Kind of a milestone for autokdj

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jokerswild said:
That's a very comendable sentament but we live in the real world.... and in the real world you either advance or remain stagnant in your state in life.... it is your choice to remain that way or to move forward... but, you must move forward or step asside....
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Toq's co-worker does not impede HIM. She is not competition. Her elimination would be of no benefit to him. He will not advance through her elimination. Her loss of livlihood would have exactly NO EFFECT on Toqer, plus or minus.

She is a human being with a life, friends, family, and responsibilities of her own. Taking her livlihood away for no reason is equivalant to walking across the street to kick a stranger. Saying "Oh well, look at the new toy (which, again, is of no business use to Toqer himself)" doesn't change that.

BTW- I don't give a fat dam about "how the world is now". I have been extremely successful in several businesses ( to the point of being able to live life on MY terms) without going out of my way to hurt others for no reason. Yes, it CAN be done. Why work a bit harder? Because if you lose your humanity, your heart, your ability to feel what others feel, and CARE, than you lose pretty much all that is of worth in yourself. In my humble opinion, of course.

To put it in selfish terms, if you want anybody in this world to love, care, and worry about you, it'd would be a good idea to be able to do the same.
 
Joe: You are taking this as a direct attack against you and that just isn't what this topic is all about....

If you have an employee that is unable to or unwilling to learn a system no mater what kind of system it is... that they must learn or employment can not continue that is their loss... no this employee is of no consequence to toqer, me or even you for that matter.... their lively hood is in their own hands I will not cry if in the advancement of this or any industry pushes out those that are unwilling or unable to keep up with it... it's just not my problem.

This type of person in an impediment to the advancement of a company because this person who ever they are can't do it....

Would you want a surgen working on your heart that wasn't willing to utilize the latest equipment that is guaranteed to prolong your life or kill you if he don't?

Would you support this surgen if not using this equipment ment them keeping their job or being told to hit the bricks?

Sure many advancements in the world are not good, but others are very benificial... this could be benificial to the industry... it means less work while gaining the ability to use your time more wisely by engaging the patrons more, period.
 
Ok everyone, lets take a deep breath and mellow out here please. Just a reminder, keep in mind the community guidelines when posting, thanks.
 
Carolyn said:
1) Isn't that part of being in business to increase revenue? Thinking outside of the box is many times a good thing.


2) After all if a place has auto KJ then they also have to have someone to maintain the equipment, update the song lists, replace equipment. I think this is where Toqer is coming from. It is an added source of income. Nothing wrong with that.
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1) Yes, for yourself- YOUR business, not someone else's at your own expense.


2) True. However, then one must make a choice: Do you want to be a Karaoke Host or an Equipment Maintainance person? Nothing wrong with either choice, but if not a host, then would one have gotten into the business in the first place?
 
jokerswild said:
Joe: You are taking this as a direct attack against you and that just isn't what this topic is all about....

If you have an employee that is unable to or unwilling to learn a system no mater what kind of system it is... that they must learn or employment can not continue that is their loss... no this employee is of no consequence to toqer, me or even you for that matter.... their lively hood is in their own hands I will not cry if in the advancement of this or any industry pushes out those that are unwilling or unable to keep up with it... it's just not my problem.

This type of person in an impediment to the advancement of a company because this person who ever they are can't do it....

Would you want a surgen working on your heart that wasn't willing to utilize the latest equipment that is guaranteed to prolong your life or kill you if he don't?

Would you support this surgen if not using this equipment ment them keeping their job or being told to hit the bricks?

Sure many advancements in the world are not good, but others are very benificial... this could be benificial to the industry... it means less work while gaining the ability to use your time more wisely by engaging the patrons more, period.
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Rob, trust me, there's nothing personal being taken, love ya ta death.

