Weddings Congratulations on your enGAGment!

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MusicMeister said:
On a side note....

It's improper etiquette to wish a bride to be Congratulations. ;)

The use of that word in regards to the wedding is limited to the GROOM.
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I don't mean to be mean or anything, but where in the world does this come from? Is it one of those leftover wedding "etiquette" things where the next words out of a person's mouth should be asking how many horses did the bride's parents give to the groom's family?
 
DJ J Mac said:
I don't mean to be mean or anything, but where in the world does this come from? Is it one of those leftover wedding "etiquette" things where the next words out of a person's mouth should be asking how many horses did the bride's parents give to the groom's family?
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I was wondering the same thing but hoped that I had either misread the post or that it was a weird joke.

Please explain, MusicMeister.
 
Let's start with what etiquette is and is not. So first, a definition:

Etiquette: –noun
1. conventional requirements as to social behavior; proprieties of conduct as established in any class or community or for any occasion.
2. a prescribed or accepted code of usage in matters of ceremony, as at a court or in official or other formal observances.
3. the code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other: medical etiquette.

—Synonyms
1. Etiquette, decorum, propriety imply observance of the formal requirements governing behavior in polite society. Etiquette refers to conventional forms and usages: the rules of etiquette. Decorum suggests dignity and a sense of what is becoming or appropriate for a person of good breeding: a fine sense of decorum. Propriety (usually plural) implies established conventions of morals and good taste: She never fails to observe the proprieties.


Ok.... So let's dig in a little - Etiquette is the formal rules governing behavior in polite society. It's basic rules like how to properly announce someone into a room (using titles, etc), how to introduce one person to another, and the like. It's also why no one dances until the bride and groom dance, and a LOT more.

While some rules of etiquette are tied to historical references - like keeping the bottom button on your coat unbuttoned so that it doesn't tear out while riding a horse, or why a bride is located on the groom's left arm, or why bridesmaids all typically wear the same dress or why a bride wears white (it has nothing to do with 'virginity', despite a lot of people's ideas to the contrary) - others are not.

Some are just the proper way of doing things. The 'rules' of proper communication, etc. It's what people EXPECT in polite society, and not understanding the rules is what makes a lot of DJ's appear cheesy, makes people uncomfortable when they speak, or worse. Well, that, and their trying their best to imitate Ted Baxter... :sqrolleyes:


Anyway... to answer your question. Congratulations is for the groom.

Here's why:
–noun
1. the act of congratulating.
2. congratulations, an expression of joy in the success or good fortune of another.

–interjection
3. congratulations, (used to express joy in the success or good fortune of another): Congratulations! You have just won the lottery!

A groom, is congratulated because he has 'won' a bride. Even in the wild, brides (female 'mates') are 'won over' by something the male has 'done' or 'possesses'.

A bride on the other hand didn't 'win' the groom because traditionally HE sought HER (hence the term 'courting'). So the proper etiquette in communicating your desires for a bride, typically in the receiving line, is to tell her 'best wishes'.


So, to answer your question - it's the proper communication based on the rules of etiquette in a polite society.

As for knowing this stuff, I know a LOT about various cultures, their courting rituals, wedding traditions, etc. and I also try to study the rules of etiquette on a fairly regular basis. The result is that I have people coming up and asking me for my card, not because I play music, but because they feel 'comfortable' with my methods and how I present information to them. It's what they EXPECT - even though they might not outwardly realize it.
 
DJ Ducky said:
So, why do you congratulate a woman on expecting a baby when according to your "polite" society, she's just doing her job? :sqrolleyes:
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Uh-Oh..... now you've gone and dun it..... you've ruffled the Duck's feathers..... hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

She's short, she's Greek.... don't mess.... best advice...:sqlaugh:
 
Speaking of being Greek, now how many Highland Sheep did the J Mac have to exchange for winning me over in marriage? Also, how many goats were included with my dowry? :sqlaugh:

By the way, congratulations are in order for the J Mac. He's stuck with me for life now! yorofl:
 
I'm sorry, but talk about outdated thinking. You do realize that etiquette changes with the times? Also, have you ever thought that maybe you're insulting the bride by not congratulating her as well?

But hey, if polite society and etiquette dictate it, then I guess I'd better practice my caveman because whew...I haven't had to speak that in several thousand years. :sqwink:

Me caveman Thag...Me club caveman Ug in fight...Me now win cavewoman Ohga.
 
