Bottom feeders

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The term "bottom feeder" once described a DJ or company that couldn't say no. No matter how low the budget, they can't say no. Later it's been used to describe pretty much anyone who doesn't fit some imaginary mold that's often sold as "the way".

I was called a bottom dweller by the "experts" years ago because I worked with RS gear. Maybe I should have simply lied about it like most of the rest. Telling the truth made me a bottom feeder, lol. ;)

rickryan.com said:
It's easy. You do something that makes someone else jealous of you.

I personally find the complainers are usually the guys who have, in the past, gotten $1,000 or better to stand over in the corner with a laptop and a couple of speakers, pressing buttons for 2-3 hours. They seem to be the ones who now gripe to high heaven about only making $500-$600 for the same thing now.
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And they're the first to blame the consequences of their own misguided choices on others. Yup, this is a pretty accurate description. :D
 
Anyone thats associated with A Solid Gold Sound is a Bottom Feeder
 
Fred Wright said:
The term "bottom feeder" once described a DJ or company that couldn't say no. No matter how low the budget, they can't say no. Later it's been used to describe pretty much anyone who doesn't fit some imaginary mold that's often sold as "the way".

I was called a bottom dweller by the "experts" years ago because I worked with RS gear. Maybe I should have simply lied about it like most of the rest. Telling the truth made me a bottom feeder, lol. ;)


And they're the first to blame the consequences of their own misguided choices on others. Yup, this is a pretty accurate description. :D
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Thanks Fred, good description. Coming from a sideman/musician background, there's obviously plenty of back-biting that goes on but you can generally refer people without finding out they were bad-mouthing you while you were referring them. Not so, at least in my DJ world. This past year I found myself passing tons of leads on to my local network (mostly ADJA) but have since stopped, due to their bad-mouthing. It's a real shame too. The very group of guys who claim to be "the real pros" are the ones who demonstrate the exact opposite behavior.
 
While nobody can accurately, or even rightly try to place a $-figure or threshold to determine bottom-feeder status, the line is still very much there and has to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis to see if it applies to any given provider at any given time.

One is a bottom-feeder if:

1) They don't run an above-board business in regards to all matters of legal (state, local, federal, tax, copyright/library compliance, etc.) compliance.

<AND>

2) Because they have no costs associated with this venture (we won't even call it a "business"), they are able and even worse - WILLING to provide services at a rate that would be/is impossible for an actual above-board and compliant provider to match.

<OR>

1) They DO run an above-board business in regards to all matters of legal (state, local, federal, tax, copyright/library compliance, etc.) compliance.

<AND>

2) Though they DO run an above-board business as per the above, they don't charge accordingly to cover those costs from their dj income and thus charge a rate that would be/is impossible for an actual above-board and compliant provider to match.
____________________________

So... While my rates are median for my market, I am legitimately structured and above-board with legal/business compliance criteria, but am able to charge a little less because of less overhead, less advertising expenses, whatever the case may be. As I am a case of a legitimate business entity, I am proving that such an entity CAN perform and remain in business at a lower rate, and am thus not a bottom-feeder. (convenient how that works, eh?) :)

Problem with the term is that the worthers have adopted it to categorize anyone who doesn't agree with their worther sentiments and who doesn't likewise overestimate their importance, abilities, talents, offerings, etc and hence doesn't charge accordingly.

Let's take ego out of the equation and base the criteria on something tangible like the above. A bottom-feeder is simply one who charges rates that are impossible for a legitimate business entity or above-board entity to match or beat. Where that line lies will obviously vary from market to market.
 
Being a "Bottom Feeder" has nothing to do with what you charge. If you have crap equipment, an illegal music library, have know idea on how to mix or even what key and BPM are, have no insurance, let your bootlegged software auto dj everything, and come to a gig looking as unprofessional as you are....Then you are a bottom feeder.
 
bestdjinfl said:
Being a "Bottom Feeder" has nothing to do with what you charge. If you have crap equipment, an illegal music library, have know idea on how to mix or even what key and BPM are, have no insurance, let your bootlegged software auto dj everything, and come to a gig looking as unprofessional as you are....Then you are a bottom feeder.
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Not necessarily. I started out with a legal library... but cheap equipment because thats what I could afford.... but I charged in accordance with my abilities and business costs at the time. That didn't make me a bottom-feeder. I was an above-board legal business who was starting off with lower rates to gain experience and establish a base on my market.

