I have all of my wires unbalanced. I'm advised they should be balanced? Could someone Please explain to the differences??
Thank you in advance
Thank you in advance
Balanced vs Unbalanced?
- Thread starter Capital Disc Jockeys
- Start date
To keep it simple:
Unbalanced is what home audio systems, CD players and most PC sounds cards use. It uses 2 connections, much like a speaker wire. It is typically used with short cable runs. The signal strength is low, so any noise would be boosted with the signal. In a DJ setup with most cables being 6 feet long or less and no noise producing equipment nearby, you may be OK.
Balanced uses 3 wires, 2 dedicated signals and a dedicated grounded shield. The signal strength is higher, so it can travel farther and there is less boosting to any noise signal. In a live performance were you are running a 100 feet of cable out to a control booth and 100 feet back to the amps behind the stage you need to use balanced.
Unbalanced is what home audio systems, CD players and most PC sounds cards use. It uses 2 connections, much like a speaker wire. It is typically used with short cable runs. The signal strength is low, so any noise would be boosted with the signal. In a DJ setup with most cables being 6 feet long or less and no noise producing equipment nearby, you may be OK.
Balanced uses 3 wires, 2 dedicated signals and a dedicated grounded shield. The signal strength is higher, so it can travel farther and there is less boosting to any noise signal. In a live performance were you are running a 100 feet of cable out to a control booth and 100 feet back to the amps behind the stage you need to use balanced.
I have all of my wires unbalanced. I'm advised they should be balanced? Could someone Please explain to the differences??
Thank you in advance
With unbalanced you have +signal and a ground
With balanced you have a +signal a -signal and a ground.
BTW some say it's better to use 1/4" unbalanced to input to channel 1 and 2 on the L1
Always go balanced for long runs (and if you can).
I believe there are two types of balanced cable as well, one where the ground is twisted with the negative and one where the ground is twisted around the positive and the negative.
Mike
I believe there are two types of balanced cable as well, one where the ground is twisted with the negative and one where the ground is twisted around the positive and the negative.
Mike
Mike -
I'm not aware of a balanced audio cable where the ground would be twisted with the negative, but there is a lot I have to learn.
It would seem to defeat the purpose of an engineered cable, where our signal conductors are protected from EMI and RFI by the shield (ground) and the signal conductors are twisted to offer us Common Mode Rejection against noise. In an unbalanced cable the ground (and signal cold or negative) conductor is typically coaxially positioned around the hot (positive) signal conductor. Could that be what you're thinking of?
Ben
I'm not aware of a balanced audio cable where the ground would be twisted with the negative, but there is a lot I have to learn.
It would seem to defeat the purpose of an engineered cable, where our signal conductors are protected from EMI and RFI by the shield (ground) and the signal conductors are twisted to offer us Common Mode Rejection against noise. In an unbalanced cable the ground (and signal cold or negative) conductor is typically coaxially positioned around the hot (positive) signal conductor. Could that be what you're thinking of?
Ben
Balanced line patching will serve if your equipment is set up for it. If not, say a 1/4" TS jack for example, a balanced TRS probably won't make much difference.
Balanced patching is preferred for the reasons mentioned above. You may notice a quieter system when changing to balanced line patching. It's nice for quieting hum and hiss.
Addendum: Folks, the constant derailing of threads around here is really starting to rub me the wrong way. I've deleted the off-topic crap. Please, keep it in the proper threads.
Balanced patching is preferred for the reasons mentioned above. You may notice a quieter system when changing to balanced line patching. It's nice for quieting hum and hiss.
Addendum: Folks, the constant derailing of threads around here is really starting to rub me the wrong way. I've deleted the off-topic crap. Please, keep it in the proper threads.
Balanced line patching will serve if your equipment is set up for it. If not, say a 1/4" TS jack for example, a balanced TRS probably won't make much difference.
Balanced patching is preferred for the reasons mentioned above. You may notice a quieter system when changing to balanced line patching. It's nice for quieting hum and hiss.
Addendum: Folks, the constant derailing of threads around here is really starting to rub me the wrong way. I've deleted the off-topic crap. Please, keep it in the proper threads.
Most of the newer stuff I've seen has balanced inputs and outputs and there are exceptions, but with most quality gear it's balanced.
I make my own XLR cables as well as the XLR to the 1/4" TRS cables. I've bought two 300 ft. of quality cable and while looking around all of the different cables from the cheapest (lowest quality) to the most expensive both the positive and the negative are shielded by the same mesh. But as Ben said maybe there's other stuff around.
I was forced to use a 1/4" TS patch cord and got the dreaded hum. Switched to the balanced XLR and balanced 1/4" TRS and no hum was there. Learned my lesson and have made all the cables I needed as well as backups. Hey it's part of the GAS addiction for me, it keeps me busy
A few clarifications.
Just to clarify, driving a balanced signal with an unbalanced signal can modulate the ground on your balanced signal, which can be very troublesome. The proper way to drive a balanced input with an unbalanced signal is with a transformer isolated circuit, like a Direct Insert (DI) box. In fact, there is a nifty one that pads a line level, unbalanced signal (like CD Player, iPod, computer, etc) to a mic level, balanced signal. It's the ProCo iFace. Actually, if you check my Joes vs. Pros thread, there's one adapted to a custom plate in one of the pictures. All 8 inputs in that system are balanced, with many runs up to 350' long.
