ADJ Inno Pocket Spot or Cheap Chinese 15 watt LED Moving Head Light?

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DJ Ricky B said:
... but would I want to offer that kind of production and have to hire helpers to set everything up, plus the cost of owning 8 or more expensive moving heads? Nope.
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If you don't want to offer it, that's one thing (and that's ok) - but then you may never get those caliber of shows either. Why? - because they want the 'fluff', the biggest, baddest and best there is.

I agree that LED's did cost more back when they first came out - that said, current day, LED Par's still cost more than their bulbed counterparts - so prices have gone up. When there was a bulbed version of a fixture (say a scanner), a LED version of the similar light cost the same or more. LED's were supposed to bring the prices down.

Example, a new name brand bulbed (par 36) pin spot = $20 and up. A new name brand LED (par 36) pin spot = $40 and up - twice the cost.
 
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DJ Ricky B said:
To be fair. If I can remember that particular mitzvah correctly...I was never asked about lighting, and I believe the lighting company was seen at a previous mitzvah, and the client hired them as referral from that mitzvah. I was booked after the lighting company on that one.

Not to mention, I have no intentions of providing 4 tall totems, and 8 moving heads. They had a 4 man crew come in to set everything up, and come back to tear everything down. That particular client did shell out a lot of money for lighting, but in over 100 mitzvahs, I've only seen it done a couple of times

Could I get $3,700 to add in a light show of this caliber? Maybe, but very unlikely...More than likely no, but would I want to offer that kind of production and have to hire helpers to set everything up, plus the cost of owning 8 or more expensive moving heads? Nope. Let's say I sell 5 mitzvahs a year with this sort of lighting. ...Maybe I add $18,000 in revenue. But after paying for labor, and the original cost of truss/totems/moving heads...I don't think the profit and head ache would be worth it for me. Not to mention the monthly storage costs of owning all this equipment. It would have to go into a storage unit (and I already own two units to boot!)

I know the lighting tech himself get's paid $250 minimum by contract, and probably got a bit more on that gig. The 3 other employees who came to tear it down were probably being paid $20 per hour, or at least near it. Then the cost of the box truck to haul everything....at the very least the truck was a rental, that's another $300 or more for the weekend. Adding up all those miscellaneous costs wouldn't be worth it to me to offer.

With offering this type of service comes way more risk.

Also, let's not forget this was back in 2010. 5 years ago Lighting Companies were charging a pretty penny to supply lighting because it simply cost a good bit more then as well. Would this same light show fetch $3,700 today for a mitzvah?
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You're right, it's impossible. I can't imagine why customers even bother asking.
 
DJ Ricky B said:
To be fair. If I can remember that particular mitzvah correctly...I was never asked about lighting,
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Why would you have to be asked, why wouldn't you be selling the services you have to try to gain more income, I only occasionally get asked about uplighting, but I make sure every client knows that I offer it.
 
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Unless you are a production company working under contract with a rider that specifies certain fixtures or name brands, I can't believe the average consumer client knows or cares what the difference is between a Martin/ADJ/Chauvet/Blizzard or some cheap Chinese knockoff fixture anyways.
As long as they are bright and look good so everyone goes "ooooohhhhh, aaaaaaaahhhhh" then you have succeeded, and no matter what the name is on the fixture it should have little to no bearing on the price you can charge.
If it does then you are not marketing properly.

Don't we all tell our clients that we only use professional "concert grade" gear?;)

Martin is quality no question, but again unless it's a contracted rider, it should have no bearing on what you can charge the average consumer.

Unless your goal is to become that production company that goes after those brand specific contracts, then what brand you buy as a business decision will have to be made solely based on initial cost vs life expectancy as it will not generate you extra revenue just because you have that $5000 light instead of the $500 dollar light, all else being equal.

The Chauvet spot 150's by all accounts are nice movers (and really quick too), and would be great for smaller gigs as they are pretty bright but if I was seriously going after the higher end Mitzvah market or was looking to buy something I could grow into and therefore get maximum ROI out of a sunk cost, my reccomendation would be to get 50-60 watt LED's with interchangeable rotating gobos to put custom monograms into.
You can get some pretty compact movers in that brightness range now that wouldn't take up much more room in your vehicle than the 150's.

The brand is up to you based on what I have said above.
 
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DJ TJ said:
Unless you are a production company working under contract with a rider that specifies certain fixtures or name brands, I can't believe the average consumer client knows or cares what the difference is between a Martin/ADJ/Chauvet/Blizzard or some cheap Chinese knockoff fixture anyways.
As long as they are bright and look good so everyone goes "ooooohhhhh, aaaaaaaahhhhh" then you have succeeded, and no matter what the name is on the fixture it should have little to no bearing on the price you can charge.
If it does then you are not marketing properly.

