Amps

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!
oldschooldj

oldschooldj

Mac Daddy DJ
Jul 7, 2012
709
843
64
FT. CAMPBELL
I have had a little to much free time at work of late, things slower than normal for this time of year. It has allowed me the review a bunch of different DJ/Equipment forums. The one thing I see more than anything else is people wanting cheap amps, even when using and paying for qaulity speakers. Why would you want to go cheap on the one piece of equipment (in a passive system) that is responsible for boosting your sound, maintaining the signal quality, protecting your speakers and doing the most with the power available at the wall.

I can understand wanting light weight ( I just went thru that and paid a premium to get a quality amp that was still light) but there is truely no way to make a high power, low power draw and light weight amp cheap or am I missing something? I spent a good 10 hours at 5 different locations listening to a bunch of light weight amps, and I don't think I hear any better than anyone else, probably much worse with 26 years flying attack helicopters, 27 years drag racing and Djing, but I truely hear the difference between the following amps. Is the average DJ just going for price and talking their self into thinking these amps sound good or is there something I am missing.

IMHO good sounding amps under 20 lbs with high power:

Crown Itec
EV-CP series

Bad sounding:

Peavey IPR
Beringer Inuke
QSC GX
Crown XLS

I am NOT throwing stones here, I want honest input. Speakers seem much easier to listen to and purchase than amps and they (speakers) seem to have a tighter price margin when you go from a lower priced to a medium price and up. Amps seem to take a HUGE jump when you go from an average amp to a real quality amp.

Thanks Ray J.
 
Honestly .. I haven't heard a bad sounding amp in a long time. They are are pretty similar sound wise ... until you start pushing them.

Then .. the differences show up as the less expensive amps usually have lesser quality power supplies. Build quality is a minor concern unless you use them on tour where they will be subjected to a lot of vibrations and such.

I would buy a quality amp primarily for piece of mind that it will be "less likely" to beeak down, "more likely" to be able to handle being pushed and "more likely" to get it fixed if it does break (though I've heard of issues with even some of the better brands these days).

But little to no difference in sound.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
Behringer Inuke and the Peavey IPR amps can sound good if fed proper signals. I own an Inuke 6000 and it sounds as good as the QSC PLX amp that it replaced. The big difference is its weight and shear power it produces, with it I have more headroom. My signal processing is all digital (EQ and Crossover/DSP) so i think this helps. When pushed hard though these amps do not distort gracefully. But like I said if fed a good signal and they are kept out of clipping the sound great. I use my Inuke for tops and my GTD audio for subs.
 
Ray, I'm curious, do you use straight wall power or do you put it through a regulator first? I've used a regulator now for several years and my amps produce very consistent levels, regardless of what's coming from the walls. I can't say that I've A/Bed many (if any) amps. I know what my ears like and have enjoyed the IPR units I'm using.
 
Rick,

I use Furmans on all my rigs and when I have A/B tested these amps, both in the store or at home I have done everything I could to keep the playing field level or tried to give the advantage to the cheaper amp. I was really wanting to spend less money, but when these amps were driven they showed thier weaknesses. I bought a couple for home studio use and they are fine, however I never ask for more than a couple hundred watts per out of them.

I do a lot of teen dances and at least half the weddings I have done folks really wanted to get down and feel the bass. I use 2-8 18" subs for everything I do and try and play the system no louder than 80% of the amps capabilities, which on the cheaper amps seems to be 120% of what they are capable of. I really wanted to try a IPR7500 before I bought the last CP4000s, but they can't seem to get them on the shelf and the IPR3000 hit the DDT protection before my speakers reached 112 db on the metter and they are 100db 1w1m.

My cutomers want to feel the bass and they want it clear, without ear shattering volume, which takes a bunch of work in the processor on the frequency and a lot of power and headroom from the amps. I have not found a cheaper amp that can provide that yet. However until it ran out of gutts, which was quick the IPR3000 sounded way better than the Beringer or the XLS.

Ray J.
 
I love my QSC PLX2 amps .. light and powerful.

I have 3 of them to power my Yorkville Unity set and have never had an issue. I use a PLX3602 on the subs, and depending on the setup, either a PLX3102 on the tops and my PLX2502 on monitors, or I can bi-amp the tops with the 2 amps.

Previously I had a couple of Crest amps .. and they were getting heavy. Tried a Crown Xti on a pair of JBL MP215 I had and it was fine. Got rid of them all when I got a good deal on the QSCs (I had 4 for a while).

Most of the issues I see with lower end amps is on transient spikes (kick drum mainly). They can't seem to get enough power out instantaneously and the sound becomes muddy. However, if the amps are sized properly, there is minimal issue. I have moved to mainly powered stuff now, as I wanted to downsize my total equipment size so my amp days are limited.
 
All PA signal chains can use some EQ to get to a "flat response." Once the response is "flat"...the systems will be "audibly transparent"...the sound going "in" will be the sound coming "out"...and will sound (in broad terms) "the same." There will be differences in dispersion, SPL, and so on. BUT...if two PA systems are capable of producing the same SPL and coverage AND the systems are "audibly transparent"....they will sound "the same." The amount of EQ needed will be different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Use tube amps. A bit heavier (but not by much), but a 50 watt per side tube amp, is far more efficient than your "digital" amps that are "claiming" 1000 watts per side, and the sound is much better. Just make sure you have good speakers.

