Peter Merry says "Believe it or not..many DJs in Cananda are still arguing for their "right" to enjoy the open bar"
News to Me?
News to Me?
Group Think Censorship?
- Thread starter Peter Merry
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DJMN~
Jeff Romard~
I can tell you this...it certainly wouldn't have been possible to do those things if I was part-time with a 40 hour/week job.
I am Public Speaker...I get invited to do seminars all the time. Most of the time I enjoy doing it in an effort to change the way, the members of NACE for instance, think about our role and our value. Would you speak if invited?
I am not a Wedding Planner...I am a Wedding Entertainment Director. The only planning I do with the bride and groom is the planning that directly relates to the "entertainment agenda" for their reception and/or ceremony when needed. Do you do that as well?
I am an Author...wow...it feels kind of cool to say that. The book went to the printer today and I pick them up next Friday! As for having time to write...I see you have over 500 posts here...I gave up posting anywhere back in August so I could write in my spare time. I wonder if you could write a book if you were to give up posting for an extended period of time?
So how do I have the time to be a full time DJ? Well...first I would have to say time management helps...but also, with 40 to 50 events per year...I get to take more vacations than most...which is one of the reasons I chose to become self-employed...that and the better pay. Making my DJ business my profession has been my dream since July of 1994. Being a DJ has only been my profession since 1999. It took hard work to get here...I have lots more hard work ahead of me. But I also get the benefit now of not having to work too hard when I choose not to.
How can I slag (did you mean slam?) someone for being "part time" when they themselves candidly admit that they are "part time"? There is nothing wrong with being a part time DJ...most DJs are. I was once a part time DJ myself. What I take issue on is whether part-timers can create a definition of "professional" service and performance that will have credibility with the public and I question why DJs who do this as a "sideline" business (extra money in addition to their regular 9 to 5 career) want so desperately to give themselves the title of "a professional" without first letting those who have already made it their profession establish a clear, credible definition.
As for the "rules of Merry" (that kills me
), I have never said that a DJ who has made this their profession can't have sideline sources of income. Tiger Woods is a Professional Golfer...but he makes a heckuva lot more money from endorsements than he does from his golf winnings. And he has time for all those darn commercials too. I wonder if he’s really just a part time golfer?
I'll say it one more time to be clear...if being a DJ is your career, your profession, how you make a living...then it has and/or is providing your primary source of income. One who has made it to that level...will always be seen as "a professional". If they develop other income streams in addition to their DJ income...those sources of income are sidelines. If they develop an income stream that surpasses their DJ income, after they have already been able to support themselves primarily with their DJ income, they will still be seen as “aprofessional”...who has expanded their career.
Dr. Phil is a great example. He became a professional psychiatrist before he became a professional jury consultant (which utilizes the expertise of a professional psychiatrist). Then he met Oprah and became a professional author and TV Talk Show Host. But he is still and will always be recognized as a professional psychiatrist. And I'd bet you dollar to doughnuts that none of his peers on www.ourpsychiatristtalk.com are questioning his status as a professional or asserting that he’s just a part-timer now.
Jeff Romard~
I can tell you this...it certainly wouldn't have been possible to do those things if I was part-time with a 40 hour/week job.
I am Public Speaker...I get invited to do seminars all the time. Most of the time I enjoy doing it in an effort to change the way, the members of NACE for instance, think about our role and our value. Would you speak if invited?
I am not a Wedding Planner...I am a Wedding Entertainment Director. The only planning I do with the bride and groom is the planning that directly relates to the "entertainment agenda" for their reception and/or ceremony when needed. Do you do that as well?
I am an Author...wow...it feels kind of cool to say that. The book went to the printer today and I pick them up next Friday! As for having time to write...I see you have over 500 posts here...I gave up posting anywhere back in August so I could write in my spare time. I wonder if you could write a book if you were to give up posting for an extended period of time?