Don't we all tell our clients that we only use professional "concert grade" gear?;)

Martin is quality no question, but again unless it's a contracted rider, it should have no bearing on what you can charge the average consumer.

Unless your goal is to become that production company that goes after those brand specific contracts, then what brand you buy as a business decision will have to be made solely based on initial cost vs life expectancy as it will not generate you extra revenue just because you have that $5000 light instead of the $500 dollar light, all else being equal.

The Chauvet spot 150's by all accounts are nice movers (and really quick too), and would be great for smaller gigs as they are pretty bright but if I was seriously going after the higher end Mitzvah market or was looking to buy something I could grow into and therefore get maximum ROI out of a sunk cost, my reccomendation would be to get 50-60 watt LED's with interchangeable rotating gobos to put custom monograms into.
You can get some pretty compact movers in that brightness range now that wouldn't take up much more room in your vehicle than the 150's.

The brand is up to you based on what I have said above.
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I have never used the term "concert grade" professional yes nothing I own is anywhere near what they would use at a concert
 
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Well I was generally referring to the quality of the gear not the quantity as on the scale of a full blown touring production company.

Anyways whether you call it professional or concert grade or top quality or whatever, the point was we all tell the client that we only use quality professional gear, not home stereos etc.... as a selling point.
 
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DJ TJ said:
Well I was generally referring to the quality of the gear not the quantity as on the scale of a full blown touring production company.

Anyways whether you call it professional or concert grade or top quality or whatever, the point was we all tell the client that we only use quality professional gear, not home stereos etc.... as a selling point.
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Unfortunately .. too many call what they have "professional" gear ...

http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Audi..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=14WDJETP3DNYTYDXE72Q

Acoustic Audio GX-350 1000 Watt Pair 2-Way 5.25" Pro DJ PA Speakers - $59/pair

51f9j48cEiL.jpg


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Well yeah but I think the point of the thread is to decide what gear (movers in this case) are worth the initial cost outlay vs lifespan to get the best roi on a sunk cost based on the fact that you can't charge the consumer more for one brand of gear over another (contractual riders excepted).
 
DJ TJ said:
Well yeah but I think the point of the thread is to decide what gear (movers in this case) are worth the initial cost outlay vs lifespan to get the best roi on a sunk cost based on the fact that you can't charge the consumer more for one brand of gear over another (contractual riders excepted).
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Like anything else .. it depends. Going after big money "fluff" gigs .. better have quality stuff and a bunch of it. Going after commercial gigs .. better have super reliable stuff. Going after the gigs most/many here go after .. probably isn't a big deal any which way .. (except if you're a gear whore like some of us) .. but no whining when it doesn't work or doesn't actually bring in the big money.
 
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DJ TJ said:
As long as they are bright and look good so everyone goes "ooooohhhhh, aaaaaaaahhhhh" then you have succeeded, and no matter what the name is on the fixture it should have little to no bearing on the price you can charge.
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That's lame.
People pay for what you do with lighting, not simply it's presence.
It matters that the fixture has the capability to produce what is promised. It matters even more that you are also capable of operating it to achieve that same promise. Both have a huge bearing on the price because either capability is rendered useless in the absence of the other.

If you don't have or don't care about either capability then it shows, and your lighting is just an after-thought. Customers have no reason to believe it worthy of much cost.

You want to make more money? Try Harder and actually care.
 
Of course people will pay for what you do with the lighting, not just it's presence.
In the high end "fluff" gigs, that's what you are doing is selling a complete lightshow as standalone entertainment itself.
Yes it better be good and and what you can do with it and how you present it can create the right ambiance that sets you apart from the others just as you can as a DJ, perhaps even more so as those that are really good can create experiences for their customers that are almost works of art.

Sorry if I left the impression that all I would do would be to setup the lights and do minimal programming or just leave on sound active figuring that it would really impress everyone.
The "oooh,aaah" was meant to help visualize how the customer would view the experience of a great light show.

I don't recall recommending any particular brand, or saying to go with the cheap Chinese knockoffs.
I only mentioned that everybody has to make their own decision on ROI based on projected lifespan and the segment of the market they are going after.

Ricky always seems to be looking at a cheap Chinese knockoff of every light to save money as I'm sure all of us have at one time or another, but I think the thread has already concluded that if you are seriously going after any higher end fluff gig that the knockoffs won't cut it.