You can do a good job and be worth a higher value with low-to-mid-priced equipment, and you can be a crap dj with expensive gear.

Those aren't the criteria.

The criteria are in regards to the INTENT and overall pricing ethics and practices of the dj in question, plain and simple. That those who are bottom-feeders may well *tend* to have illegal music and crap gear may be the case, but this is a generalization, and is not in and of itself criteria for it.
 
I have a term I've started using which I feel is better and helps to differentiate the various levels of DJ's and I'll use a wedding as the example. Please note that NONE of these is based on PRICE, EQUIPMENT, or anything you HAVE. It's about your PERFORMANCE and RESULTS.

This new term I prefer to use is:
LCD. As in Lowest Common Denominator.

These DJ's do the bare minimum. They show up in business casual attire (at a minimum), play the songs the clients requests for their 'special dances', do a few basic announcements, and play dance music. In other words, they do the bare minimum required to avoid a client asking for a refund. These are generally accepted bare minimums of performance standards. They are not hard to meet.

Here's the difference. This doesn't have to be a bad term. It's the 'meets expectations' of the DJ world. As a bell curve goes, about 60% of the DJ companies in the country fall into this. These are the 'market average' DJ's who don't train. Don't try to get better, and just want the money for showing up and doing the bare minimum.


Here's another new term:
Cookie Cutter DJ.

No matter who they are, or where the event is held, you always do the same thing. You always play the same Kenny G CD for dinner. You always say the same tired jokes at the same points during the night. Most of the time the DJ will use terms like 'Bride and Groom' and 'Happy Couple' the ENTIRE night instead of their names. The minute they're in the room the DJ forgets their names <-- How to tell they're cookie cutter.

These DJ's are very good provided you only see them once. They have their 'performance' down to a science. But they respond poorly to doing anything different.

Note that some venues INSIST on the cookie cutter approach so they know what to expect.


And of course the term we've all been looking for:
Bottom Feeder

Bottom Feeders will work for ANY price for ANY event ANY where. They have no thought, no business acumen, or sense most of the time. In short, they will lower their price as low as they have to go in order to get the work. They fail to understand that if you are priced too low you will LOSE work. They refuse to learn to sell, and assume that any objection to their services is related to price so they will go lower. They are the DJ company that while at a bridal show, sees another company's sign that is priced lower and they will write with market on a piece of paper and tape it over their old price so they're the lowest priced option.

They don't care about their clients. They don't care about anything other than a full calendar no matter the price. They'll do a 12 hour long wedding with ceremony for $50 if they get it instead of someone else. They don't sell value to their clients, they sell a low price.

How to you find a bottom feeder? In most cases they don't have a business license. They don't have liability insurance. They don't have a dba. They ask for checks to be made out to them instead of the company because they don't have a business checking account. They may or may not even show up. They'll double book and send someone else instead to cover it.


A quick way to tell if they're a bottom feeder is that their price is LOWER than the equipment rental for the same equipment from a rental company. Yes, they could quit DJ'ing and rent the equipment for MORE money. In short, they bring a NEGATIVE value to the equipment they 'rent' based on their pricing structure.


Note that none of these is really associated with the equipment they use or their 'attire' as long as it's business casual or better (company polo shirt and khaki's is the bare minimum in attire for a semi-formal event - even if working). While it's true that bottom feeders will often use 'cheap' or 'inexpensive' equipment because they can't afford anything else, they 'could' be using a $1500 mixer with a $10,000 PA system because they could be funding their 'djing' with a day job or two.


In the end, I could care less where you fall into any of these categories, or if you fall into any of them. I don't judge my success by looking at others. I look for the possibilities, and work very hard to make my clients very, very happy with my services. Above and beyond is SOP for me.




As for the term bottom feeder and the 'worthers' as was mentioned earlier - the term was used on the DJA radio podcasts ('We eat bottom feeders for lunch!'). There was a joke behind their using that term (sarcasm I heard by one person) which has long since been forgotten by the people who still use it as a means to talk negatively about them.

