The $400 bribe for 4 songs now.

[JoeChartreuse]

Toq, This exactly why I DON'T take bribes.


1) The man was allowed to take charge of a mic, and abuse your system, spewing profanity into the mic. ( As soon as any unauthorized person grabs one of my mics, it gets turned off until I relieve them of it.)

2) He was allowed, after you posted no more songs, to take charge of the show. It was no longer yours- you sold it to him. ( No one- not the customers, or the venue owners, or my mother- no one runs my show but me)


3) Handling this guy: In my case I think I can handle it ( I'm a MMA fighter myself, 5 yrs local champ. I recently retired, but I'm still in shape and way above his weight class). But if you couldn't, then the venue should have had help available.


There's an old story regarding a man prepositioning a woman. He asks if she would sleep with him. She says no, not if he were the last man on earth. He says he is rich. Would she sleep with him for a million dollars? She says for a million she would do it. He asks if she would do it for a hundred dollars. She says "What do you think I am, a prostitute?" To which he replies: " We have already established WHAT you are, now it's just a matter of negotiating price."

Toq, I am aware that in Asian karaoke bars people pay to sing, and some small perks can, and are expected to be, bought. However, this was WAY over the limit of acceptability, anywhere.

A question comes to mind: Since you were closed out, and this guy sang 4 times, doesn't that mean the other singers' places in the rotation were sold as well? If so, did they see any of the proceeds?

Sorry about coming down so hard Toq. You're a good guy, but I beleve you made a huge mistake here......

 

[Guest]

Let's put a flip on this steve.... No cash involved...

I've done a corporate party or two. Do you

a. run things as fairly as possible
b. put a rating system based on employees company rank

When there's a company CEO, Presisdent, Owner you do not sit there crying "Oh I have to be fair to everyone, wait your turn". NO!! You cater to their every whim. They sign the checks, they're the ones who will call you back asking for repeat business.

I think everyone plays favorites a little or a lot at their shows, but don't admit to it.

Actually Toqer you are wrong in fact I just recently did a gig for the Federal Executive Insitute, and explained to the "Boss" that I ran my program according to order they signed up in period. In fact I got a little grief from her about it she brought over the Top Dog who wanted to know why I could not bend the rules (with a wink) I explained it in a very simple manner that I was running a computerized system and it would mean shutting down and reloading the system to change the order (with a wink) he explained it to the "Boss" like this. "Sorry he can't do it!"

And yes I do repeat business with them every six months and every six months there is a new "BOSS" to deal with, every six months the Top Dog and I go through the same dance for the "BOSS".

With all corporate events that I may be doing Karaoke at we have the night setup in a program the head honcho has a set time to deliver his address to the company and other things are done, after the party is "turned over" to me then I am in control.

I learned that leason a long long time ago.

But again the situation you are in is indeed different. The venue owns and runs the system you just work for them. So you have to do what they want you to do and run it the way they want it run.

BTW Napoleon still needs to be locked up!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Let's put a flip on this steve.... No cash involved...

I've done a corporate party or two. Do you

a. run things as fairly as possible
b. put a rating system based on employees company rank

When there's a company CEO, Presisdent, Owner you do not sit there crying "Oh I have to be fair to everyone, wait your turn". NO!! You cater to their every whim. They sign the checks, they're the ones who will call you back asking for repeat business.

I think everyone plays favorites a little or a lot at their shows, but don't admit to it.

Private events are run differently, that's why they are private. I work more than one venue, and some of my singers follow me. I am an independent contractor, providing a service to a venue. However, since I am in business for myself, I must provide a continuity of service that will keep all of my customers happy AND maintain my business reputation.

I believe you mentioned that 7 Bamboo was doing karaoke when you were playing with GI Joes. If they did it before you, they may well do it AFTER. If and when you work another venue ( If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I think you said this was your only one?) your reputation is what's going to bring in the singers. This is why I spell out my policies with owners in advance. Otherwise, I'll have owners telling me to put them or their buddies up all of the time, destroying the rotation. OR choosing the type of music. OR changing days and start times. OR etc......you get the idea.

If they bribe the owners, then ANNOUNCE that the OWNERS wish to have this guy sing four times in a row. Keep your rep clean. You'll need it later. As for the money- leave it. You have picked up some of the Japanese culture. So have I ( many years of training with Japanese teachers). If you read the book of 5 rings, check the book of war. Once you diverge from the Straight Path, it will branch away, and you will not find your way back.


As for bada** BOB: Anybody can be taken at any given time.

I have studied, Judo, Goju Karate, Jujutsu ( Okanawan, The root of many martial arts- not the Gracie distilled Judo), and Aiki-Jujutsu from Japan. I have studied Chin-Na Gung Fu from China, Kuntau Silat from Indonesia, and Krav Maga out of Israel ( English spelling changes- translation of different alphabet). Throw some boxing and wrestling into the mix. I am Dan ranked ( Black Belt degrees) in the Japanese styles, highly ranked in the Chinese and Indonesian. I have been a fighter and a bouncer for many years. Why do I bring all of this stuff up? To show I'm tough? No, just the opposite. I've been blindsided by a pool cue or beer mug in my time. In other words, I had my butt kicked by the right person at the wrong time. THERE AIN'T NO BRUCE LEE! Bruce Lee wasn't even Bruce Lee. He never fought competitively ( though there are stories floating around).

