Dancing in the clouds

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rickryan.com

rickryan.com

DJ Extraordinaire
ODJT Supporter
Dec 9, 2009
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Hendersonville, TN
www.rickryan.com
I did a little test yesterday, and thinking about doing a dancing on the clouds effect for 1st dance. I know Taso uses a Nimbus but I'm experimenting with DIY. 24 quart cooler (medium-sized), half-filled with hot water from the tap (140 degrees) and a 4 lb block of dry ice (broken up). The ice ran about $10 from the local Kroger store. Dropped the ice in and it exploded with fog, filling my 2 car garage within a few seconds and lasted a good minute before it started subsiding. Taso, am I remembering correctly that you use 20 lbs of ice? Also, I've ordered a 1500 watt, submersible heater that says it'll heat the water to 180-190 degrees. I'm thinking to heat the water off to the side, then right before the first dance put the water behind the head table and use a 1.5" hose to route the fog so that it comes out from underneath the head table, directly onto the dance floor. I'm also thinking to put the ice into a wire basket, which will then get dropped into the water. Will have to use an assistant to do this. End result of my test was a good 8-15" layer of clouds. I'm thinking to do the drop during the intro on the dance. I took an iphone video, but for some reason, it was only about 1 second long. I'm planning to re-stage this at my venue this weekend and will try to get some vids on it. Taso (or anyone else here offering this service), am I in the ballpark? Any reason to buy/use a Nimbus if I'm getting good results already?
 
Rick .. it seems you are looking at a whole lot of DIY for the "Chapel". Some of these are probably NOT the way to go .. even if they seem to work .. as you need utter reliability and you need protection from liability, which you won't get if something happens and it turns out it was a cable you laid, or the cooler cracked or what have you. Would hate to see you lose the place over a relatively small cost.
 
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Steve, I appreciate your concern but really, I don't see any less liability using a Nimbus than doing it this way. If the water container breaks, it spills water on the floor (a non-slick surface). Now what I would be concerned about is if the Nimbus gave better performance than this one. Common sense would seem to dictate that larger water surface would translate into more fog. I did notice another post where Taso suggested adding ice once every minute. I'm thinking it would make more sense to have multiple baskets that you could change out, although I'm kinda thinking that a single drop may be sufficient.
 
As Steve said... you're definitely going the DIY route... and I can't get to the technicals of what you're doing in terms of the actual build. While we don't use hoses since the nimbus is on the dancefloor and close enough... I've seen others, including venues use hoses to redirect, and they use something that's more like 5" in diameter... also the nimbus seems like it has at least a 2.5 or 3" output.

In regards to the 20lbs... its mostly because my guys keep dumping ice in every 20-30seconds throughout the first dance to create nice bursts of cloud as well as give it more height. If you're just planning on putting 20lbs in and letting it be for 3 minutes... it tends to simmer and look flat after a little bit. In some of my better examples the smoke can create a nice thick layer that is up to the knees.
 
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djtaso said:
As Steve said... you're definitely going the DIY route... and I can't get to the technicals of what you're doing in terms of the actual build. While we don't use hoses since the nimbus is on the dancefloor and close enough... I've seen others, including venues use hoses to redirect, and they use something that's more like 5" in diameter... also the nimbus seems like it has at least a 2.5 or 3" output.

In regards to the 20lbs... its mostly because my guys keep dumping ice in every 20-30seconds throughout the first dance to create nice bursts of cloud as well as give it more height. If you're just planning on putting 20lbs in and letting it be for 3 minutes... it tends to simmer and look flat after a little bit. In some of my better examples the smoke can create a nice thick layer that is up to the knees.
Click to expand...

Thanks Taso. I was thinking a 1.5" hose but perhaps a larger one is in order. Good info. I still may end up buying a Nimbus but planning to try this first. Until bookings get rolling that $1k is something I just don't have to throw around. I'm still faced with $10k-$15k for HVAC by Spring. I'm using propane for heat on this first event.
 
