How to know when you’re done

Uptown Funk is a good selection, and everything about it is reminiscent of so many older funk hits. It's one of those songs which makes you think: "this sounds exactly like . . . " but then you can't name one because it's a steal from so many. The first on on my list is Morris Day & the Time, and then Prince - of the "Purple Rain" era, which may be why it appeals to so many people who remember the 1980's.

Timing is everything, as is location. If you're in country music or rock centric region then funk in general is not high on the motivator list for a lot of people. By the 1990's Rap an Hip-Hop styles pretty much start to dominate the club scene - with a lot the dance tracks being wrapped in the same lyrical style, albeit with dance and techno paced rhythms.

Same rules apply today: know your audience. It's the individualization of music that makes this more difficult today. When everyone is nested in their own headphones how can you really know what is actually trending? The same dysfunctionality can be applied to social and political attachment - given that instead of a consistent reliable media - we have people locked into ideological podcasts where issues and ideas are magnified in an isolation where they seem much larger or more important than they really are. 90% or what we get from the media today is best characterized as tunnel vision.

I don't stop by here very often, so I just found this thread. For those of you reading the debate about quick mixing, I'm going to share my experience with it.

First some background. I'm 61. I've been DJing since the 80's. I personally perform at about 35 - 40 weddings a year. Currently averaging between $1,500 - $2,000 per event. Basic lighting (2 Wash FX Hex controlled by Sound Switch), 1 out of 3 events get uplighting (Both IR4s). I do a lot of barn weddings, where I'm providing ceremony sound. And I'm based in Western PA (only occasionally working in downtown Pittsburgh).

I have been beatmixing for quite some time and found that moving up and down in BPM during the dance portion of the reception improved dance floor energy and participation. But a few years ago I began noticing that even some of the "bangers" seemed to be losing steam as the song wore on. I started seeing videos on quick mixing and decided to give it a try.

I WILL NEVER GO BACK!

The energy on my dance floor and the people that remain on the floor have both increased dramatically since I started this experiment last year. Not one person has come up to me and said, "hey! why didn't you play all of September!" No one needs to hear almost 5 minutes of I Wanna Dance with Somebody. Most newer songs are highly repetitive. No one needs to hear more than 2 1/2 minutes of Usher's Yeah. In fact I sometimes question if I should mix even quicker (I'll probably need more practice to get there).

Yes, you've got to know your music. Yes, you have got to set cue points (to know when to get in and out of songs). I would even suggest working with whatever software you have and either get, or create stems, to help you out. Also there are lots of places to go to get shortened versions of songs to get yourself started. Try Bill Bass Edit packs. There are 3 Wedding Banger packs for like $20 each. I could do most weddings with just the music in those packs.

Don't be afraid to expand YOUR wedding playlist. If you're mixing right and the crowd is having fun your choices will actually expand!

As you can see from my bio, I'm a mid-level DJ, not high end. I'm generally not working at the higher end venues in downtown Pittsburgh. But I am having MASSIVE success creating more energy and a better dance floor for my couples by quick mixing.

And just a quick side note edit. I'm having more fun and enjoying myself at weddings now more than ever because of quick mixing.

etdj said:

I don't stop by here very often, so I just found this thread. For those of you reading the debate about quick mixing, I'm going to share my experience with it.

First some background. I'm 61. I've been DJing since the 80's. I personally perform at about 35 - 40 weddings a year. Currently averaging between $1,500 - $2,000 per event. Basic lighting (2 Wash FX Hex controlled by Sound Switch), 1 out of 3 events get uplighting (Both IR4s). I do a lot of barn weddings, where I'm providing ceremony sound. And I'm based in Western PA (only occasionally working in downtown Pittsburgh).

I have been beatmixing for quite some time and found that moving up and down in BPM during the dance portion of the reception improved dance floor energy and participation. But a few years ago I began noticing that even some of the "bangers" seemed to be losing steam as the song wore on. I started seeing videos on quick mixing and decided to give it a try.

I WILL NEVER GO BACK!

The energy on my dance floor and the people that remain on the floor have both increased dramatically since I started this experiment last year. Not one person has come up to me and said, "hey! why didn't you play all of September!" No one needs to hear almost 5 minutes of I Wanna Dance with Somebody. Most newer songs are highly repetitive. No one needs to hear more than 2 1/2 minutes of Usher's Yeah. In fact I sometimes question if I should mix even quicker (I'll probably need more practice to get there).

