Bar & Club My First "Real" Karaoke Gig

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steve149

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
Sep 26, 2011
28,175
45,949
Connecticut
Well .. First real Karaoke Gig last night. Had done it before informally. Mixed crowd of 20 somethings up to my age. Probably 50 people. Doing it next week for a 24th birthday party. Used 2 light stands (4Bar and Revo4), but will go to one stand next time as there just wasn't enough room. I also need to redo my wiring to minimize the cords going to the stands to keep everything out of the way. I probably DJ'd for an hour before I got the first taker (around 10) and went till 2.

I need to figure out what to do with the floor monitor. Some singers wanted it, but too many of them don't know how to use a mic and I had to fight feedback all night as they waved the mics all around. I thought sticking to 2 stand mics that would help, but the first singer undid the velcro holding the cables and it was a lost cause from there. Maybe I get some of the cheaper wireless mics from GTD I see people using. I wasn't going to put my Audio-Technica mics out. I did use the Driverack to monitor feedback on the mains .. need something for the monitor as well, maybe one of my Sharks or the dbx AFS.

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Steve, congrats on your first real show. If you find anything sticky on your floor monitor I bet I can guess where it came from.:triwink:
 
Steve, here are a few tips to combat the feedback issue. Most of the time, except for very large shows I do not use a monitor. When I do, I put it off to the side so it is not directly in the line of fire to the singers. The reason I do not use a monitor is because I try and place my speakers far enough but behind the singers so they can hear the music.

I have no fear in letting the singers use my EV RE 2 wireless Mics. They cost about $400.00 each but this is why I bought them, so they can be used. With a full system they make the singers sound good, especially the ones who can really sing. If there is a drunk who wants to sing, then I let that person used my wired "Elvis" mic, which is not designed to be taken out of its holder since it is screwed in.

Using boom mic stands instead of regular Mic stands also help in reducing the likelihood of singers taking out the mics from their holders. The regular Mic stands causes the singer to have to stand back from the base/stand yet lean forward to the mic which can become uncomfortable.

BTW I have a question. do you use Dual TV Screens, one for the singers and one for the audience? I find the Karaoke show is more fun when the audience can see the lyrics. I always try to setup near to an existing TV screen in the venue so I can patch into it.

Congrats on your show man! ;)
 
Thanks..

I'm going to play around with the monitor placement this coming weekend. I don't have a lot of room to move the main speakers back, the area is only about 5' deep. Thanks for the suggestion though, I may try the monitor off to the side, but the a majority of the singers were drunk and waving the mic around, so not sure that will help a lot. Maybe as it takes off, we'll get some more "professional" karaoke singers (there were a couple that had been asking the owner to do it).

Probably a similar issue with using boom stands (I do have a bunch). Not enough room to get them back enough. There is a walkway directly in front of the singers to get to the patio area and they were already only a foot in front of the light stands. I think it helped with nerves to have the mic in hand (though I was panicking when one of the younger guys starting spinning one like a lasso).

I had brought a 2nd monitor for the audience, but was challenged with space, so didn't set it up (I have a VGA splitter). I plan to consolidate the lighting and eliminate 1 stand, so I may bring my larger 32" for the audience and set it up against the back wall. I still need to work on the front lcd monitor. I (and the singers) liked the placement low and in front, but a few dancers nearly hit it.

As to the mics, I'll see. I used one of my AT mics, but the thought of beer going in (almost had one poured in the Behringer on the floor) and dropping them, gives me a little unease.
 
testing testing.... is this mic on?

I was going to say much the same thing about the monitor speaker.... unless you are in a large venue where your mains have to be placed to far away from the singers for proper coverage then a monitor speaker isn't truely necessary, but if it is desired placeing it off axis from your singers or even behind them instead of directly in front will help curb the possiblity of feedback but, wont eliminate it totally. You will always have amature singers who will drop the mic below their waists durring breaks in songs, turning towards speakers and roaming in front of them....or {gasp} cupping the mic or holding it off to the side like they are about to bust a cap in someone... don't know the effects this has on the sound stage.
 
jokerswild said:
testing testing.... is this mic on?