The point of all of that is if a bully attempts a takeover, it's time to toss the bully- and it can ALWAYS be done- just a matter of how the force is applied.

 

[kayleigh]

Toq, is the 7 a bar where you pay-per-song? I know you take "bribes" for skipping singers, speeding up songs, etc., but I've never heard you mention $-per-song. Even if no, if everyone (regulars) know about the "skipping singer bribe," I (speaking as a singer) might have tolerated a two-song bribe, but I would have been with the crowd on the third and fourth songs. Especially knowing your rotation. I announce at the end of every night, "If you didn't sing enough, get here earlier and you'll sing lots more. It's my guarantee." No one who's come back earlier on another night has ever griped.

 

[toqer]

Steve:
Wink wink nod nod. Sounds like you were doing things according to a higher power with a wink.

Joe/kayleigh: Yah, they've always charged $1 per turn at bat.

Nobodies song gets lost ever. I utilize GTA (Global Tempo Adjust) to adjust the speed of the songs if I need to squeeze an extra 3-4 in. On a 2 hour playlist if I up the tempo 7%, that can give me an addition 8.4 minutes of time to work with (not counting quickly advancing the playlist when it's a minute of instrumental at the end, like the SC version of NIN closer, that saves a bundle of time too)

Yah, it's all out in the open here. No smoke and mirrors, no secret bribe stuffed in an envelope. $1 to sing, and $1 for every person you cut in front of in front of the playlist.

Each $100 Rob gave me, I waved in front of the crowd.. Wish I had saved the video from it.

The $1 per song folks spend grants them the right to do whatever they want on stage during the duration of thier song. Sometimes we have folks come in with guitars, sometimes we have guys drop their pants on stage with their weiners hanging out. They can stand up there and spew cursewords and nonsense for all we care. It's not so much my show, or 7B's as much as it's the singers show.

It's just very different. I'm just there to referee based on a ruleset. I don't even call singers up anymore. My entire night is spent running around looking for my next singer.

Most of my regs were very happy with that bribe. Like I said, I went out the next day and got us a brand new dual core PC. They're really stoked the karaoke lyrics don't freeze up when they're entering songs, or getting other little graphics glitches.

A lot of what i'm hearing from folks is how they wouldn't let someone do that at "their show".... 7B isn't about a KJ, or show, or any of that. Best I can describe what it is, is that it's an adult community center. Regular singers regularly give us CDG's to add to our library(one singer gave us over 100+). Other folks come in on the weekends and do real work. 4 weeks ago one of my favorite singers came in on a closed day with us, and helped install the big new beautiful HDTV projector karaoke screen.

Sure, I took the big bad bribe, but I gave it right back to our little community. You guys still want to scold me and say "Bad toqer" for doing it?

 

[kayleigh]

Joe/kayleigh: Yah, they've always charged $1 per turn at bat.

Nobodies song gets lost ever. I utilize GTA (Global Tempo Adjust) to adjust the speed of the songs if I need to squeeze an extra 3-4 in. On a 2 hour playlist if I up the tempo 7%, that can give me an addition 8.4 minutes of time to work with (not counting quickly advancing the playlist when it's a minute of instrumental at the end, like the SC version of NIN closer, that saves a bundle of time too)

Yah, it's all out in the open here. No smoke and mirrors, no secret bribe stuffed in an envelope. $1 to sing, and $1 for every person you cut in front of in front of the playlist.

Each $100 Rob gave me, I waved in front of the crowd.. Wish I had saved the video from it.

The $1 per song folks spend grants them the right to do whatever they want on stage during the duration of their song. Sometimes we have folks come in with guitars, sometimes we have guys drop their pants on stage with their wieners hanging out. They can stand up there and spew cursewords and nonsense for all we care. It's not so much my show, or 7B's as much as it's the singers show.

It's just very different. I'm just there to referee based on a ruleset. I don't even call singers up anymore. My entire night is spent running around looking for my next singer.

Most of my regs were very happy with that bribe. Like I said, I went out the next day and got us a brand new dual core PC. They're really stoked the karaoke lyrics don't freeze up when they're entering songs, or getting other little graphics glitches.

A lot of what i'm hearing from folks is how they wouldn't let someone do that at "their show".... 7B isn't about a KJ, or show, or any of that. Best I can describe what it is, is that it's an adult community center. Regular singers regularly give us CDG's to add to our library(one singer gave us over 100+). Other folks come in on the weekends and do real work. 4 weeks ago one of my favorite singers came in on a closed day with us, and helped install the big new beautiful HDTV projector karaoke screen.