Yes, you've got to know your music. Yes, you have got to set cue points (to know when to get in and out of songs). I would even suggest working with whatever software you have and either get, or create stems, to help you out. Also there are lots of places to go to get shortened versions of songs to get yourself started. Try Bill Bass Edit packs. There are 3 Wedding Banger packs for like $20 each. I could do most weddings with just the music in those packs.

Don't be afraid to expand YOUR wedding playlist. If you're mixing right and the crowd is having fun your choices will actually expand!

As you can see from my bio, I'm a mid-level DJ, not high end. I'm generally not working at the higher end venues in downtown Pittsburgh. But I am having MASSIVE success creating more energy and a better dance floor for my couples by quick mixing.

And just a quick side note edit. I'm having more fun and enjoying myself at weddings now more than ever because of quick mixing.

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What he said

etdj said:

But a few years ago I began noticing that even some of the "bangers" seemed to be losing steam as the song wore on. Most newer songs are highly repetitive.

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This is where people are actually mis-identifying the true issue and not looking at the bigger picture of how the casual music industry is rebounding for bands and live entertainers.

It's not about "fast-mixing" because fast mixing has been a tool used by DJs for decades.

etdj said:

No one needs to hear almost 5 minutes of I Wanna Dance with Somebody.

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Of course they don't - and that's why mix-medleys (what you call fast-mixing) is the way to deal with emotive songs of heavy rotation without loitering in the past.

Most newer songs are in fact, shallow and needlessly repetitive. This is a creative problem where talent is feigned more than honed.
Fast mixing doesn't solve the problem of making the job unenjoyable, which is the #1 complaint I hear DJs articulating. They simply don't want to play music that is so intolerable it has to be cut loose in under 60 seconds.

etdj said:

There are 3 Wedding Banger packs for like $20 each. I could do most weddings with just the music in those packs.

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. . . and so can anyone else, including AI. Creative people abhor any kind of mold. This approach to resolving the fleeting quality of modern music is just such a mold.

This argument about fast-mixing comes off as - a way to get our HIGH . . . without acknowledging that what we are playing is garbage. That has more in common with addiction than creative expression.

Proformance said:

This is where people are actually mis-identifying the true issue and not looking at the bigger picture of how the casual music industry is rebounding for bands and live entertainers.

It's not about "fast-mixing" because fast mixing has been a tool used by DJs for decades.


Of course they don't - and that's why mix-medleys (what you call fast-mixing) is the way to deal with emotive songs of heavy rotation without loitering in the past.

Most newer songs are in fact, shallow and needlessly repetitive. This is a creative problem where talent is feigned more than honed.
Fast mixing doesn't solve the problem of making the job unenjoyable, which is the #1 complaint I hear DJs articulating. They simply don't want to play music that is so intolerable it has to be cut loose in under 60 seconds.


. . . and so can anyone else, including AI. Creative people abhor any kind of mold. This approach to resolving the fleeting quality of modern music is just such a mold.

This argument about fast-mixing comes off as - a way to get our HIGH . . . without acknowledging that what we are playing is garbage. That has more in common with addiction than creative expression.

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Your entire post comes off as a crusty old DJ that wants to explain away why people don't do things the way they used to and why it's "wrong".

This will be my only post addressing you on this subject. I respect DJtaso for having far more tolerance for your nonsense than I do. I posted here to share insight to HELP other DJs (even if it's just one) to jump into something they are uncomfortable doing, but something that will improve their performance and hopefully help their business.

You seem to be interested in arguing and self-aggrandizement. I have zero time for your clown-show.
_________________________

DJs, a few years ago I would have argued that people wanted to hear whole songs. Part of that was because I was comfortable doing things the way I had been doing them. Partly, I was afraid that I would run out of "good music". But I witnessed first hand the initial excitement for songs like I Wanna Dance with Somebody and Yeah, wane as the song droned on and on. We can debate "why", but that misses the point. We should be giving the customer what they want. And while we may pine for the days of the seven minute extended dance remix, today's couple is listening to music on TikTok. We can serve them what they are comfortable with, or we can serve them what we are comfortable with. The question you must ask yourself (regardless of whether they are right or wrong) is which service are they going to be more willing to pay for?

etdj said:

Your entire post comes off as a crusty old DJ that wants to explain away why people don't do things the way they used to and why it's "wrong".

