Silly QSC 181 Question

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scgstuff said:
If you take the low end off the mic channel, wouldn't you eliminate some potential for feedback from subs? Or is your mic into the DDJ instead of a separate channel on the MG10?
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Possibly... but I am running the SZ and Mic into separate channels. So I'll have the ability to both EQ the mic, and decide how much of it I want to route to the subs.

The gig where I had the problem was super frustrating. It was a pro-sound company running a big Nexo rig. An my mic was coming into my SZ, and everything going to their system. When they had me sound check, they never pushed it to performance level - and when I used the mic during the event it had some unbearable feedback.

I was embarrassed, and also frustrated that they should have known better. In this case, I just want to give myself as many options as possible to dial in a sound that is rich and full (maybe a little to the sub), but not generating nasty feedback.
 
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You should not be using the Aux out for your subs because you may be twice summing a mono signal and locking in a certain dynamic prior to hitting any processor. The Aux used that way can also turn your lown end into an unrelated program output depending on the routing. If your controller has a crossover (sub output) use that if not already using the parallel in/outs on the speakers.

Absolutely NONE of your mic should be going to the subs. It provides no benefit and undermines the intelligibility of your voice. Avoid thinking that you can enhance your voice by using heavier bass levels - you can't. If you want a lower voice get a vocoder or take up smoking. :)

I don't see any need for the Yamaha mixer in your system and I think it simply creates more potential issues for you by stacking so many pre amps in the chain. I would expect your mic to be untenable at times - especially if you feed yet another sound system such as your example with the other sound company. Even without the Yamaha the sound tech can't process your mic if it's already embedded in the program, or if they aren't the only pre-amp and processors coloring it. In that situation your mic should be fed directly to their board instead of your own..

A dedicated mic processor ahead of your DJ controller would provide far better control than using an secondary mixer like the Yamaha.
 
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Proformance said:
You should not be using the Aux out for your subs because you may be twice summing a mono signal and locking in a certain dynamic prior to hitting any processor. The Aux used that way can also turn your lown end into an unrelated program output depending on the routing. If your controller has a crossover (sub output) use that if not already using the parallel in/outs on the speakers.

Absolutely NONE of your mic should be going to the subs. It provides no benefit and undermines the intelligibility of your voice. Avoid thinking that you can enhance your voice by using heavier bass levels - you can't. If you want a lower voice get a vocoder or take up smoking. :)

I don't see any need for the Yamaha mixer in your system and I think it simply creates more potential issues for you by stacking so many pre amps in the chain. I would expect your mic to be untenable at times - especially if you feed yet another sound system such as your example with the other sound company. Even without the Yamaha the sound tech can't process your mic if it's already embedded in the program, or if they aren't the only pre-amp and processors coloring it. In that situation your mic should be fed directly to their board instead of your own..

A dedicated mic processor ahead of your DJ controller would provide far better control than using an secondary mixer like the Yamaha.
Click to expand...

I don't have a sub-out on the SZ. That would make it quite a bit easier if I did.

I could also use the booth out, but I'm going to be using that for my monitor.

To route the mic to the tops only, I see a couple of ways to do it.

1) I could use my current plan and route the Aux to the subs. On a mono signal, I only need one XLR from the SZ into the Yamaha board. If I do it that way it should eliminate any summing of the signal.

2) I could send a full signal direct from the SZ into all of the speakers, and a second signal chain into Input 2 of just the tops that includes only the mic signal.

3) I could add a mic processor of some kind. I'm not sure if the goal there is compression, or EQing out all the frequencies that run to the subs. Do you have a suggested device that I should look at?
 
Behringer Ultragain Pro MIC2200 is probably the least expensive way to get what you need on your mic.
Used Behringer BEHRINGER MIC2200
You'll also need an inline transformer (-30db) if you want to plug the output back into the mic input on the DJ controller. Otherwise, you'll need to feed a line input.


Most of the time, DJs are getting feedback at frequencies that are not even in their voice range. If you want to be a live emcee then you need to close the mic to everything except the key range of your own voice. That includes a low cut to keep it out the subs, and high shelf keep unneeded highs out of the tops. If the mic isn't open in any of the sub frequencies then routing to the subs is a non-issue.
 
Using a live sound mixer as the point of convergence of mics and stereo inputs is a RECOMMENDED way of hooking up a DJ system. Not only do you typically get better control over the mics, you also get a redundant mix section in case you lose the main controller.

There are no additional gain stages for the mic .. AND, you get capabilities (like vocal monitoring) you won't get on a controller.

AUX fed subs shouldn't be an issue, but you WILL get a summed output .. and won't be able to run them in stereo.
 
steve149 said:
Using a live sound mixer as the point of convergence of mics and stereo inputs is a RECOMMENDED way of hooking up a DJ system. Not only do you typically get better control over the mics, you also get a redundant mix section in case you lose the main controller.

There are no additional gain stages for the mic .. AND, you get capabilities (like vocal monitoring) you won't get on a controller.

AUX fed subs shouldn't be an issue, but you WILL get a summed output .. and won't be able to run them in stereo.
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The problem isn't with what's typical, it's with what is likely. It is more likely that a DJ will not use the Yamaha effectively. We already see this in the use as:
  • an unnecessary router for sub-woofers,
  • a mic preamp with no useful filters or processing
The DJ controller is already a suitable mixer. The Yamaha doesn't provide anything he needs to get better sound but, easily adds potential for making it worse.

Connecting the subs is a non-issue.
He can reduce his primary mic in the sub by using a Shure A15HP.
 
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Proformance said:
The problem isn't with what's typical, it's with what is likely. It is more likely that a DJ will not use the Yamaha effectively. We already see this in the use as:
  • an unnecessary router for sub-woofers,
  • a mic preamp with no useful filters or processing
The DJ controller is already a suitable mixer. The Yamaha doesn't provide anything he needs to get better sound but, easily adds potential for making it worse.

Connecting the subs is a non-issue.
He can reduce his primary mic in the sub by using a Shure A15HP.
Click to expand...

The MG10 has a 80Hz low-cut filter and single knob dynamics, both useful on mics. I agree on the aux sends with limited inputs, but it can be useful for single sub setups and it does give an easy way to adjust the sub level relative to the tops.

The mic processors and inline filter will certainly work, but most of us that do some "event" work need the mixer anyway (more mic channels, routing, , so it's a lot easier to get comfortable with them.
 
steve149 said:
The MG10 has a 80Hz low-cut filter and single knob dynamics, both useful on mics.
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80Hz HPF is just mic handling noise and to low for his application. Even 100Hz is below what might be needed.
The MG10 compression is likely to make his feedback worse because he's often talking over music and there's no gate.
He only needs a limiter and he has no parameter control with that mixer.
Without sufficient mic EQ tools he's better off using the DJ mixer alone, and perhaps using the talk over feature if the mic is unstable.
 
Albatross said:
I've never seen that type of device before. That may handle it very simply.
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There's all kinds of inline problem solvers for your toolbox. :)

You could also change microphones to something like the Sennheiser 421 which has it's own 5 poitsion bass roll-off filter built in. Great if you speak from your booth, not so much if you are moving all around.

For a wireless mic a half-rack or portable processor might fit easily alongside or you can velcro it to the receiver to add what you want. For example:

Rolls GLC
Behringer FBQ100
 
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