So how do I have the time to be a full time DJ? Well...first I would have to say time management helps...but also, with 40 to 50 events per year...I get to take more vacations than most...which is one of the reasons I chose to become self-employed...that and the better pay. Making my DJ business my profession has been my dream since July of 1994. Being a DJ has only been my profession since 1999. It took hard work to get here...I have lots more hard work ahead of me. But I also get the benefit now of not having to work too hard when I choose not to.
How can I slag (did you mean slam?) someone for being "part time" when they themselves candidly admit that they are "part time"? There is nothing wrong with being a part time DJ...most DJs are. I was once a part time DJ myself. What I take issue on is whether part-timers can create a definition of "professional" service and performance that will have credibility with the public and I question why DJs who do this as a "sideline" business (extra money in addition to their regular 9 to 5 career) want so desperately to give themselves the title of "a professional" without first letting those who have already made it their profession establish a clear, credible definition.
As for the "rules of Merry" (that kills me
), I have never said that a DJ who has made this their profession can't have sideline sources of income. Tiger Woods is a Professional Golfer...but he makes a heckuva lot more money from endorsements than he does from his golf winnings. And he has time for all those darn commercials too. I wonder if he’s really just a part time golfer?I'll say it one more time to be clear...if being a DJ is your career, your profession, how you make a living...then it has and/or is providing your primary source of income. One who has made it to that level...will always be seen as "a professional". If they develop other income streams in addition to their DJ income...those sources of income are sidelines. If they develop an income stream that surpasses their DJ income, after they have already been able to support themselves primarily with their DJ income, they will still be seen as “aprofessional”...who has expanded their career.
Dr. Phil is a great example. He became a professional psychiatrist before he became a professional jury consultant (which utilizes the expertise of a professional psychiatrist). Then he met Oprah and became a professional author and TV Talk Show Host. But he is still and will always be recognized as a professional psychiatrist. And I'd bet you dollar to doughnuts that none of his peers on www.ourpsychiatristtalk.com are questioning his status as a professional or asserting that he’s just a part-timer now.
G
Guest
Guest
Peter,
I do not know you, have never met you, attended any of your seminars, bought any of your books and really have no dog in this fight. That being said, I would like to add a couple of things from an outsider.
I was in the business for 16 years before leaving last year to pursue other interests. In that time, I can tell you I never:
1. Wore a tux
2. used a wireless mic
3. spent more than $2000 on any given rig I had.
And you know something? I had more business than I could handle while being at the top of pricing in my market. Based on what I have read from your posts, this should not have been possible. I should not have been able to get the jobs I got because I did not follow a "seven point plan" for professionalism.
And is was not just local brides I worked with. I got calls from as faw away as your area. I have been invited to speak at regional industry conferences and worked with some of the top professionals and clubs on the East Coast. And have done so without ever having to look down at anyone else in the industry and making others feel like they are beneath me simply because I do not live up to some mythical standard of professionalism perpetuated by indivduals simply to sell their products.
So I would ask you, before you continue to make us "unprofessionals" feel beneath you and your high standards, step back and realize there is more than one perception to what clients want.
I do not know you, have never met you, attended any of your seminars, bought any of your books and really have no dog in this fight. That being said, I would like to add a couple of things from an outsider.
I was in the business for 16 years before leaving last year to pursue other interests. In that time, I can tell you I never:
1. Wore a tux
2. used a wireless mic
3. spent more than $2000 on any given rig I had.
And you know something? I had more business than I could handle while being at the top of pricing in my market. Based on what I have read from your posts, this should not have been possible. I should not have been able to get the jobs I got because I did not follow a "seven point plan" for professionalism.
And is was not just local brides I worked with. I got calls from as faw away as your area. I have been invited to speak at regional industry conferences and worked with some of the top professionals and clubs on the East Coast. And have done so without ever having to look down at anyone else in the industry and making others feel like they are beneath me simply because I do not live up to some mythical standard of professionalism perpetuated by indivduals simply to sell their products.