First and foremost, coolers are not meant to hold hot liquids. This is liability issue #1 should something go wrong. Not so much the water spilling... more like the plastic expanding and cracking, or the pressure building up inside the cooler when you submerse your heater in it and keep the cover closed (because it'll heat way faster) and sending the cover shooting across the room. Or the kid who assumes that the cooler contains something cold, opens it up and sticks their hand in. There are plenty of ways in which this could go wrong... which is why a Nimbus isn't 100% sealed and isn't 100% plastic (I'm pretty sure it's got a fiberglass lining, or something similar).

rickryan.com said:
Common sense would seem to dictate that larger water surface would translate into more fog.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. A larger ice surface translates into more fog, which is why you break up the ice before putting it into the water (or ideally, use dry ice pellets instead of a block). Also, while you could continue to refill the basket every minute or so, the end result is not guaranteed after the first drop... you're not only getting fog from a Nimbus, you're rapidly cooling the water.

Something else to consider: Airflow in the room. If your heaters are blowing air onto the dancefloor, they're going to blow your cloud around with it.

Also consider that you'll want a dedicated circuit just for your dry icer. But why would you want to do this at all? I own a Nimbus and it's my least favorite add-on because there are so many variables that can affect the end result. I've had three couples in three years that wanted the cloud thing and it's so overrated.
 
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B-Sharp said:
First and foremost, coolers are not meant to hold hot liquids. This is liability issue #1 should something go wrong. Not so much the water spilling... more like the plastic expanding and cracking, or the pressure building up inside the cooler when you submerse your heater in it and keep the cover closed (because it'll heat way faster) and sending the cover shooting across the room. Or the kid who assumes that the cooler contains something cold, opens it up and sticks their hand in. There are plenty of ways in which this could go wrong... which is why a Nimbus isn't 100% sealed and isn't 100% plastic (I'm pretty sure it's got a fiberglass lining, or something similar).



This is incorrect. A larger ice surface translates into more fog, which is why you break up the ice before putting it into the water (or ideally, use dry ice pellets instead of a block). Also, while you could continue to refill the basket every minute or so, the end result is not guaranteed after the first drop... you're not only getting fog from a Nimbus, you're rapidly cooling the water.

Something else to consider: Airflow in the room. If your heaters are blowing air onto the dancefloor, they're going to blow your cloud around with it.

Also consider that you'll want a dedicated circuit just for your dry icer. But why would you want to do this at all? I own a Nimbus and it's my least favorite add-on because there are so many variables that can affect the end result. I've had three couples in three years that wanted the cloud thing and it's so overrated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, that's good info. As for why, I'm looking at it as "something different" for the area. I'm up against plenty of venues, many are very nice facilities and my pole barn in a hay field (DIY) doesn't compete on just building features. I think the airflow is right to make this work and if I can get a cool video posted I'm hoping it will help garner some attention.
 
As I said... I wont get into the technicals as I just don't know enough, but Brendan brought up some other aspects that I can add to.

- I ONLY use pellets as they create a better effect... and even though the water gets cooled with time just the initial moment of the ice touching the water (which while cooler will still be hot enough), can create a nice burst of smoke. If pellets are not available, we buy blocks which we break down with a hammer to create smaller pieces.

- I ALWAYS ask for the AC to be turned off prior to the intros starting. AC/heat can be your biggest enemy in getting the effect to look right. We at least have the ability with the nimbus to move around... but with the way you want to do it, you can't counter the effects of air drafts, so you'd be inclined to turn all airflow off for the first dance.

Where I differ with Brendan is where he says it's not an in demand service. I used it on 8 events in 2019, and already have it on 6 events for 2020, and am sure some will add it as their event gets closer. Brendan does more weddings than I do too I feel (I am at 34 so far for 2020). Marketing material of course helps.

- Regarding the dumping every 20-30 seconds. I attached 2 photos of the dancing on the cloud effect from the same venue. In the first one where we were just getting the hang of the effect, we didn't refill the ice every 20-30 seconds, and you can see how it looks flat, where as opposed to the second one it looks nice and full.
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Although I have never personally used one...
I will add my two cents.