DJ Ducky said:
So, why do you congratulate a woman on expecting a baby when according to your "polite" society, she's just doing her job? :sqrolleyes:
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You confuse polite society with the mindset of using women as 'property' in the middle ages. Polite society has abandoned those mindsets... And as an FYI - knowing where a term comes from give relevance and understanding.

As for the whole 'pregnancy' thing... I'm not up to speed on pregnancy etiquette - My business focuses on weddings and a few other specific events - not pregnancies. ;)



If you choose not to follow it, that's up to you. But if you have an issue with 'etiquette' take it up with Ms. Manners, Emily Post and the like... I'm just relaying the information...

And last I checked, a wedding was a formal event - even if the attire was casual. Formal events have rules of decorum. I simply pointed out a common misunderstanding/unknown fact.
 
So, you'll blindly follow what someone else says is right without regard to if it's actually the right thing to do or say?

Even though it may be a misuderstanding according to Mrs. Manners, it's also very insulting. Now what is worse, to be in breach of etiquette or to insult a person?
 
You are making assumptions about me without even knowing me.

In short, I don't blindly follow anyone or anything.

Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

By UNDERSTANDING etiquette, it allows one to better APPLY it and to better understand what and how I should say.

By UNDERSTANDING it, it also allows you to COUNSEL your clients more effectively. For example, I had a bride that wanted her mother AND father to walk her down the aisle and give her away. She was concerned about how it would come off and be a breach of etiquette because it was out of the ordinary. I explained to her that her desire was the tradition and proper etiquette at Jewish weddings. Her reply? I'm not Jewish. My reply? You misunderstand. What I'm trying to tell you is that there are cultures that do exactly what you want to do, and why. It's actually COMMONPLACE to do what you want. If you feel that's appropriate for you then we should do it. - She then understood, had BOTH her mother and father walk her down the aisle and give her away and she was happy.

Had I not known about the Jewish traditions I could have taken the route of telling her 'just do it' it's your wedding. But I gave her logical reasoning to do what she wanted and etiquette to back it up - along with the reasons. She was now not just doing it - but she was comfortable with doing it as well.

I work very hard to be a gentleman. That means speaking in a manner that is designed to lift people up - not to insult them. It means knowing and understanding the 'rules' or 'etiquette' so you don't insult or offend. It means knowing more than which fork to use, it means knowing what to say, and when to say it. It means knowing how to take a compliment, and how to give one. You presume that I would blindly follow - when in fact, it couldn't be further from the truth.


And as for the whole pregnancy thing... I'm about to break with my being gentlemanly... :sqerr:

They're not congratulating her - they're congratulating the SPERM THAT WON THE RACE. :eek:

There... I went there.... happy now? :p ;)

Now get back to making babies and cleaning the kitchen....


Note: The ABOVE IS A JOKE.

(Just to be crystal clear - if you think that etiquette is counter productive to women's rights, good manners, and the like - you couldn't be further from the truth.)


Just to clear one last thing up: I do formal events. Weddings are a formal event. Even if you are in shorts, T-shirt, and barefoot, a wedding is a FORMAL event. Invitations are sent which conform to ETIQUETTE. RSVP's are received that follow ETIQUETTE. People are seated in an order based on ETIQUETTE. People are introduced into a room following ETIQUETTE. Certain events take place that follow ETIQUETTE.

Without ETIQUETTE at a wedding you would have anarchy.

And if telling a bride 'best wishes' makes you angry I do NOT recommend that you look up wedding traditions in the Netherlands (where the FATHER OF THE GROOM slept with the bride first to insure her virginity) and many other traditions.

But knowing history and the significance isn't the same as using it as justification for demeaning and insulting people. It should instead be used to 'lift up' and provide 'significance' internally....

That's what a proper Master of Ceremonies does.
 
DJ Ducky said:
Note the title of this section: "Congratulations! You're Engaged!" If you read on, you'll note that this article is intended for either the bride-to-be or the groom-to-be, not just the groom-to-be.

http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/tips/post_engagement.htm
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This from the same person who had this to say in her book:

"Sometimes a bandleader or DJ will also offer to serve as master of ceremonies. Quite frankly, there is no real reason to have a master of ceremonies at a wedding reception. A good bandleader or DJ knows how to keep things moving without constantly announcing the next song or offering a running banter over the microphone. The only time the bandleader or DJ needs to speak to guests at all is to ask for their silence to allow an officiant to say grace, for example, or a best man to propose his toast. You certainly don't need to be hailed over the microphone as you enter the reception, nor do you need anyone telling jokes that are amplified. And an announcement that a flambee dessert has just come out of the oven is over the top."