So I would ask you, before you continue to make us "unprofessionals" feel beneath you and your high standards, step back and realize there is more than one perception to what clients want.
Bounce~
The words I used were quoted from Tyrone...and he was refering to me...albeit indirectly...everyone else got it...how did you miss it?
Talk about a double standard...
The words I used were quoted from Tyrone...and he was refering to me...albeit indirectly...everyone else got it...how did you miss it?
Talk about a double standard...
Patrick Lewis~
Don't misunderstand me...I was promoting those old, minimalist definitions...I was merely using them as a clear example of the typical definitions that were "handed down" back in the day.
I know a very professional and talented wedding DJ who wears polka dot shorts and tops to his weddings...and he gets $2,000 and more to do it.
So please don't think I was agreeing with the example...I was merely citing them.
Don't misunderstand me...I was promoting those old, minimalist definitions...I was merely using them as a clear example of the typical definitions that were "handed down" back in the day.
I know a very professional and talented wedding DJ who wears polka dot shorts and tops to his weddings...and he gets $2,000 and more to do it.
So please don't think I was agreeing with the example...I was merely citing them.
Bounce~
The words I used were quoted from Tyrone...and he was refering to me...albeit indirectly...everyone else got it...how did you miss it?
Talk about a double standard...
Just wanted to Clarify the Situation
Thought I would group these together & maybe you wouldn't miss them
Please explain further, as this is new to me
Please explain further, as this is new to me
Peter.
Nice selective reply.
My point was not so much location or demographic but if every dj within 20 miles of you followed your philosophy and became a million dollar dj.
How on earth would all of you find enough work to charge those kinds of fees?
Doesn't the overwhelming response to your thinking tell you anything here?
You are a special case in a special situation.
You are one in one hundred.
Please stop telling the world that it would be a better place if we all gaffed clients.
Sort of leaves that "burnt" scotch taste in my mouth thinking about it.
Nice selective reply.
My point was not so much location or demographic but if every dj within 20 miles of you followed your philosophy and became a million dollar dj.
How on earth would all of you find enough work to charge those kinds of fees?
Doesn't the overwhelming response to your thinking tell you anything here?
You are a special case in a special situation.
You are one in one hundred.
Please stop telling the world that it would be a better place if we all gaffed clients.
Sort of leaves that "burnt" scotch taste in my mouth thinking about it.
Scott Susor~
Before I respond…the first and last time I was in Houston…on the behalf of the ADJA in May of 2004…I called you personally to invite you to my free seminar. Your wife answered the phone (you must have been at “work”) and seemed very surprised to hear me calling. She said you probably wouldn’t be interested in attending. Oh well…at least I tried.
And now…onto your questions…
The “worth movement” has been around for over a decade now. Mark Ferrell first presented it to a “national audience” at the Mobile Beat Show in 1998. He had already presented it to several local groups in 1997.
This question reminds me of the serpent’s question to Eve in the Garden. “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any[/b] tree in the garden?’”
First…the Worth Movement suggested an average professional fee of $1,200 (for an average DJ in an average market…some might need to charge less…some might need to charge more)…but now we’re debating the figure of $2,000? Funny…I see that as MAJOR progress for the Worth Movement…no one is debating $1,200 anymore…now it’s $2,000! I wonder why? I’ll bet it has something to do with the fact that $1,200 has become so achievable in so many markets.
Next…why was the phrase “doing them on a weekly basis” added to the question? Scott do you do gigs every weekend? Still on staff at the hospital IT department? And then you’re busy every weekend as well? That’s gotta be tough. In the last 8 years that I have been “full time” at $1,200 and up…I have never been busy on a “weekly basis” defined as working every weekend. I sincerely doubt the same is true for you either. But I have made enough per event to finally gross 6 figures since 2003. Does that count? Or are you gonna pull a Steve Miller on me and say it has to be every weekend all year? (And for the record…I don’t think even Steve Miller is booked every weekend of the year…although he may be close)
You even upped the ante in you follow up post…
And so I’ll ask again…Scott…are you currently working at whatever your rate is “EVERY Friday and Saturday night?