Well.... hangon. There are several types of shields. The "mesh" you refer to is probably a "braid" and rest assured that they are not all the same. Pictures coming perhaps tomorrow, we'll see. For now, when you look at a cable's rating it will have a % value, this is the % of coverage. 95% is the best you can acheive with a high quality braid. The best cables then have an independant drain conductor inside the braid that allow you to leave the shield as intact as possible for as long as possible.
Lower quality cables use a spiral shield, where the shield is simply spiraled around the signal conductors, leaving BIG holes that allow lots of RFI and some EMI through.
Ben
Just to clarify, driving a balanced signal with an unbalanced signal can modulate the ground on your balanced signal, which can be very troublesome. The proper way to drive a balanced input with an unbalanced signal is with a transformer isolated circuit, like a Direct Insert (DI) box. In fact, there is a nifty one that pads a line level, unbalanced signal (like CD Player, iPod, computer, etc) to a mic level, balanced signal. It's the ProCo iFace. Actually, if you check my Joes vs. Pros thread, there's one adapted to a custom plate in one of the pictures.
All 8 inputs in that system are balanced, with many runs up to 350' long.Well.... hangon. There are several types of shields. The "mesh" you refer to is probably a "braid" and rest assured that they are not all the same. Pictures coming perhaps tomorrow, we'll see. For now, when you look at a cable's rating it will have a % value, this is the % of coverage. 95% is the best you can acheive with a high quality braid. The best cables then have an independant drain conductor inside the braid that allow you to leave the shield as intact as possible for as long as possible.
Lower quality cables use a spiral shield, where the shield is simply spiraled around the signal conductors, leaving BIG holes that allow lots of RFI and some EMI through.
Ben
Thanks, Ben.
Our entire system is balanced line patching from the mixer to the amps. Only exception, the CD decks output RCAs to the mixer. All the rest is balanced. I've never had to go from one to the other.
Our entire system is balanced line patching from the mixer to the amps. Only exception, the CD decks output RCAs to the mixer. All the rest is balanced. I've never had to go from one to the other.
Yep that's the information I got from the supplier, there will always be a cheap alternative, but I learned cheap usually fails, then there's the hype aka Monster or whatever. I did my homework and working with quality stuff sure makes things a lot easier
I was just at my eletronic's store yesterday. I am running a computerized system (1/8 inch, or mini plug) with the Bose L1 system, 1/4 inch (not XLR, or should I run an XLR??) because of this, I am advised to go unbalanced. Which I've been doing..
How and why to use balanced cables
Yes. Balanced signals send a counter-signal down the third wire to eliminate interference.
Read here or in a compressor, amplifier, eq manual, etc.
Balanced audio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Kabel-Symetrisch.png" class="image"><img alt="Kabel-Symetrisch.png" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Kabel-Symetrisch.png/220px-Kabel-Symetrisch.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/7d/Kabel-Symetrisch.png/220px-Kabel-Symetrisch.png
Balanced cables come in many forms, such as
1/4" TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) - the unbalanced 1/4" is called TS (tip, sleeve) and most cell phone connectors are 3/32" TRRS (tip ring ring sleeve for L, R, Mic, Ground)
XLR - connector with 3 pins is male, connector receiving the 3 pins is female
Long unbalanced line level runs can pick up radio signals. Speaker cables tend to be TS for old amps, as the signal is pumped so high that interference is harder to incur. Newer amps have the speakon connectors, thus eliminating accidental unplugging of a 200-2000watt connection that could arc and destroy equipment.
Always stay balanced, spend extra on gear with bal in and bal out, and spend extra on amps, speakers and speakon cables!
AND BUY A POWER CONDITIONER!
DJ Clint
http://www.kansascityvinyldjs.com/
http://www.djs4kansascity.com/
Yes. Balanced signals send a counter-signal down the third wire to eliminate interference.
Read here or in a compressor, amplifier, eq manual, etc.
Balanced audio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Kabel-Symetrisch.png" class="image"><img alt="Kabel-Symetrisch.png" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Kabel-Symetrisch.png/220px-Kabel-Symetrisch.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/7d/Kabel-Symetrisch.png/220px-Kabel-Symetrisch.png
Balanced cables come in many forms, such as
1/4" TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) - the unbalanced 1/4" is called TS (tip, sleeve) and most cell phone connectors are 3/32" TRRS (tip ring ring sleeve for L, R, Mic, Ground)
XLR - connector with 3 pins is male, connector receiving the 3 pins is female
Long unbalanced line level runs can pick up radio signals. Speaker cables tend to be TS for old amps, as the signal is pumped so high that interference is harder to incur. Newer amps have the speakon connectors, thus eliminating accidental unplugging of a 200-2000watt connection that could arc and destroy equipment.
Always stay balanced, spend extra on gear with bal in and bal out, and spend extra on amps, speakers and speakon cables!
AND BUY A POWER CONDITIONER!
DJ Clint
http://www.kansascityvinyldjs.com/
http://www.djs4kansascity.com/
picture of balanced cable in action...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kabel-Symetrisch.png
the ground is not represented, unless that gray shielding is the ground...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kabel-Symetrisch.png
the ground is not represented, unless that gray shielding is the ground...