This will be my only post addressing you on this subject. I respect DJtaso for having far more tolerance for your nonsense than I do. I posted here to share insight to HELP other DJs (even if it's just one) to jump into something they are uncomfortable doing, but something that will improve their performance and hopefully help their business.

You seem to be interested in arguing and self-aggrandizement. I have zero time for your clown-show.
_________________________

DJs, a few years ago I would have argued that people wanted to hear whole songs. Part of that was because I was comfortable doing things the way I had been doing them. Partly, I was afraid that I would run out of "good music". But I witnessed first hand the initial excitement for songs like I Wanna Dance with Somebody and Yeah, wane as the song droned on and on. We can debate "why", but that misses the point. We should be giving the customer what they want. And while we may pine for the days of the seven minute extended dance remix, today's couple is listening to music on TikTok. We can serve them what they are comfortable with, or we can serve them what we are comfortable with. The question you must ask yourself (regardless of whether they are right or wrong) is which service are they going to be more willing to pay for?

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Your entire post comes off as simply: fragile.

Reality check: There are more people leaving the DJ field than entering and that has been the trend for quiet some time. I'm also quite certain that the exit is not merely rooted in fast mixing or anyone's resistance to change. It's a simple matter of economic and social relevance, opportunity, and desire for growth.

I applaud the fact that you're able to find an extension of what you want from the endeavor by adjusting your programming style.
Simultaneously, I don't hear anyone pining for days gone by.

There are others, like myself that have chosen to make a more lasting change in what we do, especially when our vocational interests are rooted in something more than the rush of filling a dancefloor. Rather than simply "giving customers what they want" we seek out customers who want something of significantly greater scale. In other words: we grow.

Some of us are into show design, technology, and the infrastructure of staging and equipping events. I'm just as fulfilled staging a Symphony Orchestra, Commencement, or Gala, as I ever was DJing clubs, Corporate events, Weddings, or Bar/Bat Mitzvahs. The level of community engagement is also much higher and far more fulfilling. Some of us move on to event staging as a vocation as opposed to a gig. There are a lot of former DJs like myself in the event production services world. For a lot of people - DJing is a pathway - not a destination. Hence, many of us are never 'Done.'

tunes4046 said:

Following my original post, I have officially decided to not take anymore gigs after the end of the year. The few I have done this year I have not enjoyed, which previously was the only reason I continued, I don’t need the money from it I’ve realized my time is more valuable focusing on other ventures.

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Why not just pivot to something more disciplined?

I did far more DJ work in production settings this past year than social events. That's stuff like award presentations, dance competitions, VOG, and other live shows. I find it just as fulfilling to be back stage or FOH as I ever did in a club booth or wedding.

My next DJ gig is on a Wednesday - show starts at 7:00am

Seems like the 2 most controversial topics are price and mixing style. I do just wanna point out one thing, bc in the end, nothing is gonna convince those against quick mixing to change, as they're comfortable where they are or are winding down in their career.

With that said, while I didn't think much of anything that was said as it's been said before... one comment Jeff made caught my attention.

Jeff Romard said:

at least a dozen times a year in meetings I get asked if I "cut songs off" Or "just play the chorus"

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Here's the thing... if you're quick mixing properly, this should NOT be the reaction the guests should have or even think about at the end of the night. It should be more like I can't believe he played so many amazing songs and I never had a chance to leave the dancefloor. When songs get stale... guests leave the dance floor... it's natural. When done properly you're seamlessly blending, with virtually no perception that a song was cut off, with no opportunity for the party to die down. You're building momentum, you're building energy, you're taking guests on a musical journey of constant excitement and providing instant recognition with each new song dropped where they don't even have a chance to think that the song before was cut short. I love it when the guests, particularly the girls, scream the moment the words of one song ends and the words of the next song seamlessly kick in with something instantly familiar. Or you start beatmixing and bring in a familiar bass line/melody, that they're getting pumped up for the next song, before the current song has even finished.

