I have a morals question

[knardini]

Kris

Hank:

No, I wouldn't think about legal issues but you damn well better believe I'm deeply concerned with any medical & health problems this person has that I don't want. Unless I'm properly trained and have the same proper protective stuff that a "real health care" pro has, I 'll leave it to you John Wayne types who could care less about your own families either.

How about any bodily fluid-transmitted STDs? How about an active virus? HIV? You're giving CPR and the person coughs in your face. Pukes on your hands. Bleeds on your fingers. Spits in your eye (drunks love to spit...and puke).

Since the incident example used above, which happened last August, my unprotected hands had ten minutes of direct contact with that person's bleeding head. I've had my blood tested even though a subsequent follow-up call to this person assured me there was no issues. Would you believe an alcoholic? Guess I have to, eh? at least for a couple more years.

Be smart, not emotional.

Cap, taking a bit of a leap with the whole "could care less about your own family" comment don't you think? Just because you can't visualize jumping in and helping doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. People are different, with different life experiences. I spent 2 years as an EMT out of college doing this stuff all the time. You don't always get to bag someone or use the CPR guard face mask, you do what you gotta do. There are definelty risks (HIV, viruses, a face full of puke) so I wouldn't recommend going in unprotected as an EMT who does this for a living, but as a DJ how often is this scenrio going to happen....once maybe twice in a lifetime? The chances of encountering a blood puking, HIV positive, bird flu lady doing the macarena before going down is pretty slim :sqerr:

But your right, it takes all sorts

 

[Guest]

I suggest that all the "Scooby Doo and Shaggy" types stuff a pair of rubber gloves in their pockets next to the cell phone, pen and paper.

That's why I always have gloves close by.

Ruby, ruby, rooooooooooooo! I keep them in the wire box. There's also a few pairs in a baggy in the rigs equipmnet drawer. Finally, there's a few boxes in various places in each vehicle.

Never leave home without them.

 

[Ron Auger]

Tom: How long have you been a paramedic?

 

[SoftJock Rick]

Do you go over to offer assistance, or do you stay right where you are due to the lawsuit possiblities?

Getting back to the original question, and hopefully avoiding the rhetoric...


Lawsuits I do not care about. Would I offer assistance?

Only if there were no one else either willing, or able to do so.


I'm a retired boat captain, ex-military, yada, yada, and have a bit of experience, but am certainly not the best person to handle medical emergencies at this stage of my life. I would first try to find someone who is quickly.

If it comes to Hell or high water, I would attempt to do my best to help another human, and wouldn't worry about lawsuits.

I can always get more money later -- somebody may not get another family member later...

 

[DJ SVO]

Cap is not paranoid and unfortunately we live in a lawsuit happy society. If you are an EMT and you are in the right place at the right time go for it, if you're not make announcements, try to give the injured party space by telling the guests through your PA system and call 911 ASAP. Cap's advice is right on and keeping a detailed report which you should make a copy and forward to you're insurance company.

As a Dr. I have a responsibility to render aid and assess the situation and decide what to do, but having a medical degree and a license to practice does not exclude me from being sued, so that's what's on the minds of everybody in the medical field.

One has to remember that trying to be a good Samaritan can come back and haunt you for the rest of your life. If you don't know what you're doing I recommend staying away because you can cause more damage than what has been done already.

 

[Guest]

Tom: How long have you been a paramedic?

My wife's been in it longer than I have. When she first moved to Harford County she became active with the volunteer fire department and became an EMT. She was in class during the evenings and working full time as a nurses assistant during the day but she managed to get that certification and then she started going on runs. After about a year she got into the the paramedic training and that took over a year to complete. She had just gotten her license when me met back in January of 94.

She and I met and got married in 94. We moved to Harford County in 96 and I basically went her route. All-in-all it took me close to five years of training and experience to get to the point of being confident enough to sit for the paramedic license exam. I passed in 2001.

So, I've been a licensed paramedic since 2001 and my wife has been a licensed paramedic since 1994.

