with VDJ, how do you define the start/stop points on each song?
In regards to production and costs... you ask and let the client decide if it's worth it. If you'd like to compare to other high end companies, then you are incorrect in assuming that high end clients expect things to be included. If you go to a Longhorn Steakhouse, for 34.95 you get a ny strip, a salad, and 1 or 2 sides. If you go to Morton's Steakhouse, or any other high end steakhouse... the steak is $50-$60 the salad is $15, and each side is $8-$13... High End tends to be more a la carte, where low-mid tier tends to be all inclusive. Buy a Bentley, every little change has a cost... and you decide every finish... at a price.
But you have to put things into perspective in terms of the quality they receive with such a service. I have an actual person with knowledge in producing working on it... not someone with minimal to no knowledge just blending tracks. I do this weeks in advance so clients can practice and tweak it so they can choreograph everything perfectly, and so that on the day of the execution of it looks amazing in person and on video... raher than 2 people who just practiced 30 min before and the transitions are mediocre at best. Likewise when I do video montages, I sit there for hours making sure every picture has an effect and is centered on the subject, and that the transitions are unique and different, and that the song volumes are equal and the title screens are in accordance with the theme and colors. Other DJ companies (I know, bc I used to subcontract them), use the same transition on all the pics, use generic title screens, don't do any ken burns or crop features... you get a mediocre product at best. As for uplights... it takes 20 minutes to set up uplights (wireless battery), the high price is in the value and impression they create... these edits can take weeks if lots of changes are needed after each time they practice.
I am not saying you did a poor or mediocre job... in fact with the time you took and attention to little details, I think you gave a lot of effort, and as such... I believe you should be compensated for giving a higher quality product to your client (regardless of when it was sprung up on you). We sell like we shop... if you think that things should be included you'll think your clients will do the same. Change your selling habits and let the client decide. What's the worst that can happen if you say it has a fee... they say nevermind its not that important? You're already booked... and of course they can say $100 extra?, no problem, we really want it.
I really don't want to get into the planning thing. There are regional differences that play a role. Timelines here are much more structured since dancing happens between courses, and my productions can be bigger. However, I think to play it safe, it's better to start a little earlier, and have the major pieces in place and then over the next few weeks let them fill in the blanks at their own pace (give a deadline). The week of I just do a 10 minute run through. I have to point out this... some of you say you only need 30-40 minutes for a finalization. Why is it that I need 1.5-2 hours (for a sound only production). What is it that I'm asking that others are not? If we're looking to do things quick, we're losing out on creating an impression. If we're going above and beyond and covering all the details (especially the ones that no one would ever think of), we make our clients realize the value that we bring.
Exactly! The back and forth part to get the work approved and the ensuing changes are time consuming.
Time is of great value to me even if the consumer doesn't think so.
Again, if you spell it out in your contract as to what is provided for what is charged and what is considered extra, it goes along way to negating the "nit picking" and the "let's see what we can get out of them for free" mentality of the consumer.
Just listing "dj service" on your contract is not sufficient imo, and not only leaves you open to abuse of services provided, as I mentioned it also leaves you open to creating animosity on the consumers part as to what they expect and what they think should be included.
I make the mix as I'm mixing. I can look at the elapsed time, and know that at 1:30 into the song as an example I can use the sound effect that they wanted, and start the next song at :43...Play that song to 1:13, next sound effect, start the next song at 1:20, play that song to 1:55, backspin into their next song per their request etc. etc.
They don't want any dead air moments in the song...just enough time with the sound effect to prepare for the next part of their dance for the next song.
There's a production fee for that.
You are correct, sir.[emoji4]... at least where I'm concerned. I can do it, but I'm not fast. Maybe it's the tools I'm using (or not using), but like most things, you get better and faster the more you do it. Having never worked in radio, it's definitely not something I can do quickly.
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It would be so much easier with Cool Edit or Audition but there is a learning curve. even Audacity would be a step up from any DJ software
Taso pretty much explained it with his steakhouse comparison, but I'll add this: when couples are paying a $5 per person fee just to have cake sliced up at their reception, a $50 to $100 fee to produce a custom first dance edit is nothing, especially 3 days before the event is taking place. In general, and in almost any line of work, a "rush" fee is normal if something needs to be completed on very short notice.
From a business standpoint, that's generally not a position you ever want to be in. You're essentially giving up your own profits.