You also need to know your ins and outs of the songs... familiarize how long the intro is of the song you're mixing in... creating beat loops if needed etc. For example, a popular song I get requests for often is Bottoms Up w/ Nicki Minaj... but the reality is no one wants the whole song... they just want that one Nicki Minaj part.... so what do I do, just mix in the verse right before it and get right to the good part, instead of having to ride out 2 minutes of the beginning that no one even cares for. When I do a punk rock set and throw in something unexpected like "Creed- Higher", I mix it in so that as one songs chorus ends, Higher's "so let's go there" pre chorus line kicks right in building the anticipation for the chorus itself (as seen here: View: https://www.tiktok.com/@djtaso/video/7519331809352633631
)... and then as soon as that chorus is done, be ready to mix in or slam something else in (cause who on earth knows the words to the next verse anyways in creed's higher)

Not every song of course needs to be cut out. I play love story all the way through (girls wanna hear he knelt to the ground/pulled out a ring and said)... unwritten and pink pony club i play out longer since they're current anthems... living on a prayer and don't stop believing as well. You need to know your music/crowd. There's no good reason for fireball to be played the whole way through. NONE. Same w/ shut up and dance... besides it not even being a song that I ever play... one verse one chorus, you're good. 50 cent in da club... does anyone even know the words past the first verse/chorus... They're just standing around waiting for the next chorus (aka opportunity to get off the dancefloor).

If you're annoying guests with this style of mixing, you did it wrong. Bottom Line.

Jeff Romard said:

Perhaps you're right...

I will preface this by saying I CAN fast mix. Probably not as good as you or Taso because I don't practice it but I learned before beat counters, controllers, or TikTok were things. I choose not to. Not because I'm a crusty old DJ (maybe I am but that's not the reason) but because at least a dozen times a year in meetings I get asked if I "cut songs off" Or "just play the chorus". The majority of people here that book DJs for Weddings DON'T want fast mixing. When I run in to one that actually enjoys that I have several I can refer or send that will do it much better than me

You are giving the customer what they want...So am I. We both book people because of what we do

I took it easier this year. Personally I will do 52 bar gigs, same Friday night ones I have been doing 8 years except Covid Times and 35-40 private functions. My Daughter will do 25 or so more under our banner and we turned down probably close to 30

I'll never be the one to say you are wrong and I'll be the first to say maybe my area is the exception but what I do works and I work and earn A LOT more than the guys and gals out there fast mixing in my area

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First, I don't claim to be good at quick mixing, at this point I would say that I'm capable. Wedding preferences could very well be different in Nova Scotia and I would have no insight into the bar scene as I only do weddings (and an occasional anniversary or Holiday Party).

I really don't sell my couples on quick mixing. in our initial conversation my focus is more on helping them achieve their vision for the day. Almost all of the weddings I am doing this year were certainly not booked because of quick mixing, it wasn't until October(ish) of last year that I simply started doing quick mixing. This might seem blasphemous but I didn't even ask couples if this is something that they wanted. I simply started incorporating it into my dance floor mix (after watching a lot of videos and a lot of practice and working with stems and buying those Bill Bass Wedding Packs).

After making the switch my dance floors are better. There is more energy and people stay on the floor longer. THAT is what my clients are looking for during the dancing portion of their reception, they want their guests to be on the dance floor having fun. It's not like people weren't dancing before I started quick mixing, but the energy is different. Even older guests are staying on the floor longer

No one has ever once asked if I just play choruses or if I only play parts of songs. In my initial discussions I talk about working with their playlist and reading the crowd. Only a few couples during our final consult before the wedding have gotten into the weeds with me about quick mixing and those clients get super excited about the idea.

I don't want to paint the picture that every wedding I do now is wall to wall, beginning to end, packed dance floors, but I've been doing this long enough to know that I am getting more out of my crowds now than I did before I started quick mixing.

I am curious, because maybe this isn't something that you're experiencing at your weddings, but at mine, over the past few years, I could see the change in crowd reaction to songs like Usher's Yeah (using simply as an example). People would still get excited but as the song played on the energy that used to carry over to the next song and sometimes even the song after that, wasn't really even fully carrying over to the end of Yeah. But once I switched it up I'm out before the energy wanes. Have you noticed any difference in wedding crowd dance floor energy in your neck of the woods?