All that has been debated here is that it doesn't necessarily have to say Martin or any of the other really high end manufacturers names to put on a great light show that any Mitzvah/quince/sweet sixteen attendee would be happy to have at their event, as I mentioned, given everything else being equal as in fixtures of different brands with equal capabilities.
 
steve149 said:
Unfortunately .. too many call what they have "professional" gear ...

http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Audio-GX-350-2-Way-Speakers/dp/B003VAI08A/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=51f9j48cEiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=14WDJETP3DNYTYDXE72Q

Acoustic Audio GX-350 1000 Watt Pair 2-Way 5.25" Pro DJ PA Speakers - $59/pair

51f9j48cEiL.jpg


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Not just that. What about the company's that are selling low budget crap and saying their stuff is professional grade stuff? If you don't know any better you will believe them. I know I've made the mistake of buying something I wish I hadn't. Just learning as I kept DJing.
 
I used the ADJ Inno Pocket Spots at a holiday party at the Hilton on Friday night. One lady there said "These lights are nice" to me.

I left them in sound active mode the whole time. I switched their show up once half way through the event.

I will say this...the beam/gobo effect does look dim if it's hitting the wall of a ball room 100 feet away. However, outside of that I think these little movers are perfect for the typical dance floor light show. The only reason I didn't use them for the Mitzvah on Saturday is because the parents told me there will be a girl in attendance who is epileptic, and the movers do have a strobe effect to them, so I left them home.

I honestly believe that ONLY using moving heads isn't enough of a light show for mitzvahs. You still need to bring other effect lighting out along with it to cover that floor well, and offer an array of various effects. Something like a holiday party for adults, you can get away with a couple of moving heads as the entire light show.

Overall, I'm glad I went with them over the cheap Chinese mini moving heads. I think I may pick a couple more of them up in the future, and bring 4 of these plus various other effects for mitzvahs in the future.
 
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DJ TJ said:
All that has been debated here is that it doesn't necessarily have to say Martin or any of the other really high end manufacturers names to put on a great light show that any Mitzvah/quince/sweet sixteen attendee would be happy to have at their event, as I mentioned, given everything else being equal as in fixtures of different brands with equal capabilities.
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The debate here is the fake duplicity. Throw in brands like Behringer, Pyle, Peavey, etc. and the whole tune changes. Suddenly brand names matter a great deal. You can't have it both ways.

If you don't do lighting people just say so but, don't try to equate what is essentially a toy with real lighting tools, or diminish the results of those who do the real work. It's totally transparent - especially use of the word "fluff" by people who can't produce and aren't involved in that level of work.
 
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DJ Ricky B said:
I used the ADJ Inno Pocket Spots at a holiday party at the Hilton on Friday night. One lady there said "These lights are nice" to me.

I left them in sound active mode the whole time. I switched their show up once half way through the event.

I will say this...the beam/gobo effect does look dim if it's hitting the wall of a ball room 100 feet away. However, outside of that I think these little movers are perfect for the typical dance floor light show. The only reason I didn't use them for the Mitzvah on Saturday is because the parents told me there will be a girl in attendance who is epileptic, and the movers do have a strobe effect to them, so I left them home.

I honestly believe that ONLY using moving heads isn't enough of a light show for mitzvahs. You still need to bring other effect lighting out along with it to cover that floor well, and offer an array of various effects. Something like a holiday party for adults, you can get away with a couple of moving heads as the entire light show.

Overall, I'm glad I went with them over the cheap Chinese mini moving heads. I think I may pick a couple more of them up in the future, and bring 4 of these plus various other effects for mitzvahs in the future.
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have you been able to increase your pricing because of your investment
 
tunes4046 said:
have you been able to increase your pricing because of your investment
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Not yet. Just got them!

I actually plan to lower my rates to rock bottom, and throw everything in under the sun! Why pay extra for the light show from any one else, when you get it free from us? Full ball room up lighting with moving heads, and a lot of other blinky flashy stuff at no extra charge with every booking! :fart::hello2::djparty:

Free Link to a restaurant.com gift card worth $25 for only $4 when you book online too! Your welcome!
 
DJ Ricky B said:
Not yet. Just got them!

I actually plan to lower my rates to rock bottom, and throw everything in under the sun! Why pay extra for the light show from any one else, when you get it free from us? Full ball room up lighting with moving heads, and a lot of other blinky flashy stuff at no extra charge with every booking! :fart::hello2::djparty:

Free Link to a restaurant.com gift card worth $25 for only $4 when you book online too! Your welcome!
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Wait a minute. You're going to LOWER your price and then throw in every (normally) add-on you have, at no additional cost? What gives?
 
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