In all honesty, spoken like a person that has no idea what a Master of Ceremonies does, what their role is, or anything else.... (meaning Peggy Post, not you...)

And to be honest, I doubt that Peggy Post reviewed that website page... ;)


And it's 'Best wishes for your marriage' to the bride. 'Congratulations on your marriage.' to the groom.

Congratulations on your ENGAGEMENT could be taken either way... :p
 
MusicMeister said:
This from the same person who had this to say in her book:

"Sometimes a bandleader or DJ will also offer to serve as master of ceremonies. Quite frankly, there is no real reason to have a master of ceremonies at a wedding reception. A good bandleader or DJ knows how to keep things moving without constantly announcing the next song or offering a running banter over the microphone. The only time the bandleader or DJ needs to speak to guests at all is to ask for their silence to allow an officiant to say grace, for example, or a best man to propose his toast. You certainly don't need to be hailed over the microphone as you enter the reception, nor do you need anyone telling jokes that are amplified. And an announcement that a flambee dessert has just come out of the oven is over the top."
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Well, by all technical means, she's correct! None of that is necessary. However, such events as the grand entrance and the forced toasts have become commonplace. A good DJ really does know how to keep things moving without talking on the microphone throughout the entire reception.
 
Ahhh.... spoken like a true DJ....

I must fundamentally disagree. A MASTER of CEREMONIES is a fundamental success in the night for ANY formal event. If you read it completely through - she claims that you don't need to be 'hailed' as you enter the reception - meaning you should just 'walk in' to... NOTHING. No announcement or anything.

The role of the Master of Ceremonies is very clear - but most people have no idea what that means - including most DJ's who claim to do exactly that. Instead of finding out and fulfilling the role as it should be done, they opt instead to imitate announcers, screaming 'Sunday, Sunday, Sunday' as the bride and groom's names in their best Ted Baxter imitation. BTW, announcers are NOT Masters of Ceremonies. They're two VERY different roles and responsibilities. Again, a failing of most DJ's to understand the roles they claim to fill in the course of the night.

There was a time when people understood the roles of a Master of Ceremonies, and took that role very seriously. It was a cherished position placed upon a close family member or trusted friend. It still is in the UK, Australia, Canada, and a number of other countries. I've seen a swing back to this in the US in recent years as more and more DJ's attempt to be a Master of Ceremonies and fail miserably. Most DJ's would do a 1000% (yes, 1000%) better work if they would just give up the microphone to someone else who knew what they were doing. To combat this, brides are seeking out better and more professional Masters of Ceremonies or they're opting to have a family member or friend take over that role.


But let's talk about REAL WORLD - From my wedding this past Saturday, a woman came up to me and asked for a card. She said that her daughter was getting married in April and she just HAD to have our card. What did she say? "It's refreshing to see a DJ who actually interacts throughout the event and let's people know what's going on." In other words - thank you for being a Master of Ceremonies. And being a Master of Ceremonies also means knowing when to shut the hell up - yet another problem many DJ's struggle with. When we did the tribute to the groom's mother who had passed away when he was 11, I introduced it, explained the significance, asked the wedding guests to join the bride and groom, and played the song. I then SHUT THE HELL UP. Nothing I could say or do could help that moment be any more special. But I've spent a LOT of time learning to be an effective Master of Ceremonies.

I can go on and on about this. But I've seen weddings both with and without a trained Master of Ceremonies. There is no comparison between the two.


As for Peggy Post - she shows a complete lack of knowledge regarding food as well since a 'flambeed' dessert would be covered in liquor and set afire. While it coming out of the oven isn't important - it coming into the room IS important. Why? When a flambeed dessert is brought into a room it draws an awfully lot of attention since the things is on FIRE!
 
I refuse to jump into the middle of this...

it's too dangerous....

and far too much fun to sit back and watch it.
 
I'm not one to get involved in a "heated or open-ended" conversation. Nevertheless, someone's ego is getting the best of him. LOL
 
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