And to kind of piggyback off Taso's recent post, I find I can play parts of songs that get the crowd revved up (like Higher by Creed - using his example) that would be floor killers at most weddings if the entire song played. Baby, One More Time gets a ripple of excitement when I mix into it from Party in the USA (mixing in from "when a Brittney song was on"). Three full minutes of that would be a floor killer. Last week the couple wanted me to play "Sweet Child of Mine". A full six minutes? No thanks! A minute and a half with the chorus? I had the crowd singing. and then I moved back into a 125ish BPM dance song. There is so much more you can do for a wedding crowd while quick mixing.

This isn't about "me" and what I want from the dance floor. This is about doing my best to fulfill my couple's expectations. And at least with the vast majority of couples I work with, one of their main objectives is to have a fun dance floor. Quick mixing is helping me do a better job of making that happen.

etdj said:

This is about doing my best to fulfill my couple's expectations.

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If that were true the posts would be so much shorter.
For as long as the internet has been around there have been the "epiphany" posts. I get it - you've discovered a better way to build your mixes that had previously eluded you. In every minute of every day the sun is rising somewhere.

djtaso said:

. . . in the end, nothing is gonna convince those against quick mixing to change,

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I have yet to hear from anyone who's "against" quick mixing,
Please, show me the protest marches. LOL

My 2 year old grand daughter discovers something new EVERY DAY. She makes a point to show us each time. Somehow, she manages to do that without presuming the rest of us have been living in a cave.

What I do hear - is a change in job satisfaction. Fast mixing will not resolve that issue.

etdj said:

Your entire post comes off as a crusty old DJ that wants to explain away why people don't do things the way they used to and why it's "wrong".

This will be my only post addressing you on this subject. I respect DJtaso for having far more tolerance for your nonsense than I do. I posted here to share insight to HELP other DJs (even if it's just one) to jump into something they are uncomfortable doing, but something that will improve their performance and hopefully help their business.

You seem to be interested in arguing and self-aggrandizement. I have zero time for your clown-show.
_________________________

DJs, a few years ago I would have argued that people wanted to hear whole songs. Part of that was because I was comfortable doing things the way I had been doing them. Partly, I was afraid that I would run out of "good music". But I witnessed first hand the initial excitement for songs like I Wanna Dance with Somebody and Yeah, wane as the song droned on and on. We can debate "why", but that misses the point. We should be giving the customer what they want. And while we may pine for the days of the seven minute extended dance remix, today's couple is listening to music on TikTok. We can serve them what they are comfortable with, or we can serve them what we are comfortable with. The question you must ask yourself (regardless of whether they are right or wrong) is which service are they going to be more willing to pay for?

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DING DING DING!!!! I've never seen you here before but you just hit the nail on the head. Bob lives to put others down. I think it's the only joy he has in life.

As Taso said, there are certain songs you play the whole song, or at least like 90% of the song.

Pink Pony Club I have played at every wedding since it came out.

This is what I do. I don't believe that any single stle of mixing is what every client wants. I have a mixing style question on my planning form. I let me clients choose how they want me to mix and play music through out the night. Their answers vary, but they answer "I want you to play most of every song you play through out the night. Sometimes they answer with "I want you to play full songs for our Must Plays, but fax mix everything else". I get like 1 couple a year that says "I want it like a club, around 2 minutes/2 verses of every song". I get like 1 couple a year that says they want everything fast mixed (if even that often)

I just let them customize how they want the music for their night go, and I talk with them about it during our finalization phone call to make sure we are on the same page on it and that is how I work. I try to tailor my service to exactly what they want out of their DJ on their day. The most important part about this is going over it and having a phone call with them and talking about it.

That is what I prefer to do because I don't want to play full songs and find out they wanted fast mixing to be done. I don't want to fast mix, and find out they hate that and wanted to hear full songs. It seems that most of my couples want to hear "Most of the song" before I mix out into another one, but one single mixing style does not fit everyone.

rickryan.com said:

DING DING DING!!!! I've never seen you here before but you just hit the nail on the head. Bob lives to put others down. I think it's the only joy he has in life.

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I'm fast mixing with Win-amp.