The problem with most people and the worth movement is that they don't understand that it's not about '$1200'. It's about a 3 stepped approach to making a living as a mobile DJ that requires WORK. Most people don't want to WORK. They want easy money.

The first step was realizing what you're worth. This is about realizing what we do, and the value associated with that.

The second is being what you're worth. This is about continuing education and surpassing client expectations each and every time.

The third was about getting what you're worth. This was the 'sales and marketing' portion of the discussion.

This was meant as a means to an end through opening up people's eyes to the possibility of having a successful DJ business that they could have as a full time venture. It was NEVER meant as a way to put people down, chastise anyone, etc. If you have ever met Mark and Rebecca Ferrell you'll realize they WANT you to succeed. They WANT you to support your family as a full time dj and surpass your wildest dreams. In short, they are two of the kindest, most generous people I've ever met in my life. Unfortunately, some of the people used the worth message to chastise others who didn't meet the 'mythical $1200 figure' and the like. BTW, if you listen to the CD's (or tapes) you'll hear a DJ at the very beginning say he didn't get to $1200 but he's charging more now because he realized what he was worth.
 
Bottom Feeder???? Isn't that the same as rimming? Kinda kinky eh? :sqlaugh::rofl::sqlaugh:
 
MusicMeister said:
Here's another new term:
Cookie Cutter DJ.

No matter who they are, or where the event is held, you always do the same thing. You always play the same Kenny G CD for dinner. You always say the same tired jokes at the same points during the night. Most of the time the DJ will use terms like 'Bride and Groom' and 'Happy Couple' the ENTIRE night instead of their names. The minute they're in the room the DJ forgets their names <-- How to tell they're cookie cutter.

These DJ's are very good provided you only see them once. They have their 'performance' down to a science. But they respond poorly to doing anything different.

Note that some venues INSIST on the cookie cutter approach so they know what to expect.
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I find this one really interesting.....

If you have seen my show before you would notice similaraties from week to week for example the garter and boquet are very similar every time....and I'm very good at it. I also use the same few songs off the start most of the time because it jump starts the floor.

Now I do personalize alot of stuff, do the research, and give them exactly what they ask for, but if you have seen me there are alot of points where you can guess what happens next. I certinaly don't spend the night calling them the happy couple or Bride and Groom.

I also have a referral rate of about 85%....

Does this make me cookie cutter or just good at knowing what a client wants
 
In my opinion a "bottom feeder" is an individual who undercuts rates drastically while selling the idea he has the best equipment available (Audio & Lighting) as well as a vast music collection. But when the event time comes up he shows up with his home stereo, Home Depot colored flood lamps, lot's of Duck Tape and a lousy sounding (P2P) music collection. End result is a bad event that was supposed to be a memorable occasion.

While weddings are supposed to be unique and new ideas should by tried out, things cannot change drastically every week so you're bound to have some repetition I would not call that a bottom feeder.

A lot of people started with sub par equipment, but they have evolved and replaced stuff to provide a better service. A "bottom feeder" does not give a rat's ass with what he shows up with he only wants the $100.00 and all the booze he can get.

In today's economy of course pricing has had to be cut at some point however I don't think you guys will do an event for $50.00 (Unless it's a charity, etc. )
 
Jeff Romard said:
I find this one really interesting.....

If you have seen my show before you would notice similaraties from week to week for example the garter and boquet are very similar every time....and I'm very good at it. I also use the same few songs off the start most of the time because it jump starts the floor.

Now I do personalize alot of stuff, do the research, and give them exactly what they ask for, but if you have seen me there are alot of points where you can guess what happens next. I certinaly don't spend the night calling them the happy couple or Bride and Groom.

I also have a referral rate of about 85%....

