Making My Job Easier

[ahoustondj]

Last night, I took a ride out and visited three Clubs. The first one was a half a mile from my home, the same one where I did last Saturday's Gig. There was a new guy there doing Karaoke using a pair of these http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B212D.aspx no subs. He had a small console propped up on one of the Club's Bar stools (Very Tacky), the Singer's TV Screen was also propped up on another Bar Stool, extremely tacky.

My criticism has a reason. I would like to do Karaoke there on a weekday night but a few of the owners (A partnership of several people) each have their friends who they want to use. The other Karaoke guy before him was the one I mentioned in a previous post that had one speaker on the floor and the other on a tripod.

As can be imagined, the sound was lousy. Who would want to sing on a system like that one? There were only a handful of people there, not enough to support a DJs fee from what I could see. Maybe this guy was doing it for free! This can be beneficial for me, in that if and when I am considered, I can charge a whole lot more because the Client has already seen what does not work.

Very few Karaoke Hosts use a decent system. It is mainly the Eons, Mackies or Behringers that I see. Not bad for a house event but certainly inadequate in a Club, especially with no Sub. Sometimes less is not good enough. Others may differ but I feel any music reproduction system should be well chosen. It makes no difference if it is Background Music, Karaoke or Dancing Music. That is my rant.

 

[steve149]

A pair of 12" powered tops is sufficient for most Karaoke, unless it is a large room (you didn't mention it's size), so not sure why it was lousy (I have a little brother of that speaker - 8" - and it sounds ok as a monitor). Most Karaoke music doesn't have deep bass in it and a 12" will reproduce every part of the singer's spectrum. If they were playing music as well, then yes, it's probably deficient.

The intended use does make a difference, Dance Music, background music and Karaoke have different needs out of a system. Not saying an overkill rig wouldn't do them all, but subs for a system just doing background music is ludicrous. For Karaoke, as mentioned, the music is a limiting factor, so subs may or may not be needed. Dance is a different creature.

I agree that using bar stools would look crappy though. And if they were doing it for free, that would be another reason not to bring in the artillery (unless one was gunning for the paying job).

 

[ahoustondj]

A pair of 12" powered tops is sufficient for most Karaoke, unless it is a large room (you didn't mention it's size), so not sure why it was lousy (I have a little brother of that speaker - 8" - and it sounds ok as a monitor). Most Karaoke music doesn't have deep bass in it and a 12" will reproduce every part of the singer's spectrum. If they were playing music as well, then yes, it's probably deficient.

The intended use does make a difference, Dance Music, background music and Karaoke have different needs out of a system. Not saying an overkill rig wouldn't do them all, but subs for a system just doing background music is ludicrous. For Karaoke, as mentioned, the music is a limiting factor, so subs may or may not be needed. Dance is a different creature.

I agree that using bar stools would look crappy though. And if they were doing it for free, that would be another reason not to bring in the artillery (unless one was gunning for the paying job).

Steve,
This is one time I choose to totally disagree with you about what the needs are for Karaoke systems in a Club. I am going by what I have seen and heard, good and mostly bad...plus my own experience using a Club's system or mine. There is low end in Karaoke Music. Low end needs to be properly reproduced to give body to the music. Low end won't be derived from 12" speakers 6 feet up on Tripods period. That base was sounding like Congas playing inside a plastic box.

If the system does not commensurate with the size of the room, the acoustics can play havoc with the sound. I won't even use a 12" speaker in my living room let alone in a club. To answer your comment about the size of the club I would have to guess 100' by 200' with 20' ceilings. Concrete floors and walls. This is the same Club where I used four scoops last Saturday. People love to sing on good sounding systems not the "tinny" sounding "tin foil" high frequency sound from these little speakers.

 

[Scott Harris]

Why be so bitter about someone else's setup? You are missing the point. 90% of people (maybe more) don't really care, they are just there to drink and have fun.

 

[ahoustondj]

Why be so bitter about someone else's setup? You are missing the point. 90% of people (maybe more) don't really care, they are just there to drink and have fun.

I think they care Scott, they showed that by their absence. I did a Karaoke Show there and had singers lined up from start to finish. However, that was my production not the Club's. They would like for me to do their Karaoke but the money is the problem. I won't go cheap. I also refuse to use the minimal.

 

[Scott Harris]

Karaoke places around here are packed, they don't ask for people to sign up or announce how to do it. They are booked solid all night long. The equipment in use is usually garbage, but no one cares. If it sounds bad, you need another mai tai.

 

[Hank Davidson]

Karaoke places around here are packed, they don't ask for people to sign up or announce how to do it. They are booked solid all night long. The equipment in use is usually garbage, but no one cares. If it sounds bad, you need another mai tai.

Scott's right. Also, the packed bars in and around town that have DJs or satellite often have sub-par audio. Why? Like Scott said, the people don't care. Besides, those folks don't respect your stuff enough to offer them anything better. The only places you'll find high end stuff at are high end places.

If the bar owner in post one has two guys doing karaoke for cheap, that's what they set out to get. As long as the host is likable and satisfies, the audio and setup are moot. If they choose to pay more for quality, they will have to lose money or take it out of the clientele. You don't do farm work in a tuxedo.

I think they care Scott, they showed that by their absence. I did a Karaoke Show there and had singers lined up from start to finish. However, that was my production not the Club's.