I agree with what others said about liability.
The MAJOR difference, as far as the law will see...is that you used a contraption of your own design and construction.
Not to mention tripping hazards for the power cables and the hoses.
The Nimbus will not only have less chance of failure, if it is a design flaw in a unit you bought,
then Chauvet will share some of the responsibility should someone get hurt.

And speaking of failure...think about the chance of failure.
There will obviously be more of a chance that your DIY machine with fail,
than a professionally made unit, that was designed and tested to do exactly what you want it to do.
Failure means not only a refund...but the risk of ruining a bride's first dance. (no do-overs)
And you know how much you hate bad reviews.

And lastly, the Nimbus can be easily set up and broken down...
it's easier to maintain and clean...
and it will most likely LOOK a whole lot more professional
than a bunch of wires, hoses, duct table and a cooler.

Oh yeah....and the Nimbus comes with a warranty.
 
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Thanks guys, good points. Taso, on getting dry ice in my venue's area, it looks like the closest source is Publix and that's 30 minutes away (one way). I suspect they're going to sell bricks, just like my local (TN) Kroger. I'm afraid that pellets are going to be an hour away, in Birmingham. If I decide to do this, it just might be bricks that are busted up with a hammer.

Mike, you make good points on DIY versus bought. One thing, there are no cables involved. I'd plug up the heater over in the corner, behind some pipe&drape. Just before 1st dance, the assistant take the container over behind the B&G's table. As the couple go to the floor, plug in the exhaust pipe, then as the song starts drop a basket of dry ice, close the lid and walk away. The entire thing would be hidden behind the head table. As the song is ending, assistant retrieves the tank/tube and takes it out the back door and dumps the water.

Still not convinced this is something I want to do (without getting paid extra) long term, but in the short term I'm thinking a few videos, showing the effect in my venue, along with the uplighting, might be pretty powerful as a sales tool. I'm going to play with it some more this weekend, if I have the time.
 
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rickryan.com said:
Thanks guys, good points. Taso, on getting dry ice in my venue's area, it looks like the closest source is Publix and that's 30 minutes away (one way). I suspect they're going to sell bricks, just like my local (TN) Kroger. I'm afraid that pellets are going to be an hour away, in Birmingham. If I decide to do this, it just might be bricks that are busted up with a hammer.

Mike, you make good points on DIY versus bought. One thing, there are no cables involved. I'd plug up the heater over in the corner, behind some pipe&drape. Just before 1st dance, the assistant take the container over behind the B&G's table. As the couple go to the floor, plug in the exhaust pipe, then as the song starts drop a basket of dry ice, close the lid and walk away. The entire thing would be hidden behind the head table. As the song is ending, assistant retrieves the tank/tube and takes it out the back door and dumps the water.

Still not convinced this is something I want to do (without getting paid extra) long term, but in the short term I'm thinking a few videos, showing the effect in my venue, along with the uplighting, might be pretty powerful as a sales tool. I'm going to play with it some more this weekend, if I have the time.
Click to expand...
Does no one in the area offer it that you can subcontract to (even at no profit initially) to test the waters with?
 
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steve149 said:
Does no one in the area offer it that you can subcontract to (even at no profit initially) to test the waters with?
Click to expand...


I am sure that is a STRETCH considering the venue is in a rural area. Finding a DJ with a Nimbus in my area is a task. Not many offer dancing on the clouds locally here.

I went the cheap effect route a few years ago. ADJ Mr Kool Fog Machine with dry ice and fog juice. It produces a low lying fog, BUT the spread is small, and can only do a burst every minute. About 1/7th the effect of what a Nimbus can produce within 20 seconds. I suppose using a 1500 watt low lying fog machine would be as good as a Nimbus, if not have more spread, BUT those machines cost $1,000 or at least they use to.

OH WOW...JUst checked. THey have come down in price A LOT over the years.

Generic chinese brand on Ebay for $151 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samger-150...188571?hash=item2f3b87581b:g:fOEAAOSw3s5cos6Q

You can look of videos on youtube where they replaced regular ice with dry ice to see the result. The throw on these machines is FAR. Probably fill up most of your 40x80 room with 1 shot.