I almost got thrown out of my place, because I left the music on when walking the dog, or going to the pool, and it was crisp and clear over 100 yards away. And the hotter the tubes get, the better the sound.

Just my thoughts... :)
 
oldschooldj said:
I have had a little to much free time at work of late, things slower than normal for this time of year. It has allowed me the review a bunch of different DJ/Equipment forums. The one thing I see more than anything else is people wanting cheap amps, even when using and paying for qaulity speakers. Why would you want to go cheap on the one piece of equipment (in a passive system) that is responsible for boosting your sound, maintaining the signal quality, protecting your speakers and doing the most with the power available at the wall. It is because they have little to no knowledge of Electronics and SR Theories.

I can understand wanting light weight ( I just went thru that and paid a premium to get a quality amp that was still light) but there is truely no way to make a high power, low power draw and light weight amp cheap or am I missing something? I spent a good 10 hours at 5 different locations listening to a bunch of light weight amps, and I don't think I hear any better than anyone else, probably much worse with 26 years flying attack helicopters, 27 years drag racing and Djing, but I truely hear the difference between the following amps. Is the average DJ just going for price YES and talking their self into thinking these amps sound good or is there something I am missing.

IMHO good sounding amps under 20 lbs with high power:

Crown Itec
EV-CP series

Bad sounding:

Peavey IPR
Beringer Inuke
QSC GX
Crown XLS

I am NOT throwing stones here, I want honest input. Speakers seem much easier to listen to and purchase than amps and they (speakers) seem to have a tighter price margin when you go from a lower priced to a medium price and up. Amps seem to take a HUGE jump when you go from an average amp to a real quality amp.

Thanks Ray J.
Click to expand...
Some Comments above in Red.

I just replaced a Peavey PV1500 $469.99 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PV1500 with a Crown XLi 2500 $449.99 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLI2500 Even though they are still in the same price range the Crown was more powerful and gave out a much cleaner sound. I use it to dive my Bose 802s for Mids and Highs only. Nice natural sound! I also prefer to use an External Electronic Crossover vs the DSP in the Amps. To me it is much easier to tweak on the fly depending on what kind of Crossover one uses. When using several DSP amps and their settings, if one is not careful, depending on how the settings are made, some frequencies/harmonics can go missing if an overlap is not made between the cut off points on one amp to another.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
The cheapest amp i have is a QSC RMX 850 that powers my horns in my rig. And i've learned from someone i consider my mentor in pro sound, that It doesnt have enough voltage swing to properly power the DE-750's in my horns.

And as far as "Cheap" "Lightweight" "Hits Hard" sub amps Please pick only 2. I have a PLX 3602 and it runs out of steam pretty fast, I also have QSC Powerlight PL236's that do a much better job on subs.

And those of you that claim the really cheap light amps "sound just fine' on subs, Should really a/b them with something proper like a Crown Macro-Tech or a Lab Gruppen QSC PL380 Or A Crest CA-12 or Pro 9200

BIG difference in the sound,
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Precisionpower said:
The cheapest amp i have is a QSC RMX 850 that powers my horns in my rig. And i've learned from someone i consider my mentor in pro sound, that It doesnt have enough voltage swing to properly power the DE-750's in my horns.

And as far as "Cheap" "Lightweight" "Hits Hard" sub amps Please pick only 2. I have a PLX 3602 and it runs out of steam pretty fast, I also have QSC Powerlight PL236's that do a much better job on subs.

And those of you that claim the really cheap light amps "sound just fine' on subs, Should really a/b them with something proper like a Crown Macro-Tech or a Lab Gruppen QSC PL380 Or A Crest CA-12 or Pro 9200

BIG difference in the sound,
Click to expand...

See .. here is where the depends comes in. I have never run out of steam with a PLX3602, but it is matched well with my Unity Sub. The PL380 has twice the power, so it may be suitable to subs that need it. It would be overkill for my subs.

If you match properly the rating of the amp to the speaker, I still put it that there is no discernible sound difference between any of them .. the differences come in impulse control, DSP capability, and long term viability. It's not price, but fitness for the role.
 
Precisionpower said:
The cheapest amp i have is a QSC RMX 850 that powers my horns in my rig. And i've learned from someone i consider my mentor in pro sound, that It doesnt have enough voltage swing to properly power the DE-750's in my horns.

And as far as "Cheap" "Lightweight" "Hits Hard" sub amps Please pick only 2. I have a PLX 3602 and it runs out of steam pretty fast, I also have QSC Powerlight PL236's that do a much better job on subs.