I was going to say much the same thing about the monitor speaker.... unless you are in a large venue where your mains have to be placed to far away from the singers for proper coverage then a monitor speaker isn't truely necessary, but if it is desired placeing it off axis from your singers or even behind them instead of directly in front will help curb the possiblity of feedback but, wont eliminate it totally. You will always have amature singers who will drop the mic below their waists durring breaks in songs, turning towards speakers and roaming in front of them....or {gasp} cupping the mic or holding it off to the side like they are about to bust a cap in someone... don't know the effects this has on the sound stage.
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I don't think most of the singers noticed or cared, but the couple of karaoke regulars were asking for "more me" in the floor monitor as we say in live sound. I'm not used to having monitors as close as I did (basically a 6" in front and pointing almost up), but space dictated it. I'm not sure about monitors behind the singers, but off to one side may allow me flexibility. Another issue I had was the mixer I used ( a Behringer RX1202F ). There is no way to mute a channel, so I had to drop a fader and lower the aux send constantly to keep things in check. That will be changed out for a small live sound mixer (probably the A&H ZED12FX) going forward. The next gig is a 24 yr old's b'day party, so I'm assuming they will all be amateurs and will all be drunk, but we'll try for a good time for all.
 
steve149 said:
Thanks..

I'm going to play around with the monitor placement this coming weekend. I don't have a lot of room to move the main speakers back, the area is only about 5' deep. Thanks for the suggestion though, I may try the monitor off to the side, but the a majority of the singers were drunk and waving the mic around, so not sure that will help a lot. Maybe as it takes off, we'll get some more "professional" karaoke singers (there were a couple that had been asking the owner to do it).

Probably a similar issue with using boom stands (I do have a bunch). Not enough room to get them back enough. Booms can be mounted sideways to the singers somewhat like how they are used for Pianists! There is a walkway directly in front of the singers to get to the patio area and they were already only a foot in front of the light stands. I think it helped with nerves to have the mic in hand (though I was panicking when one of the younger guys starting spinning one like a lasso).

I had brought a 2nd monitor for the audience, but was challenged with space, so didn't set it up (I have a VGA splitter). I plan to consolidate the lighting and eliminate 1 stand, so I may bring my larger 32" for the audience and set it up against the back wall. I still need to work on the front lcd monitor. I (and the singers) liked the placement low and in front, but a few dancers nearly hit it. I tend to place mine somewhat sideways not directly in front the singers, They can see it without having to turn their heads, I use a 26" TV for my singers,

As to the mics, I'll see. I used one of my AT mics, but the thought of beer going in (almost had one poured in the Behringer on the floor) and dropping them, gives me a little unease.I always use foam screens on my mics. At the end of the night I take them off, give the mic a quick wipe with an antibacterial wipe, take the foam screens home and wash them with detergent and Lysol.
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Some suggestions are above in Red. For Lighting Space saving, I use Lighting stands on which I place my speakers. Crank them up high and you have space beneath them to put a couple of lights. These are great for Karaoke. They can be attached below the speaker. http://americandj.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Category=&ItemNumber=1924 & http://americandj.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Category=&ItemNumber=1931
 
Ceiling height isn't enough to get the lights high enough under the JBLs, so they need to go on a separate stand. The 4Bar needs to be at the top of the pole anyway. The problem with booms, even sideways, is space. It's just too limited when 3-4 people go up (I do have to start enforcing a limit as one group went up and by the time people stopped joining them, there was 8 people there).

The main LCD is 17", but at that distance, is plenty big. I'll use a 32 for the audience placed as far out of the way as possible. I'm still not sold on using my AT wireless. I will check out something cheaper .. right now the 2 Digital Reference mics are fine and if someone drops one, I won't sweat it. I was going to use my standard live mic (Sennheiser 835), but the DRs sounded good.
 
As for the mics, I HIGHLY recommend those GTD Audio mics. Dr. Zinc recommended them to me and I gave them a try. I had been using mostly Shure SM-58s at that time. Almost to a singer, I got huge compliments on the GTD, most saying they liked the sound better than the Shures ( BLASPHEMY!)