Not exactly the same as the Nimbus, or DIY cooler doohickey, BUT more legit than DIY, and cheaper than Nimbus. SO that is an option!
 
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steve149 said:
That fog looks brown .. like they used waste water or something.
Click to expand...
Your favorite Youtube DJ did a video a few years ago with the Mister Kool machine...It looks white. This shows how short the throw is though. It's not enough for a dancing on clouds effect for first dance. I used it as a cheap add on a couple of times, and the couples were happy with it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aitOPlw7QI
 
The downside with those machines is they NEED to be plugged in while in use. At least with the nimbus, we can unplug it once its time for usage, not risking blowing a circuit that something else is on as well. Also again... with the nimbus you can maneuver it in case the air in the room is blowing the effect away from the desired area (assuming you couldn't get it to turn off). That's also a relatively weak looking effect as it doesn't get a lot of height to create the impression of being absorbed by the clouds.


PS... this is why items are often not in high demand... they're just not done right. Uplighting doesn't look good when djs only bring 12-20... you need way more. Dancing on the clouds doesn't look good if you don't do it right either. Just like lighting doesnt look good when its a bunch of random movements that have nothing to do with the atmsophere and music, compared to when someones controlling it with a computer to give the best visual atmosphere.

Do it the right way and watch the demand grow.
 
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djtaso said:
The downside with those machines is they NEED to be plugged in while in use. At least with the nimbus, we can unplug it once its time for usage, not risking blowing a circuit that something else is on as well. Also again... with the nimbus you can maneuver it in case the air in the room is blowing the effect away from the desired area (assuming you couldn't get it to turn off). That's also a relatively weak looking effect as it doesn't get a lot of height to create the impression of being absorbed by the clouds.


PS... this is why items are often not in high demand... they're just not done right. Uplighting doesn't look good when djs only bring 12-20... you need way more. Dancing on the clouds doesn't look good if you don't do it right either. Just like lighting doesnt look good when its a bunch of random movements that have nothing to do with the atmsophere and music, compared to when someones controlling it with a computer to give the best visual atmosphere.

Do it the right way and watch the demand grow.
Click to expand...


I agree.

However, I also believe that Rick's CORE Clientele, and perhaps as much as 98% of his clients will not have a desire to pay much for the effect. ...They are looking at spending under $4,000 on the venue with other stuff added into it. They aren't going to bother spending $200+ on a dancing on the clouds effect.

My clients in Baltimore did not, and I pushed it HARD for a year and a half.

I tried with my own clients a few years back showing them the promo material from Chauvet. Had it on the website. I mentioned it to everyone. Showed them during our client meetings. Nobody wanted to spend money on adding it. I wanted to pre sell the add ons before I spent a bunch of money on a Nimbus. Almost bought the Nimbus Jr. to try to save money and do it on a budget. That did not happen either after everyone said the Jr is not worth it, and half the effect of the regular, and saw it in person at the Expo in 2013 or 2014 or whatever.

My clients just aren't into the extras like that.

I DID manage to sell the mini dancing on the clouds effect. I used the MR. Kool, and would spend $15 on dry ice for the event. I charged $75 for that effect at the time...And a couple of clients did add it for their event. Nobody was willing to add it at $250+

Also, it was a lot of additional time going to the nearby dry ice warehouse in Baltimore City to pick the ice up.
 
There are rental places in Nashville where you might be able to strike up a deal with one of the vendors to pick one up on the way down and drop it back on the return .. at least as a start while deciding if it makes sense. We covered places in another thread ( https://ourdjtalk.com/djchat/chauvet-nimbus-rentals.50076/ ).

BTW (for Rick and others) .. when you want to discuss customer specific things, best NOT to have them in the public searchable forums (like this one). I Googled for Chauvet Nimbus Rental Nashville and 2 of the top 3 results were links back to ODJT where pricing and future decisions were contemplated ...

Don't be like MIx ....
 
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