Let’s just drop that line as we both know it was intended as a biased disqualifier.
So now we’re left with…“First, why is it that we have NEVER seen anybody who is NOT from California doing $2000+ weddings”…
and I’ll add on “…while DJing as their profession” to still raise the bar of difficulty without the unfair disqualifier.
So now it looks like this…“First, why is it that we have NEVER seen anybody who is NOT from California doing $2000+ weddings while DJing as their profession?”
And finally…before I answer you as directly as I know how…who did you mean by “we” and why did you have to use NEVER and NOT? Those last two words are not goig to frineldy to you in just a moment.
DJs I have seen outside of California who get $2,000+ for weddings and DJ as their profession:
Andy Austin of Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Bill Hermann of Minneapolis, Minnesota
Curtis Hoekstra of Phoenix, Arizona
Ben Miller of Bloomington/Normal, Illinois
Ron Ruth of Kansas City, Missouri
DJ Marcello of Mine Hill, New Jersey
Joseph Mire of Houston, Texas
And those are just the ones I could think of quickly at 2:45am when I’m ready to fall asleep.
Not true at all…each of above DJs has promoted these ideas in seminars at conferences and/or in online forums.
Why should I? As you plainly see…they are all over the place already…I don’t need to do it to prove it can be done in other regions…it’s being done by DJs who are already there…
Before I respond…the first and last time I was in Houston…on the behalf of the ADJA in May of 2004…I called you personally to invite you to my free seminar. Your wife answered the phone (you must have been at “work”) and seemed very surprised to hear me calling. She said you probably wouldn’t be interested in attending. Oh well…at least I tried.
And now…onto your questions…
The “worth movement” has been around for over a decade now. Mark Ferrell first presented it to a “national audience” at the Mobile Beat Show in 1998. He had already presented it to several local groups in 1997.
This question reminds me of the serpent’s question to Eve in the Garden. “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any[/b] tree in the garden?’”
First…the Worth Movement suggested an average professional fee of $1,200 (for an average DJ in an average market…some might need to charge less…some might need to charge more)…but now we’re debating the figure of $2,000? Funny…I see that as MAJOR progress for the Worth Movement…no one is debating $1,200 anymore…now it’s $2,000! I wonder why? I’ll bet it has something to do with the fact that $1,200 has become so achievable in so many markets.
Next…why was the phrase “doing them on a weekly basis” added to the question? Scott do you do gigs every weekend? Still on staff at the hospital IT department? And then you’re busy every weekend as well? That’s gotta be tough. In the last 8 years that I have been “full time” at $1,200 and up…I have never been busy on a “weekly basis” defined as working every weekend. I sincerely doubt the same is true for you either. But I have made enough per event to finally gross 6 figures since 2003. Does that count? Or are you gonna pull a Steve Miller on me and say it has to be every weekend all year? (And for the record…I don’t think even Steve Miller is booked every weekend of the year…although he may be close)
You even upped the ante in you follow up post…
And so I’ll ask again…Scott…are you currently working at whatever your rate is “EVERY Friday and Saturday night?
Let’s just drop that line as we both know it was intended as a biased disqualifier.
So now we’re left with…“First, why is it that we have NEVER seen anybody who is NOT from California doing $2000+ weddings”…
and I’ll add on “…while DJing as their profession” to still raise the bar of difficulty without the unfair disqualifier.
So now it looks like this…“First, why is it that we have NEVER seen anybody who is NOT from California doing $2000+ weddings while DJing as their profession?”
And finally…before I answer you as directly as I know how…who did you mean by “we” and why did you have to use NEVER and NOT? Those last two words are not goig to frineldy to you in just a moment.