In today's world of online reviews,
What if a particular client felt that this song editing service should have been included. A client leaving a review just MIGHT say that although you did a great job on their wedding, they felt you were nickel and dime them because they asked you to make a quick song edit for their first dance, and you wanted to charge them an additional $150 to do it when they were already paying you $2,000 as an example to do their wedding. Not saying that it would happen, but it could. What if they dinged you on the review because of it? Would it be worth getting a 4 out of 5 because the client was un happy about the additional charge?
Do any of us actually discuss production fees with clients up front when they book "Hey listen, just to let you know, any editing to music I need to make will be a additional production cost if you need a first dance song edited?" Is this spelled out in your agreement? If it's not on the agreement, and since we are DJs, and selling them a SERVICE, the client might feel a single song edit is reasonable to be included in the cost of booking you.
CLients hire us for our musical mixing ability. They don't know any producers, so we are the logical go to person to ask if they want a song edited. If we are charging, the fees might need to be laid out on our agreement that they signed in case the situation arises so that we protect ourselves from any surprise review after the big day in case they felt we were just trying to hit them up for more money.
Clients that understand quality, understand when things require more work than expected, and that typically it comes with a fee. People looking for deals expect everything to be included. How about this... you're including a "light show" in my contract... at the time of the finalization I say, well mr. dj... in my light show I want a spot light for my first dance, and during dinner i want the lights to be blue on the ceiling bc I find it more appropriate for my desired atmosphere... and also cause I saw it on youtube/pinterest and I thought it was amazing. Wait... what do you mean your lights cant do that... what do you mean you have to charge me more to rent those lights and bring in a dmx programmer/light tech. How am I the client supposed to know what the difference in one light show is from the next?
It's all about creating the proper expectation of what is involved based on the desires of the client. When I explain what is involved, clients understand the reasoning behind the extra cost, and that if they want one song to just fade into the other then thats one thing... but if they want a choreographed medley with everything precisely timed and transitions to be down to the beat... that requires something more intensive, and as such an additional fee is necessary to do it as expected.
Again, you're thinking how you would react. When clients pay $1950 to book my services for 4 hours... it states they just get me as the dj/mc for 4 hours and a sound system. If they feel lighting should be included at that price... they can find someone else to include it... not me.
The timing for this question couldn't be better. On April 8th, I did a wedding reception at a venue that offers an "All-Inclusive" wedding package - in includes flowers, photography, some food discounts and of course, the DJ. The couple pays the venue, and the venue pays the vendors for their services; it's one-stop shopping. Because the couple was also having their ceremony at this venue and this would incur some extra time and gear, I told the couple that there'd be an additional charge, separate from the package, to cover my services during their ceremony. They understood completely, and I added the ceremony sound reinforcement to their event details.
During our detail meeting approximately 21 days before the wedding, the couple asked what I could do to light up the stage area during the reception. I suggested adding some uplighting to the stage, and mentioned that there'd be an additional charge of $300 if they wanted to go with this option. Again, no problem. I sent the invoice for this service and the ceremony sound, and they paid it promptly.
They had a great wedding. Here's the review the groom posted tonight on WeddingWire, The Knot, Facebook, Google and Yelp:
Brendan made the process so unbelievably easy for us that I couldn't recommend him more highly. He set up an account for us on his website where we could browse his entire music library and choose which songs we wanted to have him play at our wedding, as well as all the music for intros, etc. Since we were able to do it over the course of months at our own pace, it really made the process much more enjoyable and not stressful at all. On our wedding day, we also had an issue I noticed with our guestbook that I was trying to fix when Brendan came over and told me he would take care of it and that I should go enjoy myself. If you are looking for a DJ for your wedding (or anything else), look no further!
Keep in mind that this couple booked an all-inclusive package, and had to pay extra for a couple of things because they wanted them.
I think you're overthinking this example because of the amount of money involved - $150 is not much so you're okay with not asking for it. Similarly, $150 is not much for a couple who is spending $1500 for their DJ's basic services. Keep in mind that a four-star review is not terrible. If a couple left a four-star review and complained that the rating was not perfect because the DJ wouldn't provide an additional service for free, nobody would read it and think that the DJ was being unfair.
Who cares! I would only worry about the first part where they said you did a great job.
No you are not likely to specifically discuss "production fees" at your meetings, but you should be explaining your contract to the client at the time of signing.