One other feature that they have is how they set channel. No tweakers required. Set the receiver, point the mic at it and push a button. Done. Green-yellow-red battery indicators on the mics, as well as frequency displays.

I have absolutely no affiliation to GTD, I just really love the things.

As for the monitor: In small spaces I don't use one. If I can use a diagonal speaker setup, the singer can hear themselves fine on the one that faces them. If you have a speaker to the side of the singer, canting it in the singer's direction a touch will also work just fine, and no feedback issues.
 
I have the GTD mics in my sights. I really love my Audio-Technica wireless (series 3000 - have 3), but watching the drunks flip the mics around, I'm going to pass (I do use one for myself). The big issue with the monitor is the tight quarters. I'd like them to be a little further out from the mic stands, but someone will trip over them. The 2nd time I did this, I had it on the side angled in and slightly lower volume. People still pulled the mics from the stands and pointed them at the monitor, so more tweaking necessary.

Still need to figure how to keep the group sings down (6-8 people). 2 will get up and start singing and then start inviting friends up and they all go up. I know I'm going to have a light stand knocked over.
 
Congrats on the gig.
I have tried using a floor monitor for the singers, but it mostly confuses them and does require fighting a lot of feedback. So I dropped it from my regular karaoke setup and no one really misses it. I actually use 2 cheap peavey mics for the Karaoke singers. No complaints yet after 3 years. Cheap to replace. I have the GTD mics and they are good, I use one for myself, but it only takes one drunk to think he can walk the mic around the bar while singing to cause problems, then everyone starts to do it. Trying to keep your eyes on one two walking singers.... not worth the hassle. I wouldn't worry about boom stands for the mics. I have found most singers like to hold them in their hands when they sing.
 
When I use a floor monitor, I use a powered two way Peavey wedge. It has been quite awhile now since I have had to use it because I usually place my tops up pretty high and can thus angle them in just a bit. Besides I use a heavier sound than the regular Karaoke rigs so people don't have a hard time hearing the music or themselves.
As for the Mics, I want a good show, I want the singers to sound good so I have no problem letting them use my expensive mics. That is why they were purchased, to be used. If I see a drunk coming up to sing, they will have to either use my corded SM 58 or the Elvis Mic which is screwed on to the stand.
 
rickryan.com said:
Steve, you've gotten some good advice. I'll add my voice in to forget the floor monitor. Use a side-fill at low volume. Oh yea, did I mention how much I hate karaoke gigs? ;)
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I find them fun. Have another in a week. I will probably ditch the floor monitor, add the cheaper wireless, and maybe an Elvis mic.

I ditched one of the light stands due to space and mounted the Revo4 on an arm under the 4Bar. Next project is request station so I can limit the song book reprints. Software is $25 from TriceraSoft (works with my JustKaraoke) and I have an old laptop to use for now. The books seem to find their way to the bar and then sit there and no one can get them anyway. even the one I put next to me walks.
 
I almost hate to bring this up here, but since Steve is newer to karaoke, I think I should:
The karaoke business has entered an extremely litigous time. Though you shouldn't run into any problems at private clubs like an Elks, if you plan to work public bars on a regular basis, please make sure you have all the discs to match the tracks in your PC, if you use one. Two Pita karaoke mfrs. are annoying a whole bunch of folks as a new source of income....
 
It's good to bring it up and I do have all the discs.
 
steve149 said:
It's good to bring it up and I do have all the discs.
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Steve,
We used to have a Karaoke Forum. It was very helpful and had lots of information. However, as always, there were debates and opinions were expressed. Some of those debates got quite heated, names were called, people were verbally attacked, things went South real quick. As to what tipped the scales to Omit the Forum, you will have to ask Dan. I felt it had a lot to do with Misinformation.
 
I think we can sneak in a smattering of Karaoke issues as some are pertinent to DJs as well. Karaoke song licensing may not, so we'll stop here as it doesn't matter much to me as I'm good.
 
steve149 said:
I think we can sneak in a smattering of Karaoke issues as some are pertinent to DJs as well. Karaoke song licensing may not, so we'll stop here as it doesn't matter much to me as I'm good.
Click to expand...

That's all I wanted- didn't want to re-load the stuff that ended the K-word forum..
 
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