What you are discussing is the job and venues in general. What I'm trying to get across is that I am only talking about this specific situation. The hostess in question has no need to make any changes because management hasn't requested it, and she has her own patrons who seem to prefer HER style of doing things. TOQER is not an owner. Therefore, she is in no one's way! If the owners wanted her to change it would be a different story. Toq is just another employee- like her. HE is the only one pushing for change. What she does or doesn't do happens at a time when he's not there, and if HER patrons were unhappy with HER, she would already be gone. In this situation, she would be losing her livlihood simply because she worked in the same place where another employee made a business error ( and yes, unless you can tell me how Toq will benefit IN THE LONG RUN, that's what it is. The style of karaoke that Toq employs involves very little customer interaction, so the "time savings" won't be put in that direction. I have already listed the other possible risks and setbacks.)

Bottom line: If either she or Toq loses what they have worked so hard for at this venue and in this situation, it will be for absolutely no good reason. Whether you are mobile and independent, or work out of a single club as an employee, you are working for yourself to earn an income- running your own business. It is bad business to willingly give someone else the edge. If the owners came up with the idea it would be a good business decision (maybe) on their part. However, HANDING them something that could be detrimental to YOUR business is not. That is what happened here.

Joker, my apologies if I sound too edgy here. I'm not upset at all, I am just trying to get through that I am not arguing technology here, I'm only discussing business strategy and maybe using humanity and empathy issues to help put the point across. In the end, what's gonna happen is gonna happen- or maybe not. :sqrolleyes: I am really posting to encourage looking before leaping. Once again, I could be completely off base regarding this situation and all will be well. It's what I'm hoping for. However it turns out, I still encourage all to take time to examine ALL possible consequences of any business decision. :sqcool:
 
I'm almost afraid to post here because of you joe.

It seems like everytime I make some sort of technological advancement or achievment, you're just waiting in the wings.

I didn't really bother reading your other posts because it's just gonna be the same longwinded posts, who doesn't have anything beneficial to add to the thread.

You need to cool it joe. It's getting old real fast.
 
JoeChartreuse said:
Rob, trust me, there's nothing personal being taken, love ya ta death.

What you are discussing is the job and venues in general. What I'm trying to get across is that I am only talking about this specific situation. The hostess in question has no need to make any changes because management hasn't requested it, and she has her own patrons who seem to prefer HER style of doing things. TOQER is not an owner. Therefore, she is in no one's way! If the owners wanted her to change it would be a different story. Toq is just another employee- like her. HE is the only one pushing for change. What she does or doesn't do happens at a time when he's not there, and if HER patrons were unhappy with HER, she would already be gone. In this situation, she would be losing her livlihood simply because she worked in the same place where another employee made a business error ( and yes, unless you can tell me how Toq will benefit IN THE LONG RUN, that's what it is. The style of karaoke that Toq employs involves very little customer interaction, so the "time savings" won't be put in that direction. I have already listed the other possible risks and setbacks.)

Bottom line: If either she or Toq loses what they have worked so hard for at this venue and in this situation, it will be for absolutely no good reason. Whether you are mobile and independent, or work out of a single club as an employee, you are working for yourself to earn an income- running your own business. It is bad business to willingly give someone else the edge. If the owners came up with the idea it would be a good business decision (maybe) on their part. However, HANDING them something that could be detrimental to YOUR business is not. That is what happened here.

Joker, my apologies if I sound too edgy here. I'm not upset at all, I am just trying to get through that I am not arguing technology here, I'm only discussing business strategy and maybe using humanity and empathy issues to help put the point across. In the end, what's gonna happen is gonna happen- or maybe not. :sqrolleyes: I am really posting to encourage looking before leaping. Once again, I could be completely off base regarding this situation and all will be well. It's what I'm hoping for. However it turns out, I still encourage all to take time to examine ALL possible consequences of any business decision. :sqcool:
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I understand what you are saying....

Here's the thing... if I convert all my systems over to PC I'd expect that all of my employees to be able to operate these new PC's.... if they weren't able to do so or didn't want too... then there's the door...

I know that toqer isn't the owner of 7 Bamboo but he is the manager of the karaoke systems in place there... believe me when I tell you if the owners see a profit potential off of what toqer is doing and the other host isn't able to or simply wont learn the new system that person can always go back to serving drinks.... she ain't gonna be out of a job.... she might not be hosting anymore but certainly not pushed out on the street...

Am I right toqer?
 
Here's how I see it:

By allowing technology to take over the mundane operations of running a karaoke show.... I do not see this as handing over to an owner something that is going to put me out of a job... that's just fear of technology... hense why I said paranoia...