Again for the third time, if your contract is worded properly, and you explain your contract properly to the client as to what's included and what constitutes extra charges, it negates the need to argue or try and get paid for, "production fees" afterwards.
"DJ TJ Entertainment, it's representatives and subcontractors, being licensed providers of copyrighted audio and video for both private and public events for the purposes of providing entertainment, agrees only to provide true and authorized reproduction of said copyrighted material either in part or in whole.
Any off site editing or custom reproduction of any such copyrighted material if requested by the client may be subject to regulatory approval and will incur an additional production fee of $xxx.00 CAD per hour plus fees for additional licencing if required.
Any off site editing or custom reproduction of audio or video of non copyrighted material as requested by the client whether provided by DJ TJ Entertainment, it's representatives, subcontractors, or the client, will also be subject to an additional production fee of $xxx.00 CAD per hour."
I've explained it many times to clients and never had anyone walk away from signing so it's not a deal breaker.
I also make sure to explain that it's only for any custom work needed to be done pre-event, hence the inclusion of the term "off site" which implies extra work needed outside of the event itself.
So if the client wants me to edit a medley live at the event with my choice of cue points, there would not be any extra charge and this always satisfies them.
Let's just agree on how many songs you want in the melody and let me transition between them at my own discretion, which is what we do live as dj's anyway.
In fact I think I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand how many times I've actually charged an extra production fee, and iirc, I think it was only for pre-syncing video and photos to music. And it wasn't even for an event that I was live mixing at, I was only providing audio and video. A couple of times for a celebration of life and I think a couple of times for a wedding anniversary where only background music was being provided along with photos and videos of their lives.
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Ricky, you're thinking how I used to think 2 years ago when it came to lighting. Before 2015, lighting was included in all my prices (2 moving heads). It was a standard set by the company I worked with, who for over 20 years included lighting in all their standard setups, and clientele who booked me expected it as well... and after 6 yrs of working with them, it became my standard too.
I saw a couple of others that were offering it a la carte, and said to myself how could you make a client get something that for that price they expect to be included ($1750 at the time for me and 2 heads). It was extra work and with my designing and light tech, it really isn't your everyday lighting that most other companies do... even the ones that do offer moving heads. I spoke to another DJ (Bob Carpenter) who after sharing my thought process and circumstance, he in the end gave me a his experience with doing it and kind of gave me that push I needed to go through with it.
I now have been doing it for 2 years about and am so glad I did. It has raised my avg wedding price significantly... it makes couples really think about their lighting options (2, 4, or 6 heads, uplighting, monogram, etc) rather than oh its included so lets skip that section with those extras. Yes, a couple of couples have booked me with no lights, but I still get the money I want from the djing, I don't have to worry about a light tech, and that doesn't mean they don't add extras like a cocktail hour system, or photo booth etc.
I saw a couple of others that were offering it a la carte, and said to myself how could you make a client get something that for that price they expect to be included ($1750 at the time for me and 2 heads). It was extra work and with my designing and light tech, it really isn't your everyday lighting that most other companies do... even the ones that do offer moving heads. I spoke to another DJ (Bob Carpenter) who after sharing my thought process and circumstance, he in the end gave me a his experience with doing it and kind of gave me that push I needed to go through with it.
I now have been doing it for 2 years about and am so glad I did. It has raised my avg wedding price significantly... it makes couples really think about their lighting options (2, 4, or 6 heads, uplighting, monogram, etc) rather than oh its included so lets skip that section with those extras. Yes, a couple of couples have booked me with no lights, but I still get the money I want from the djing, I don't have to worry about a light tech, and that doesn't mean they don't add extras like a cocktail hour system, or photo booth etc.
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Interesting change!
I remember you saying you wouldn't be caught without at least 2 totems and 2 moving heads at a gig you booked so you included it as a start.
I cared more about what I thought looked good... rather than what my clients felt was appropriate (this is why I was saying let the client decide if the price is fair for their needs). The funny thing is they now have more questions about lighting and whats appropriate for their room than in the past. In the past it was included, and therefore for many... good enough.
Not at all. In my view, that little bit of money will cost me more in goodwill than it will gain me financially. I'm still choosing what I consider to be the most profitable path to take.
By the very same token, what if a particular client felt that additional sound and lighting should have been included? Same/same.