DJs I have seen outside of California who get $2,000+ for weddings and DJ as their profession:
Andy Austin of Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Bill Hermann of Minneapolis, Minnesota
Curtis Hoekstra of Phoenix, Arizona
Ben Miller of Bloomington/Normal, Illinois
Ron Ruth of Kansas City, Missouri
DJ Marcello of Mine Hill, New Jersey
Joseph Mire of Houston, Texas
And those are just the ones I could think of quickly at 2:45am when I’m ready to fall asleep.
Not true at all…each of above DJs has promoted these ideas in seminars at conferences and/or in online forums.
Why should I? As you plainly see…they are all over the place already…I don’t need to do it to prove it can be done in other regions…it’s being done by DJs who are already there…
eklondon~
You’d be surprised. I probably allow about 5 to 6 ride-along DJs on my events per year. Sometimes it is a part time DJ looking to see my show…and sometimes is a full time DJ looking to see my show. Both are always told that a full and detailed critique will be expected when we are done. Randy Bartlett usually has several pages of notes for me. The part-timers usually want more info on how I set up certain interactive activities…but occasionally they will also offer critical feedback and cover something I’d never considered before. But regardless…I have always sought out the feedback no matter the source.
Critiques are funny things…they tend to be limited to our own current experiences and expertise. That’s why outside eyes can often spot things we have never noticed before.
How many songs do you play for the Garter Toss? Do you have a standard song or songs that you play for the Garter Toss? Humor me with an answer and I’ll make it worth your while.
Canada is a big country…do you know Bill James from Sudbury? He shared that info with me…could be just in his region…but it is still a hot debate.
You’d be surprised. I probably allow about 5 to 6 ride-along DJs on my events per year. Sometimes it is a part time DJ looking to see my show…and sometimes is a full time DJ looking to see my show. Both are always told that a full and detailed critique will be expected when we are done. Randy Bartlett usually has several pages of notes for me. The part-timers usually want more info on how I set up certain interactive activities…but occasionally they will also offer critical feedback and cover something I’d never considered before. But regardless…I have always sought out the feedback no matter the source.
Critiques are funny things…they tend to be limited to our own current experiences and expertise. That’s why outside eyes can often spot things we have never noticed before.
How many songs do you play for the Garter Toss? Do you have a standard song or songs that you play for the Garter Toss? Humor me with an answer and I’ll make it worth your while.
Canada is a big country…do you know Bill James from Sudbury? He shared that info with me…could be just in his region…but it is still a hot debate.
mp3jrick~
You didn't answer a single one of my questions...and I'm selective? You said to book gigs in a 20 mile square depressed region...and I'm selective?
So I take it you weren't joking?
That's s a great question...what was that population for Philadelphia again?
Oh that's right...12,000,000!
Originally you said 10...now it's every DJ in within 20 miles? Oh but wait...there are still within 5 miles of Philadelphia...population 12,000,000!!!
Now...not every DJ will be (here it comes) good enough to get $5,000 or $2,000...but with 12,000,000 people in the area...I think there would be tons of room for 10 top-priced DJs...and there would be plenty of room for 100's of top-priced to well above-average-priced DJs.
But then you want to rig the game by setting up a force field around Camden, NJ??? Is that how you operate your business? Do you turn down $2,000 gigs from Philly...cause you don't like crossing bridges? Why is the force field necessary for you to "believe?"
I had to look up "gaffed"...it's apparently a slang term that means:
Nice...I may be one in a hundred...but if more DJs would drive over bridges to cities that have 12,000,000 residents instead of locking themselves in self-erected bubble-spheres of safety and comfort...perhaps there wouldn't so few like me.
Your assertion that I am promoting swindling my clients says a whole lot more about your perceptions of your value, then it does of my ethics.
It's truly a sad commentary on the state of our so-called industry.