Technology is a great thing! But, it will never replace the human element that many people need... this is why most of the places with the CAVS systems don't do very well without a host...

I do see your point really I do...

Let me see if I can synoposis your point...

By toqer implementing technology which basically takes over the hosts duties almost entirely he is handing over his job to the computer and therefore putting himself and the other host out of a job... is that basicly it in a nut shell?

Thing is this technology that you fear is taking over really isn't.... sure you no longer need a host to take tickets, find a CDG, insert it into a player, call the singer, maintain the rotation, and press play... but who cares about that....

To me the above is just the mechanics of the job and not the real job of hosting at all....

As a host it is our job to entice people in and then keep them there... we can do that easier if we aren't tied up with the mechanics of running a show... Automated systems such as toqer's free's us up from the mundane mechanics of running a show.
 
Carolyn said:
Ok everyone, lets take a deep breath and mellow out here please. Just a reminder, keep in mind the community guidelines when posting, thanks.
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Carolyn, though it sounds heated, it's because the Joker, Toq, and I are all very passionate about what we do. We are also used to beating the heck out of each other :sqrolleyes:. We all know that it's not personal. However, for the sake of the forum, I will try to gentle up a bit. :sqembarrassed:
 
toqer said:
I'm almost afraid to post here because of you joe.

It seems like everytime I make some sort of technological advancement or achievment, you're just waiting in the wings.

If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I didn't really bother reading your other posts because it's just gonna be the same longwinded posts, who doesn't have anything beneficial to add to the thread.

You need to cool it joe. It's getting old real fast.
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Kinda icky Toq. I guess I should clear up my position regarding technology. I am an electronic design engineer with an EE degree. I have designed and built a computer around bubble memory, using only fiberoptics for connections. As an exercise, I designed and built a 100w home karaoke system using MP3 and MP4 technology. The player and video source can fit in the palm of your hand. With that I added a touch screen mixer slightly bigger than a deck of cards, and a mini 100w amp the size of a paperback. and two 3 way 40w 6" bookshelf speakers, with a 7" LCD monitor. The whole system minus mics fits in a photographer's camera bag. I designed and built Hi-Def video in the 70s equal to what's available today, using the AIM ( Automated Interlace Module) circuit for medical imaging.

Not only do I USE cutting edge technology, I CREATE IT.. I use what I can, but I like getting top money for what I do. I am also a business man, and have the smarts not to shoot myself in the foot. If you have read this thread, then you know that my only issue is my concern for you, because I respect the passion with which you do your work. I am not trying to disparage what you do, I am trying to add business acumen.

In the DJ forums I have bought up perceived value and worth as opposed to actuality. I know of a club DJ who worked with the house system. He would come in with a couple of flash drives around his neck, plug, and play. Ya wanna know how fast he was out of a HUGE paying job? Apparently some one made a copy of the drives while he was on break.


I wish some one would understand that this is about YOU, and that I'm on your side. Think about it. What possible long term benefit is it TO YOU to hand your employers an automated version of what you are paid to do?? Really? If you disagree, please remember that I respect you, and would be happy to learn, if you would tell me the error in my thinking. I am NOT trolling, I'm truly worried for you....and my apologies for my "windbagatude". It's just that I'm as passionate about this business as you.
 
JoeChartreuse said:
Carolyn, though it sounds heated, it's because the Joker, Toq, and I are all very passionate about what we do. We are also used to beating the heck out of each other :sqrolleyes:. We all know that it's not personal. However, for the sake of the forum, I will try to gentle up a bit. :sqembarrassed:
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Alrighty then, I am going to ask that we refrain from any name calling please.

There isn't any need to beat the heck out of each other, beating up on each other goes against what ODJT is about and hurts the comradery and friendships that have been established.

Real simple here, just agree to disagree. Thanks everyone.
 
jokerswild said:
I understand what you are saying....

Here's the thing... if I convert all my systems over to PC I'd expect that all of my employees to be able to operate these new PC's.... if they weren't able to do so or didn't want too... then there's the door...