The interesting thing is that now days you can take a 131 hour course and pass the EMT exam to become a licensed EMT and then take a 1,000 hour paramedic course and pass the paramedic exam to become a licensed paramedic. When my wife and I were in training, you had to have at least three months experience in the field before you could even think about taking the next course.

In January of 2005 we were both responding to a call and got t-boned by an 18 wheeler. The ambulance we were in (I was driving) got pretty mangled but we were very fortunate to not have a scratch. It had been a long day for the both of us to begin with and we probably should not have taken the run; we had both worked an event together. We did an assesment of our lives at that time and decided that we needed to let others go out on the runs. We've been on the admin and training side ever since. We're both pretty voracious fund raisers.

We both take the occasional run as we are both still qualified.

 

[Cap Capello]

Kris & Hank: It does take all types.

As was exemplified in my first response and subsequent explanation, if either of you did read it in it's entirety, the August 2007 emergency (a dozens like it before that) was handled decisively and without the personal regard you both have chosen to accuse me of lacking. I could get really sarcastic at this moment but I'll be smart, not emotional.

To say it may only happen once or twice in a career is pure conjecture and sheer nonsense yet go ahead and bank your future on that if it feels safe. I hope for your sake that's correct.

Be smart, not emotional. How many other ways are there to say that?

 

[So Cal Hugh]

Had something similar happen just last December at a company party. It was only a few minutes before I had to close down anyway. The lady was older and went down hard on her hip. She never got up. I saw the whole thing happen. I lowered the volume and asked for the coordinator to come up, over the mic, and for the lights to be brought up. After two songs at low volume I cut the music and wished everyone a good night - end of party.

I felt that the hired leadership was the right path to follow in order to:
1 - make sure I had no liability in it, and;
2 - make sure the injured person was attended to properly.

Parameds came and she was taken to the hospital. It all ended up ok.

 

[knardini]

Cap, taking a bit of a leap with the whole "could care less about your own family" comment don't you think? Just because you can't visualize jumping in and helping doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. People are different, with different life experiences. I spent 2 years as an EMT out of college doing this stuff all the time. You don't always get to bag someone or use the CPR guard face mask, you do what you gotta do. There are definelty risks (HIV, viruses, a face full of puke) so I wouldn't recommend going in unprotected as an EMT who does this for a living, but as a DJ how often is this scenrio going to happen....once maybe twice in a lifetime? The chances of encountering a blood puking, HIV positive, bird flu lady doing the macarena before going down is pretty slim :sqerr:

But your right, it takes all sorts

Cap, I don't see anything in this post "accusing you of anything"??????
I just said I would handle it differently based on my life experiences and others may too. I did think your family comment was a tad strange from a smart not emotinal response - that was all I was saying.

 

[SoftJock Rick]

On a lighter note, if I may...


I was sittin' here picturing this occuring, and the vastly different responses.


Scenario 1 - Cap:

Cap: Ladies and Gentleman, clear the floor. <Comes out with clipboard in hand.>

Cap: Ma'am, could I have your name, age, DL # and SS# for my report? Also, have you been drinking, and if so, how many drinks.

Bystander: She's bleeding to death -- help her!

Cap: You shut up, she won't bleed to death until I tell her too (and my report is complete). <Opens cell phone, and calls insurance agent.>


Scenario 2 - Kris:

Kris: Everybody down -- I have a gun!


Scenario 3 - Tom:

Tom: Ma'am, what religion are you?


Scenario 4 - Davy:

Davy: Quick, somebody pull her skirt up!


Scenario 5 - Cam:

Cam: Will somebody get the old bag off the floor -- I'm in the middle of a hot set here!

 

[Ron Auger]

We all act to what we believe is right. What else can you do?

My wife and I were flying home from Vegas this year after the conference on a Jet Blue red eye back to Boston. About 2 hours into the flight the attendant called over the intercom asking for anyone with medical training. Of course my wife the medic and me the EMT were the only two on board. We were just 2 hours into the flight with about 2 1/2 left to go. This elderly gentleman was having a cardiac emergency. So what were we to do? We took care of him for the rest of his flight. Luckily we arrived in Logan without incident. But, we were prepared to do what was necessary for the well being of the man.