Does this make me cookie cutter or just good at knowing what a client wants
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Jeff,
Based on Music Meister's post to which you responded, I don't think that was meant for you. Its seems that The Cookie Cutter thing is becoming more prevalent mainly in the eyes of the Venue. Case in point, DJ shows up at the venue to perform and he is shown an area with a 6' table. In most cases, most DJs don't even take the time to go out and visit the venue and ask for what space they need. Its "handed" to them when they arrive.
Refusing to tag along and follow the masses is what separates one from another.
Getting proactive in all stages of a Wedding or Gig will ensure one's own individuality as a DJ. Waiting to be told where to setup, what songs to play, what to be said seems to me more like being herded in like sheep.
Sadly more and more DJs are falling into this chasm.
 
Jeff Romard said:
I find this one really interesting.....

If you have seen my show before you would notice similaraties from week to week for example the garter and boquet are very similar every time....and I'm very good at it. I also use the same few songs off the start most of the time because it jump starts the floor.

Now I do personalize alot of stuff, do the research, and give them exactly what they ask for, but if you have seen me there are alot of points where you can guess what happens next. I certinaly don't spend the night calling them the happy couple or Bride and Groom.

I also have a referral rate of about 85%....

Does this make me cookie cutter or just good at knowing what a client wants
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I try to give short descriptions in hopes that they make sense. But sometimes I might have to go into detail. Here's the long version: ;)

Cookie cutter is for a DJ that is incapable of doing anything different - but I find the term applies to some venues more so than DJ's. I was at one venue that insisted that things happen in a certain order, despite their having hired the photographer for a short period of time. The venues 'time line' didn't take that into account. Despite sending the time line to all the vendors in advance for input the venue ignored it, and insisted on theirs instead. It meant that the couple didn't get some of the pictures they wanted because of the changes.

From a DJ's point of view:
In other words, if you insist upon doing the grand entrance into the first dance every single time regardless of what else is going on.

If you insist on always doing the toasts during dinner.

If you insist on always doing XYZ in exactly that order.

If you ALWAYS use the exact same 'routines'.

It's a mentality of 'because this is how we've always done it' without concern for the clients wishes, what works best for their event, or any other vendor's needs.

It's a 'But I ALWAYS do this routine' when asked why you're doing something.

It's a mindset of 'I don't care want the client wants' and generalities.

Like I said, the sure fire way of knowing if you're dealing with cookie cutter mentality is whether the DJ took the time to learn the bride and grooms names. Do you hear, 'We'll now watch the happy couple cut the cake!' or 'The bride will dance with her dad' or 'The groom will now share a dance with his mother'. What happened to these people's names? You just introduced them into the room. Do you not care enough about these people to even learn their names?



Because you have 'go to' items doesn't make you a 'cookie cutter' DJ. It's a lacksidaisical attitude that drives this. A 'one size fits all' assurance. A 'the last 100 weddings I did loved this routine'. It's a 'I've been doing this routine since 1990 and they STILL EAT IT UP!'. It's using the same Kenny G CD for dinner music that you did in 1989.


But if you notice that you are repeating a lot, I only recommend you examine WHY you repeat. Is it comfort? or are the clients similar? Are you trying to grow, expand and be more creative? Are you really taking the clients wants and needs into consideration or are you just going through the motions because it seems to work? In the case of the bouquet and garter, look for creative ways to 'spice it up' or put a 'twist' on things. The smallest of changes can make for some of the best moments.

If nothing else, video tape your weddings and review. If you can't tell the weddings apart you may be on a slippery slope. The nice thing about cookie cutter DJ's is that if they realize it and they really care about what they do and their clients - they work very hard to change their behaviors in a very short period of time. The fact you had to ask yourself that is insight and shows a dedication to your craft. Shoot video, watch it, and review. Ask those you know and trust to review the video and provide feedback as well. Learn from it and grow.


And I want to point something out - if you 'sell' a certain type of show - for example there is a DJ that does blue humor at weddings, is known for it, and actually sells his 'routine' as a part of what he is and does. He's a cookie cutter DJ, but it doesn't matter. He's selling that routine to his clients. Cookie cutter isn't always a 'bad' thing - it's just a lack of personal growth and/or personalization for the client.


I hope this makes sense. You see, the terms I used, can be good or bad - it all depends on the person. Being open minded enough to accept that some people WANT an LCD DJ because it represents the bare minimum at a minimal price or WANT a Cookie Cutter DJ because he represents a 'routine' that they want. I choose not to operate that way, but it doesn't mean they are 'right or wrong'.