I know that toqer isn't the owner of 7 Bamboo but he is the manager of the karaoke systems in place there... believe me when I tell you if the owners see a profit potential off of what toqer is doing and the other host isn't able to or simply wont learn the new system that person can always go back to serving drinks.... she ain't gonna be out of a job.... she might not be hosting anymore but certainly not pushed out on the street...

Am I right toqer?
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OK, we're seeing eye to eye here. I am in complete agreement. If an employee can't fulfill the requirements of the job that the OWNERS wish her to do, so be it. However, if her ( and possibly his )job is not lost due to lack of skills, but simple erased by the owners using the autokj?
 
jokerswild said:
Here's how I see it:
Let me see if I can synoposis your point...

By toqer implementing technology which basically takes over the hosts duties almost entirely he is handing over his job to the computer and therefore putting himself and the other host out of a job... is that basicly it in a nut shell?

Thing is this technology that you fear is taking over really isn't.... sure you no longer need a host to take tickets, find a CDG, insert it into a player, call the singer, maintain the rotation, and press play... but who cares about that....

To me the above is just the mechanics of the job and not the real job of hosting at all....

As a host it is our job to entice people in and then keep them there... we can do that easier if we aren't tied up with the mechanics of running a show... Automated systems such as toqer's free's us up from the mundane mechanics of running a show.
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You're about halfway there. I don't fear it. Autokj technology has been around since CDs in Japan, and at least 12 years here. It's not even state of the art. In MOST places it doesn't work, but it has in some Asian bars-resulting in NO HOST, and MAY in Toq's particular venue. I agree that, especially in my case, the mechanics are only a small part of what it is to host. However, from what I understand, Toq's style is radically different than mine. If he is no longer needed for the mechanics, and isn't big on interaction, what else will he do to earn his pay? Equipment maintainance? OK. However, my understanding is that he likes to host..?

As for the technology you all think I worry about: virtually ALL technology available to the consumer is around 15 years behind state of the art. Even CIA espionage equipment is around 5 years behind. Basically, what you call "new" is merely rehashed software and jiggled hardware. None of it is a concern to me, because I've already seen it, tried it, and gone past it- and maybe even designed better. I choose to use what I do for business purposes, and it pays- a LOT.

I really wish that it could be understood that this whole thing revolves ONLY around my concern for TOQER and his associate, and is not a technology debate.

However, if my concerns cause tension and aren't helpful, then I respectfully shut my face.
 
Carolyn said:
Alrighty then, I am going to ask that we refrain from any name calling please.

There isn't any need to beat the heck out of each other, beating up on each other goes against what ODJT is about and hurts the comradery and friendships that have been established.

Real simple here, just agree to disagree. Thanks everyone.
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Carolyn, I re-read my posts. I don't ever use negative personalizations (call names), especially in a case where the other posters hold as much of my respect as those two. By "beating up" I only meant spirited debate. Both these guys know they are top notch in my book!
 
Ok I get what you are saying Joe... I was in the military and if you want to talk about out dated equipment then the Navy is full of state-of-the-60s art technology that I'd agree on...

Sure many other karaoke hosting softwares are simply re-hashed DJ softwares with sort of a rotation added and if you are judgeing all karaoke softwares by PCDJ you'd be way off base on a lot of the newer hosters...

AutOKdj for one does way more than you'd expect it to do... sure it doesn't have the bells and whistles that say something like compuhost nor does it have dual players like say Roxbox or Show Presenter or even MTU Hoster does... but what it does have and does better than anyother hoster is rotation handling and automation.... this is where this program excels and outpaces the rest... and in that light it is inovative...

Not one asian bar that uses products such as CAVs to eliminate the need of a host can handle a rotation... pure and simple strip it down that is what autokdj is really about.

Add into it the singer kiosk and fully automate and sure you could have a karaoke jukebox of sorts... but it's not a perfect system yet... and is continually evolveing into something with a far greater reach than just one lonely old bar.

It can and does work in other venues... I've proven that... mostly at weddings but if it can work at toqer's little bar and my weddings and countless other users have taylored it to work for them it can't be all bad.

Notice I used the word "taylor" this system is scaleable to each users use... and can be configured to work almost any way a host chooses from manual to fully automated... your choice.

