Business Loss - And How to Report

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jokerswild

Chief Bottle Washer
Feb 11, 2007
18,776
1,288
Elkhart, IN
www.totalimpactdjs.com
Ok so this is spun out of another post.

This is a two parter:

1. Imagine if you will a dark stormy night... your house is destroyed and you lose important "Business Equipment" leaving aside insurance claims for the moment how do you deal with this on an accounting and tax level?

2. Once we sort that out, how do you deal with this in regards to a personal Renter's or Homeowners policy as compaired to a business policy?
 
A qualified Business Tax Accountant (CPA) sould be able to answer that for you.
 
I've never had anything destroyed or damaged in an accident or vandalism, but I've had a few items just die. In Turbo Tax I find the item, and edit it to show it is out of Service due to failure. What happens after that I have no idea, but I guess it show the remaining depreciated value as a loss.
 
It depends on the assets taxable value at the time it was destroyed, lost, stolen, or sold..

Using a simple round number it works like this:

You buy an asset for $1000, and it gets destroyed 1 year later.

If you elected to depreciate the item over 5 years then you have realized only 10% of the allowable depreciation. (100% -10% -20% -20% -20% -20% -10% = Zero)

However, the asset is now a premature zero (destroyed) and you would claim the remaining 90% depreciation as a casualty loss (= $900)

Remember, the $900 is a reductrion of your income before the tax rate is applied and not a reduction (credit) in the actual tax payable. If you are in the 28% tax bracket a $900 deduction represents a maximum tax savings of $252.

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Now, let's assume that instead of depreciating the asset - you elect to take all of your depreciation in the first year under the Section 179 expense allowance (up to $200,000).

In this instance the asset is already fully depreciated by the time it gets destroyed, and you have realized the full 100% depreciable value. Your casualty loss for tax purposes is = $0.

The only tax benefit to you is the dedcution for any NEW purchase you make. You would buy another $1000 replacement, and under the same section 179 clause realize a $1000 decution for the NEW asset.

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Another year goes buy, and this time you SELL your $1000 asset to an aspiring young DJ who pays you $800 for it.

You already claimed on your tax return that it's value was $0 !!! Obviously, you were mistaken because someone gladly paid you $800 for it. Uncle Sam requires that you "recapture" that portion of the depreciable value that you over-represented. Thus, on your next tax return you must either recapture $800 of the previous deduction you took for depreciation.

This is why for example, many business will "give away" certain property after it has been fully depreciated even though it may still have a market value. If you aregoing to get new office furniture - sellingthe old stuff will create a taxable event. Telling the employees to take it home with them, or donating it to charity will not.

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Now, take the same scenario, but this time the aspiring young DJ paid $1300.

You will have to recapture all $1000 of your previous deduction, AND claim the adittional $300 as a capital gain.

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If any of your property is destroyed and subsequently covered or replaced by insurance - you do not incur a loss for tax purposes unless the insurance falls short of the asset's current depreciable value.

For example, your asset had $600 remaining in depreciated value, but insurance reimbursed you for only $400. You would have a deductible loss of $200. How you represent this in your tax filing may vary.

Insurance benefits are separate from the tax code, except where insurance proceeds are income and subject to tax. So while one does not change the other - the amounts can to some extent offset each other. Whether you claim the insurance settlement as income or a reduction in depreciation is a matter of accounting method.
 
Bob,

That was the most confusing answer I've read, since I could read (not to mention the spelling) :sqerr:

No wonder I use yer website as an example, when DJs ask what not to do...



Rob, get a good accountant -- pay them to deal with it (that's a write off too) :sqwink: :sqbiggrin:
 
Thanks Rick. You're a charmer. Goats lying down again? :)

My spelling is only moderately as poor as my typing skills suggest.

Confusing? - I didn't write the tax code so take that issue up with your Uncle Sam. :eek:
 
Thanks Rick. You're a charmer. Goats lying down again? :)

My spelling is only moderately as poor as my typing skills suggest.

Confusing? - I din't write the tax code so take that issue up with your Uncle Sam. :eek:


:sqlaugh:

It's ok Bob, I hear I'm a charmer... :)

And yes, I miss the goats.


All things considered though, who cares? So, you get it wrong, the IRS sends the goon squad in, and you pay a $150 penalty. No biggie man :sqcool:

They ain't gonna put in ya in jail, because you put something in the wrong column.


They prefer to have regular taxpayers... ;) :)
 
There's just a bit of confusion that's all.

I was answering the question: "how do you deal with this in accounting and on taxes?"

I must have missed your question: "should I just wing it and pay the interest & penalty?
 
There's just a bit of confusion that's all.

I was answering the question: "how do you deal with this in accounting and on taxes?"

I must have missed your question: "should I just wing it and pay the interest & penalty?


Yes, I do believe you missed that...

Cost of doing business (they should have taught you that in business school).


I couldn't care less if I get fined -- I care about the ending ROI. If I end up paying a $150 penalty, but made $250 in interest in the mean time -- I win :)
 
As a side note, your personal Renter's or Homeowners policy will not cover business equipment.
 
I couldn't care less if I get fined -- I care about the ending ROI. If I end up paying a $150 penalty, but made $250 in interest in the mean time -- I win

The IRS charges BOTH interest AND a penalty.

If you ever succeed at finding investments that pay higher interest than that levied by the IRS on overdue taxes - that will be a really big win.
 
As a side note, your personal Renter's or Homeowners policy will not cover business equipment.

Actually you are right and wrong at the same time.... no my renters will not cover my business equipment outside of my home... but, while it is in my home it's covered. I have a 10,000.00 policy with a 500.00 deductable.

These were the specific questions I asked. Will it cover my Sound System while in the house... the answer was yes and clearly printed on my policy that it covered all items contained within the house. I even provided a list of our valuables and have updated it as things changed including the sale of one system and the purchase of the initial Bose system... now I have to add the new Bose system to the policy.

That being said... after this past weekends events... I will no longer rely on just my renters I will be taking a policy out through Wedj to cover me commercially as well.