Jet Blue carries an entire medical drug, IV, and defib kits on their planes for the specific reason of hopefully having trained people flying who can and will help. While the pilot was planning emergency landings all along the route he kept in constant communication with my wife. Just one word from her and everyone's was join us in a new destination city. Again and thankfully we made it home, we got this gentleman home to his family.

I've talked to this man once on the phone since then and his granddaughter who is caring for him sent us a nice thank you note and a donation to my department.

The point I'm trying to make is that you do what you think is right. Do what you think you can live with. That's what I do and will continue to do. I hope that if need be someone would do the same for my family should they ever need help.

Just be careful.

 

[Cap Capello]

Kris: In rereading your post, the word "you" left me with the impression it was a you as in me (Cap) and not the you as in a generic person. My apologies to you for the misread.

Rick: LMAO from the gut.

Yeah, that pretty well sums me up. An old Radar O'Reilly.

 

[Alphabet]

Hmmm.....

If I ever am working my medic job & I get a call to a wedding reception & the DJ asks me my name?

I'll be lookin' for ya Cap! :sqerr:


I'm sure I'll be polite and professional, but he doesn't need to know that. Yes, I'm sure that some EMTs/medics would be like, "What are you, writing a book? Well, leave that out & make a mystery!"


Good advice,

As previously stated:

Do no harm & do not act in a manner higher than you are trained.

Yes, as Ron said earlier & it has been BIG NEWS all week around here, the lay public is going to be taught that compression-only CPR is better than previously thought. No worries for the puking, unresponsive pt - Not gonna put your mouth down there? No problem. Doing chest compressions - at least 100/minute will be the best thing for the pt until an AED/EMS arrives.

 

[Ron Auger]

Yes, I'm sure that some EMTs/medics would be like, "What are you, writing a book? Well, leave that out & make a mystery!"

Now Joe, you know I wouldn't be that nice!

Good advice,

As previously stated:

Do no harm & do not act in a manner higher than you are trained.

As a good Samaritan you are protected. As Joe has stated act only to your ability.

Yes, as Ron said earlier & it has been BIG NEWS all week around here, the lay public is going to be taught that compression-only CPR is better than previously thought.

I have been teaching this now for the past two weeks. It's amazing how people have been responding to it. I just taught a group of physicians at Umass Medical Center. When I asked them if they would perform mouth to mouth on a stranger I got the dirtiest looks. But when I told them that they only need do effective chest compressions a smile came across their face.

No worries for the puking, unresponsive pt - Not gonna put your mouth down there? No problem.

Joe, that sound like a date you had in High School.

Doing chest compressions - at least 100/minute will be the best thing for the pt until an AED/EMS arrives.

You are correct my little Polish one. The terminology the AHA uses is hard and fast (insert sexual one liners here). If you wish to know how fast that is, this should be easy for you DJ's. Play "Stayin Alive" (pun intended) and do your compression on every down beat. That song is at 100 compressions a minute.

Now get out there and learn CPR. Act fast and quickly. You just might save the live of someone you love.

 

[nextgen1]

On my end I would probably try and help out as much as I could. I spent 7 years and an EMT and knowing me its in my nature. To many people with good intentions can hurt or kill a person without out meaning to. That is why they have the good samaritan law to protect the many good meaning people from sue happy folks. In a situation like that a patient is best left unmoved but insuring A.B.C airway, breathing, circulation and stopping blood loss. And insuring that shock does not occur. I didn't go further into this question because nothing else was asked. I was reading some post and it seams some of you guys already have this guy picking his plot LOL.

I know longer stay certified. But on my end when I was certified it seemed like God kept putting me in positions just like this to help people. Hell I remember going camping and a kid got hit on his bike right in front of my camp site. I used to ask God why he allowed this to happen to me all the time and I do mean all the time. Finally I got a clue, I was the person he wanted there at the time. I stopped dredding it and just excepted the fact thats what he wanted and he would give me the skill to do it and he always did.