Heck one of the latest features will be a way for a person to add/donate a new song to the kj's library via paypal... how cool is that?

There are a lot of things about automation that make sense from a business standpoint... #1 would be dead time between singers. I know you don't have that problem but other hosts do... #2 the host no longer has to worry about his rotation being fair the computer handles all that based on a set of rule options set by the KJ... For me this would really be the number one reason the automation is important... (no more slips of paper or paper rotations)

There are no other hosters out there that can truely boast all that autokdj is and can do.

I personally choose to run in manual advance mode which basically means I have to press play for each singer as their turn comes up... I do it this way because I'm not in a venue long enough to get regulars to learn how a fully automated system can work....

I know you have all your karaoke on your hard drive... why not give autokdj a shot... I'd be more than happy to help you with the initial setup...

You've seen my video on using Power CDG Burner right? I think I will do a video like that for using AutOKdj too. Maybe then folks will see some of the benefits to an automated system...
 
Joker, that was a great post. Unfortunately it has nothing to do with 7 Bamboo, specifically, Toqer and associate specifically, and their specific situation which is all I'm concerned about. To be blunt, from what he tells me, Toqer isn't much for interaction. If that's true, and he's freed of the mechanics, there's no reason for him to be there. The funny thing is, since the hostess DOES interact, she may even be safer than him!

Please, I'm begging you- no moretechnology posts. This is only about business, and TOQ and 7 Bamboo
 
Her interact my butt.... hahaha 'tis to laugh!

Watch her show it's usually Bore-dcasted on Tu-Wed 9pm CST just go to www.7bamboo.com and follow the link for the live stream...

Trust me she interacts like an incompatable disc format.... "error, error no os found"

Of course toqer is there durring the busy nights thur-sat.... his crowds might be do in part to the time of the week but also to how the show is run... very little gaps between singers and almost no dead air...

As for interaction by toqer... that mostly consists on chastising singers for missuse of equipment and running mics out to the next singer, collecting them back, running lights, monitoring the song playlist, monitoring and helping people use the kiosk... He of course does the usual stuff such as calling out for the next singer... his show is soo fast paced most of the time that there isn't time for the BS of other shows.
 
jokerswild said:
1))Her interact my butt.... hahaha 'tis to laugh!

Watch her show it's usually Bore-dcasted on Tu-Wed 9pm CST just go to www.7bamboo.com and follow the link for the live stream...



2) As for interaction by toqer... that mostly consists on chastising singers for missuse of equipment and running mics out to the next singer, collecting them back, running lights, monitoring the song playlist, monitoring and helping people use the kiosk... He of course does the usual stuff such as calling out for the next singer... his show is soo fast paced most of the time that there isn't time for the BS of other shows.
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1) Ok, my bad on her interacting. I must have misread an old post.


2) Here you seem to agree with me? :sqerr: Since he really doesn't do personal interaction ( which is the way it's gotta be with rotations such as his), what else is there for him to do?. In the "No Host" Asian bars, ther IS no rotation. First one up with and feeding money sings. The only "control" is if some one goes up too often too quickly the crowd cold shoulders his rudeness with silence and glares until he gets the idea. In most cases, however, they are very polite.

Since 7 Bamboo, like many Asian bars, operates on the bribe/tip system, what does the rotation mean anyway? The only difference is that Toq won't be getting those bribes/tips.

What I've been saying all along is that Toq's autokj is probably going to be a moneymaker for the bar, which is good for them. However, after three pages, I still can't see any business benefit for Toqer. If he gains time, he has no place to use it. IF he gets a percentage it will almost certainly be tempory.

I've got an idea :sqeek:: In the interest of lowering tension levels, howsabout simply listing the benefits? If they are not arguable, such as the two above that I mentioned, I will bow and scrape my way into silence. If not, then all I ask is that Toqer keep his eyes and ears open, be aware of any attitude changes in the venue, and just be careful. What do ya think? :sqwink:
 
Gentlemen, "assumed" I have asked on two occasions to tone this down you obviously believe you have done so, however you are merely baiting each other with your statements sorry, but I am closing this thread.
 
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