The only thing two things I believe applies to ALL DJ's is that they should learn their client's names (and use them) and care enough about them to give them your best show possible. They are paying you good money and you should care enough about being hired that you should take the time to learn their names and how to pronounce them correctly. You should take pride in your work.
 
Meister:

I was playing Devils Advocate there. I will admit that most of my shows have a similarity but I can change quite easy and certinaly don't depend on one routine.

As I was reading your first post I got to thinking about other performers. I've seen Alice Cooper several times over a 20 year period. There was very little difference between the shows. Same with the Stones, Steve Earle, Cheap Trick and several others. Sometimes I think we may put too much emphasis on being different.

I tape several shows a year. Not just weddings but corporates, birthday parties etc. to review what I do. I also try to attend at least one event with each of my DJs a year to watch what they do and I try to get them out for one with me to review me.
 
Thunder said:
To answer your question there isn't any such thing as a bottom feeder, there are only those who are successful in the business and those who are not!

Those who are not claim that everyone else is a bottom feeder!:sqwink:
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And there are those, so insecure as it relates to their business, they had to coin this term for anyone who doesn't do it the way they do....:sqcool:
 
Everyone assumes that cookie cutter isn't 'good' or that it's 'bad'.

Just like the DJ that uses blue humor in his 'routines' - musical groups have an image they sell. They have a certain type of show they do. They're playing to a huge audience, and while much of the show remains the same, they do normally mention the city they're playing in (even if they have to write it on their arm ;) ). If Alice Cooper came out and did a different kind of show the clients would be upset because it's what he sells.

In short, Cookie Cutter is a conceptual thing.

It's bad when it's a result of complacency and not caring. It's good when it's what you sell.


As for the client's not knowing - it depends. If a large portion of your clients are referral, and you do the exact same routines for every wedding, then the second wedding will give you away. For example, do you use the exact same 'upper hand' comment during the cake cutting at every wedding? How about expanding your repetoire? Learn, think, grow. Find other humor and use it.



I fail to understand what gets everyone so riled up about these terms. Everyone is so afraid of being 'labeled' they opt to change the terms, meanings, and everything else. These are just concepts and mechanisms to discuss them. I'm called 'expensive'. Actually, I'm called a lot of things, including some things I wouldn't repeat in public by other DJ companies in town. I don't care what other DJ's think of me, my performance, or anything else as long as my CLIENTS are happy with the value I provide.


If you want a definition for a bottom feeder that I really think everyone can agree to, I'll give you one (even though that term has been thrown around to the point that no matter what definition is given people will still use it in stupid ways). If a DJ company routinely charges less for their service than what it costs to rent the equipment, they're a bottom feeder. Period. No if's. No and's. No but's. There's a definition for you. Its' quantifiable, it's easy to see where the marker lies, and it's easy to know if you fall into that category.

And if you have trouble selling over bottom feeders, YOU have the problem, not them. When a company prices themselves as a negative value on an equipment rental and you can't sell your services as being worth more then something is seriously wrong.


What I find strange is that no one had a complaint with LCD, and only with cookie cutter.
 
Ruben Mora said:
Craigslist ad - Pro DJ Services- New Year's House Party $225.00 - 4 hours

We are not a CHEAP or amateur DJ or Cake business!! I'm very professional and responsible. I'm a professional IT Manager for a fortune 500 company and do this as a hobby and as a way to work together with my wife.

I can say he's cheap! Very cheap!
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Wait...no comments on "amateur DJ or Cake business"...really?
 
WaydeWest said:
Wait...no comments on "amateur DJ or Cake business"...really?
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I must have missed that one. ;)

But without having seen him or knowing his background, I don't know if he's an amateur or not. And since he's a DJ, unless his wife is in the 'cake business' he's not a cake business either.

It wouldn't be any different than me saying...

We are not a CHEAP or amateur DJ or professional model or nudist or go go dance or pipefitter or plumber or sheetrock hanger or janitor or state trooper or porn star or preacher or engineer or electrician!


But he does say he's a hobbyist. Though he tries to muddy the waters with his 'very professional' comment though.
 
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