You didn't answer a single one of my questions...and I'm selective? You said to book gigs in a 20 mile square depressed region...and I'm selective?
So I take it you weren't joking?
That's s a great question...what was that population for Philadelphia again?
Oh that's right...12,000,000!
Originally you said 10...now it's every DJ in within 20 miles? Oh but wait...there are still within 5 miles of Philadelphia...population 12,000,000!!!
Now...not every DJ will be (here it comes) good enough to get $5,000 or $2,000...but with 12,000,000 people in the area...I think there would be tons of room for 10 top-priced DJs...and there would be plenty of room for 100's of top-priced to well above-average-priced DJs.
But then you want to rig the game by setting up a force field around Camden, NJ??? Is that how you operate your business? Do you turn down $2,000 gigs from Philly...cause you don't like crossing bridges? Why is the force field necessary for you to "believe?"
I had to look up "gaffed"...it's apparently a slang term that means:
Nice...I may be one in a hundred...but if more DJs would drive over bridges to cities that have 12,000,000 residents instead of locking themselves in self-erected bubble-spheres of safety and comfort...perhaps there wouldn't so few like me.
Your assertion that I am promoting swindling my clients says a whole lot more about your perceptions of your value, then it does of my ethics.
It's truly a sad commentary on the state of our so-called industry.
The Vinyl Spinner~
Yes...you are completely allowed to use a value system that detemines your pricing in direct proportion to your feelings of guilt.
If that sounds like a worthy value system for determining the value of your services...by all means...don't let my rantings or basic business principles get in the way.
Just because I may think something is a dumb idea...or an ignorant way to run a business...doesn't mean I'm trying to change your value systems. I'm just trying to understand...being that all such value systems are equally valid and correct...here.
Yes...you are completely allowed to use a value system that detemines your pricing in direct proportion to your feelings of guilt.
If that sounds like a worthy value system for determining the value of your services...by all means...don't let my rantings or basic business principles get in the way.
Just because I may think something is a dumb idea...or an ignorant way to run a business...doesn't mean I'm trying to change your value systems. I'm just trying to understand...being that all such value systems are equally valid and correct...here.
Thread closed. The point has been made over and over again we're doing nothing but beating a dead horse.
Group Think Censorship Wins Again!
Papa Duece asked why my thread got moved…
I posted this reponse…
I was doing a pretty decent job of handling the discussions (10 on 1) just fine I thought. I was answering questions…and I did my best to respond to each person…in a new area created just for me…in the back of the building…in the back closet…in the crawlspace under the floor…where our discussions shouldn’t have bothered anyone who didn’t care to read them and yet…here is the score…
Threads closed by Peter Merry because he doesn’t agree with the points of view they contain vs. Threads closed by the group think here because they doesn’t agree with the points of view I propose…
Group Think: 2
Peter Merry: 0
This thread will most likely be deleted, locked, and or moved to a safe forum in a galaxy far, far away in…5…4…3…2…
(The answer is in…MICE!)
Merged new thread with the old - Deejay Dan
Papa Duece asked why my thread got moved…
I posted this reponse…
The Vinyl Spinner replied with:
I do accept you your differing opinions…I may disagree with them…but I accept them. Do you accept mine?
I was doing a pretty decent job of handling the discussions (10 on 1) just fine I thought. I was answering questions…and I did my best to respond to each person…in a new area created just for me…in the back of the building…in the back closet…in the crawlspace under the floor…where our discussions shouldn’t have bothered anyone who didn’t care to read them and yet…here is the score…
Threads closed by Peter Merry because he doesn’t agree with the points of view they contain vs. Threads closed by the group think here because they doesn’t agree with the points of view I propose…
Group Think: 2
Peter Merry: 0
This thread will most likely be deleted, locked, and or moved to a safe forum in a galaxy far, far away in…5…4…3…2…
(The answer is in…MICE!)
Merged new thread with the old - Deejay Dan
- Status