And those of you that claim the really cheap light amps "sound just fine' on subs, Should really a/b them with something proper like a Crown Macro-Tech or a Lab Gruppen QSC PL380 Or A Crest CA-12 or Pro 9200

BIG difference in the sound,
Click to expand...
Let me please say this. All the companies mentioned in this thread are companies that make quality amps. So now it's a matter of picking the right amp for what your needs are. Now what didn't get mentioned are Pyle Pro, GLI or Technical Pro amps which are all companies that make low end garbage amps. Their high end amps are garbage. I was in a store that had a Technical Pro amp and it was so light weight that I could have tossed it on the other side of the store that was at least 35 feet away with ease. You know what is funny to me. I'll bet a lot of you have never heard of Technical Pro. They make passive and powered speakers. Also amps. The real fun part is how much power their amps say on the box can produce for such a cheap price. If you gave me one of their amps I wouldn't ever use it. I would sell it right away.

Last thing is I have the same QSC 2450 amp I bought when I got back into the business over 10 years ago and it's still working. The only 2 issues with that amp in all these years is the power button stopped working and I too it to the shop to be repaired. The other issue is that sometimes you have to use contact spray as the knobs for the volume controls start to pick up static after a while. Great amp! Worth every penny I paid for it. It worked so great I bought another one and eventually sold it.
 
Last edited:
rickryan.com said:
Ray, I'm curious, do you use straight wall power or do you put it through a regulator first? I've used a regulator now for several years and my amps produce very consistent levels, regardless of what's coming from the walls. I can't say that I've A/Bed many (if any) amps. I know what my ears like and have enjoyed the IPR units I'm using.
Click to expand...

It has been mentioned before and I will throw it out here again. Do NOT use so called regulators or UPS units inline with amplifiers! They are for electronics and mixers. Amps power supplies need all the power than can get, regulator restrict that and actually hurt the performance of amplifiers. Don't believe me, don't believe the marketing hype from manufacturers, educate yourself.
 
Scott Harris said:
It has been mentioned before and I will throw it out here again. Do NOT use so called regulators or UPS units inline with amplifiers! They are for electronics and mixers. Amps power supplies need all the power than can get, regulator restrict that and actually hurt the performance of amplifiers. Don't believe me, don't believe the marketing hype from manufacturers, educate yourself.
Click to expand...

Okay, now you have my curiosity as this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say to NOT use a regulator. In my rig, I have a furman AC1215 and it powers mixer, wireless mic, laptop, and 2 power amps. I regularly work in places that show 115, 110 or even 105 volts coming from the wall and it was always my understanding that the voltage is converted to 120. I could use some "education" if you don't mind.
 
Last edited:
I NEVER plug amplifiers into my furmans... Those are always run to wall power or my distro with heavy, (shortest extension cords) i can get away with...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
I have a Monster Power Pro 3500 in my amp rack and have run my 3 (and once 4) amps off of the unit since I got them. Generally, the power conditioners will do no harm to the devices plugged in, but may, as suggested, limit total current to the amps. I've never seen an issue with the 3500, as I have only topped 12A draw once, and I really like the ammeter and voltmeter built in. Maybe the beefiness of the 3500 allows more concurrent draw.

Not sure I would run it differently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
I have 2 Furman's and really don't like to plug up gear to anything else. We had an issue once that I heard what happened. I wasn't there at the time. I heard a kid accidentally knocked out the extension cord that fried some of the equipment. That meant things needed to be repaired. So to avoid such a disaster again I make sure we use the Furman's all the time. Some will use a basic power strip thinking that's good enough. If I do I make sure it's plugged into the Furman. Better safe then sorry. I never noticed a power loss using a furman on any amps we have. If they are an amp themselves or powered speakers. I'm with you Steve. If it's not broke then don't fix it.
 
Thanks to all for the input. I also use 3 each 20 amp furmans in my systems, one in the small rig and two in the large. I have never had a humm, buzz or any other noise in the systems. I love the power up and down features with the furmans. I also like to be able to monitor the voltage and amp draw while playing.

I guess I am a little bit of a wuss when it comes to my equipment. I never push it really hard as I don't like clipping amps or replacing drivers. I have always been of the school of thought if you have to push the system hard, you don't have the right system, you need to add more speakers and amps. My limited experience with sound is if you get the right frequencys in the right place and have enough speakers and headroom in your amp, you can play at a moderate volume and knock peoples socks off with sound quality.

Ray J.
 
oldschooldj said:
Thanks to all for the input. I also use 3 each 20 amp furmans in my systems, one in the small rig and two in the large. I have never had a humm, buzz or any other noise in the systems. I love the power up and down features with the furmans. I also like to be able to monitor the voltage and amp draw while playing.

I guess I am a little bit of a wuss when it comes to my equipment. I never push it really hard as I don't like clipping amps or replacing drivers. I have always been of the school of thought if you have to push the system hard, you don't have the right system, you need to add more speakers and amps. My limited experience with sound is if you get the right frequencys in the right place and have enough speakers and headroom in your amp, you can play at a moderate volume and knock peoples socks off with sound quality.

Ray J.
Click to expand...
Amen Ray! A big thumbs up for that statement. I am sometimes chided as having a lot stuff when I go to a venue. I tell them that the system is designed for Live Sound and Clarity. I personally don't like my system sounding like music coming out of tin foil. Once they hear it, they have to agree. It is powerful but not overwhelming.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back