There you go. It was your crowd and not the club's. The club can be empty for a great many reasons other than the karaoke guy's setup. Bar flies are a fickle breed. Many of the regular clients choose to leave when the management changes things up. Neighborhood bars are personal places to folks. You have to be careful about change.

 

[Scott Harris]

Just a guess but I think the only people with good equipment are the people who have legal music.

 

[Hank Davidson]

Just a guess but I think the only people with good equipment are the people who have legal music.

I would debate that. That's a subject that people care even less about than the gear. I would guess more than you think of the high-end guys and multi-ops around our parts multiply libraries and pirate. I personally have seen it. That whole debate has become so passe. The general public, guests and clients all have the "well, can't you just download it" attitude.

 

[steve149]

Canute - We've disagreed before and I'm pretty sure we will again. The reality is, as the others have said, that most patrons don't know the difference. In your isolated case of a large club, then maybe the equipment differences will show. In the ones I do, the sub wouldn't make a shred of difference for the karaoke (probably would for the music in between).

And there are folks using EONs, Mackies and Behringers that will hold their own against 30 year old Bose speakers, don't blanket everything ..

 

[DJ SVO]

As long as the customer has fun that's all they care about. You should see the main clubs in Acapulco. They have top of the line equipment but when they close people migrate to smaller clubs with equipment you wouldn't find except the back of a van. The people are so drunk they could care less if the sound was coming out of JBL's or Pyle Pro speakers and lighting from high manufacturers to coffee can par cans.

 

[Jon Tuck]

Sounds like its making your life more difficult since they continue to use inferior offerings. Apparently they are ready to pay the big bucks. I know on certain nights I could fill the house with the most amazing system, great ambiance and great drink specials and then there would be a dud night here an there. Perhaps the Texas Rangers were playing the Yank Me's that night. I have a time or two went to karaoke shows having to wait to sing 2 hours on a system like this that had additional 12 inch peavey powereds connected to it. The equipment didnt make any difference in most cases as it was the performer and the drinks being served at a decent price and timely. Heres a similar picture of what some folks have used with great success. Im not one who has used it but I have ran gear that wasnt up to even a basic standard for karaoke and had much success. A sub is not what one wants to hear their voices through. Do you see subs setup at public speeches etc? Circuses charge for admission but hope the show keeps the kids around to have parents buy 15 dollar popcorn. The clowns help sell the snacks.

 

[Steve LeBlanc]

Why be so bitter about someone else's setup? You are missing the point. 90% of people (maybe more) don't really care, they are just there to drink and have fun.

Easy - He isn't doing the gig....

 

[ahoustondj]

A sub is not what one wants to hear their voices through. Do you see subs setup at public speeches etc? Circuses charge for admission but hope the show keeps the kids around to have parents buy 15 dollar popcorn. The clowns help sell the snacks.

You all make me laugh. Karaoke is not all about voices....whoever said that subs should be used for voices anyway? The system is for the whole musical content of the Karaoke song, a Live mixer can blend in the voice and with enough power, the singer feels like they are singing in a band. Last time I looked I say bands having Bass speakers, at least here in Houston. I repeat, my goal is to stay away from a sound that sounds like regular DJ speakers. I achieve that quite well. Those who want to follow the masses and use what everyone else is using, let them go ahead.

And there are folks using EONs, Mackies and Behringers that will hold their own against 30 year old Bose speakers, don't blanket everything ..

very rarely have I ever used the Bose by themselves in full range. We all know that they lack in Bass at Full range. So how could those guys using Eons etc compare with my system that encompasses both Bose as well as subs?

 

[Jon Tuck]

and you will be browsing the clubs with two speakers for most karaoke shows and not hosting them apparently even in Houston. They dont want to pay you properly other than the odd occasion so it appears. But having said that Canute you are the senior here and I digress. You likely know more than any of us here.

 

[ahoustondj]

and you will be browsing the clubs with two speakers for most karaoke shows and not hosting them apparently even in Houston. They dont want to pay you properly other than the odd occasion so it appears. But having said that Canute you are the senior here and I digress. You likely know more than any of us here.

I have no freakin idea what you meant by what you said? To which "odd occasion" are you referring? Personally I would rather host shows (Karaoke or otherwise) than wait to be hired. I do my own Productions whenever I can. I have a mix of different types of Gigs that allow me to have a constant cash flow which adds to my bottom line. This coming weekend I am going back here, http://www.willowforkclub.com/, in May I will be there again. They do Dances and also Karaoke shows as Special Events, not on a weekly basis. I am the one that gets called now to do those shows. Those people have beaucoup $$$$$, they will pay you well if you treat them well. I do my best to give them a first Class service because I like the big $$$$$. The chaps with the two lil' blaring speakers can offer Coach Service. They will only get Coach Fare

 

[Jon Tuck]

in regards to this specific thread you arent doing this bars karaoke and the guy with his monitor etc on barstools is. Just sayin it sounds like your jealous or something.

 

[ahoustondj]

in regards to this specific thread you arent doing this bars karaoke and the guy with his monitor etc on barstools is. Just sayin it sounds like your jealous or something.

No I am not jealous at all. I was there last week when they sent home the other guy early because of the same reason. No participation, low attendance and a lame show. This chap won't last long either. I will share ideas with others in this Forum as to how to improve something. I won't do the same to others in Houston who are in my market. They can either sink or swim. The more these Clients and Bar owners learn that not everyone with some Music and two speakers are really DJs then the more these guys will have to improve or fall by the wayside.