Sure, I took the big bad bribe, but I gave it right back to our little community. You guys still want to scold me and say "Bad toqer" for doing it?

I'm not scolding. If the rules are known up front (now that I know what they are), I might not have joined in, they're just foreign to me (the rules, that is). That's why I asked. If the owners are cool (and the singers, regulars, et al) know the score, there shouldn't be any booing (IMHO). I asked because I've never run a pay-per-song show or a baton-run show, and I admit I know nothing about Japanese-style karaoke. I just wanted more info. Thanks!

Now, if my sister didn't live in San Diego...

 

[kayleigh]

Get back to hosting your show!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Toqer, thank you for sharing, this is an entirely different concept that I haven't ever heard of.

The owners hired you to do a job a certain way and you are working the show as they told you too. Sounds to me like in this venue it is expected and the patrons are all aware of that. Obviously the concept is working or they wouldn't have the continued business success.

 

[jokerswild]

Ok, I'm going to weight in on this topic....

As a newer host I had the oportunity to go to San Jose, CA and vist Toqer and the rest of the gang at the 7 Bamboo. I can tell you I had a ball..... here's how it went:

I could only get 2 days off from work soooooo..... after getting off work and maybe sleeping 4 hours I got on a bus at 3:45 am from Indiana to the Chicago O'hare Airport where I hopped a flight at 9:30 am to San Jose International which arrived at 11:40 am. From there I was picked up by one of Toqer's buddies known as Gambler on the Bamboo chat. We went out for lunch and bummed around San Jose for awhile and also went flying model planes until it was time to head to the 7 Bamboo.

So we are at the boo getting ready to start the show I've been up with only 4 hours of sleep since the day before. Toqer says "Ok man, the shows yours I'm going to go smoke and be a singer tonight." And that's just what he did. Everything is going fine I understood the whole $1 per song thing and since the monitary transactions are handled by the bar I'm free to do just as he has said, a boton style karaoke show, one singer after another. We had a 33 singer rotation and managed to get 66 songs sung from 9:30pm to 1:30am. Then it happened.... someone wants to sing sooner than later. I honestly wasn't prepared for that but I did know it does happen. My first reaction was "NO, you can't cut the rotation" So I went and asked the Karaoke Don (aka Toqer) how he handles this sort of thing and he said basically if singers wanna bribe their way to the top of the rotation that's fine and everyone understands and accepts it but, it will cost them $1 for every singer they bump in the rotation sooooooo if they wanna move up 10 spots it will cost them $10. Ok I'm cool with that and with those types of bribes plus actual tips we came out with about $36 dollars.

We had a great breakfast!

Ok so now the show is over and we head back to his place where I don't crash on his couch until 6am because I'm still up and stoked from the nights fun.... my speech is garbled and I sound like I've ate a box of marbles but hey I'm still awake with only 4 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours..... cool!

So I nap until 11am since my flight is scheduled for 12:30pm and the airport is just minutes away... I get up and find out that due to weather in chicago I'm delayed until 2pm... finally I get off the ground and arrive in Chicago with only minutes to get from one end of the airport all the way back to the buses.... whew I make it with 15 minutes to spare just enough time to empty my tank. I get on the bus for another 3.5 hour ride back to Indiana where I started from...

I crawl into bed and die until the next day.... whew!

Bottom line is this... Pay-to-Sing works!

I had a ball thanks Toqer!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Sure, I took the big bad bribe, but I gave it right back to our little community. You guys still want to scold me and say "Bad toqer" for doing it?

Toq, as previously posted, I think you're a good guy, not a bad one, and believe me I would tell you. My statements were of an advisory nature. I'm glad that no one had hard feelings for you there, and your post explained a lot about the atmosphere there that wasn't explained before.

However, my advisory stands. The atmosphere in which you are working is UNIQUE. NONE of what was allowed that night would have been tolerated under any circumstances in a normal karaoke setting. Please keep that in mind when and if you try branching out to other venues- nothing lasts forever.


I DO call it "my show" in the sense that I am the one that makes sure that all enjoy themselves enough to want to come back. Karaoke is not just about the equipment and it's usage, but about it's presentation. That's where I come in. People follow me to different venues ( I have six ) because they know what to expect from "my show": The fact that THEY are the stars, that I will run a fair rotation, the equipment and sound are what they should be, as are my technical skills and mic work.

Singers who miss "my show" will call me to tell me they won't be there and why- ON THEIR OWN! Some even apologize for having another engagement. My birthdays ( which I never talk about but some one's got a big mouth ) and the holidays are made amazing by singers who feel like family.

When it's time to go, if I don't do my tagline they won't let me go. They request my theme song,( a goofy jazz song called-amazingly- "Chartreuse") and instead of just leaving or saying goodnight, these people will give ME a standing ovation, when it's THEY that deserve it. This is what makes me feel great. Despite your unique venue, I would have left the money....

I think my problem was more this guy taking charge more than anything else, as I already understood the song bribery. Leave's a bed taste. Either way, if everyone's having fun, then I guess you did fine under the circumstances....