This is what I had to do:
Trusting Acceptance of God’s Will As Christians, we do not only have a secure belief in God, we also have an acceptance that what God tells us to do is for our benefit. A part of the definition of faith is accepting God’s will over our own will. This means that we understand that what God is asking us to do will always work out for the good of those who love and listen to Him.

Jesus said to us to have faith like a little child. A child will accept what is asked of them and then go and do it. As Christians we do not question what God wants us to do. We just go ahead and do it because we have faith that what we are being asked to do will help further the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Easy to hear, hard to do. But every ounce is true. )

 

[Cap Capello]

Amen.

 

[Ron Auger]

Here's are two recent stories, one last night here in MA about people trying to be good Samaritan's and getting it stuffed up their ......

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/15870053/detail.html

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/sports/15869545/detail.html

 

[DJBob]

As soon as I started reading Caps report, I figured out he was a retired cop. lol. Cap- that looks too much like a police report not to be one lol.

I am a retired paramedic. When I was on active duty with all my certifications and credentials up to date, I had a moral and legal obligation to help out, whether I was on duty or off duty. Now that I am retired and my certifications have expired, I am a civilian and am covered by the Good Samaritian act, which protects lay people from lawsuits for acting in good faith at the scene of a medical problem - example- You cannot be sued for breaking ribs while performing CPR. There has never been a sucessful lawsuit against the Good Samaritian Act.

The Good Samaritan act does not cover specific medical or invasive skills - another example- even though I've done it a million times, if I was to start an IV on someone now I could get charged with practicing medicine w/o a license and would be liable if the person has complications from my actions

The level of your involvement is a personal issue. You might turn the music down, turn the lights up, and do what you feel is warranted and within your training, even if the only thing you do is call 911 (Drs do it all the time). Above all, your safety comes first.

 

[Alphabet]

A perfect example of my 'two worlds' coliding was on Friday night.

Meaning, my "EMS world" as a medic & the "DJ world".

Scenario:

I was helping the local middle school out with their production of "Calamity Jane". My wife works there & had offered our help to the staff/students. It was greatly appreciated & accepted.

Ok, so picture this: I am upstairs in the balcony with the kids (8th & 9th grade students) & Heather and another parent - an EMT & Lt with the local EMS service (Volunteer). An 8th grader is operating the sound board, with the assistance of another student who's following along with the script, telling him when to raise/lower the different actor's wireless lav. mics.

Things are going great through Act 1 & halfway into Act 2 when all of a sudden, the student at the soundboard, clutches his chest, says "My heart!" & runs from his post to the side of the balcony near the exit. I was like, "What just happened" - not panicing. But I can see him hunched up in a ball & it looks like he's trying to make a phone call. I'm asked by the one parent (the EMT) - "Is he Ok?". "I dunno, can you go check him?" was my reply. So realizing there's a show still going on, I hop in behind the sound board & keep on with the show. No one is the wiser to this point.

Well, after a few seconds, I call on my wireless headset to the other stage crew, "Does anyone know if XXXXXXX has a heart condition?". A voice comes over the earpiece, "Yes, he has SVT". "Ok, he's in that now". BAM - the directors come flying upstairs & the show's still going on.

He was awake the entire time & had called his mother. Mom was on the way & apparently this happens to him quite frequently. He went home with Mom & was back the next night.

But what was my 'Duty to Act'? Well, I asked if he was ok. He was awake & talking. So there were plenty of others there that could help him. But there was still a show that needed to go on & it finished with the audience not being the wiser. Phew....

If the situation was different, i.e. he had become unconscious, or worse... well that would've been another scenario. Granted Heather asked me later, "What was going through your head at that point"? I dunno - "Are you kidding me?" comes to mind given all of the technical issues we had earlier in the week with the wireless mics, slow scene changes, bad sound equipment from the school district. But seriously, the outcome was a positive one from at least our perspective.

Oh well, I've gotta get my work done.

Cheers,

Joe

 

[Cap Capello]

Joey : Wow. With all due respect, better you than me.

They say, "Ignorance is bliss" and I guarantee you I'm a very blissful person.