QSC - New K12.2 vs Original K12

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Jim Davis

Professional "Craigslist DJ"
#1
So the forum search function won't let me search a string as short as "K12.2" or even "QSC K12.2." Searching this site via google didn't bring anything up either, but if this has already been discussed, my apologies.

I'm a big fan of my K12's, and as I've cut back on gigs and gotten rid of excess gear, they're the ones I've kept as mains (EV ZXA1's for ceremony/cocktail). I'm wondering how the new K12.2's compare -- both out of curiosity, and because I've been asked for recommendations by some colleagues (both DJs and other sound applications). If I was still doing tons of gigs, I'd probably just buy one and test it side by side with my K12s, but I can't justify spending the $800 at the moment.

Thoughts?
 

Jim Davis

Professional "Craigslist DJ"
#4
One thought I had from looking at them online -- I've never set up my K12's and wished they had more features. Setting up for a speech application? Set the HF switch to "vocal boost" and LF switch to "normal" (or "ext sub" if you want a low-cut filter). DJing a smaller event without a sub? Set LF switch to "deep" and HF to "normal" or maybe even leave "vocal boost" on. Quick, easy, simple and effective.

Of course companies need a reason to sell new speakers, and I definitely see the value in a DSP feature. Although I didn't keep them long, I liked the DSP settings on the EV ZLX-12P's that I had. I just wouldn't upgrade to the K12.2's strictly because of the DSP. I would need to hear a significant improvement in sound quality (and maybe the DSP achieves that) to sell my old ones for probably <= $1K and then turn around to spend $1500 on these.

If they're simply louder, I'll pass. I've never had to push the gain on the speakers past maybe the 1 O'clock position with reasonable gain settings throughout the rest of the signal chain.
 

rickryan.com

DJ Extraordinaire
Dec 9, 2009
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www.RickRyan.com
#6
Frankly, I'd like to have a set of 12s. The K10s are great but in the handful of situations where it's a PITA to haul in subs, I think the 12s in deep mode would do the job just fine. BTW, I heard a set of the 15s last year and was not impressed. Didn't look to see how they were setup (another DJ) but they weren't clear, at all.
 

Jim Davis

Professional "Craigslist DJ"
#7
Frankly, I'd like to have a set of 12s. The K10s are great but in the handful of situations where it's a PITA to haul in subs, I think the 12s in deep mode would do the job just fine. BTW, I heard a set of the 15s last year and was not impressed. Didn't look to see how they were setup (another DJ) but they weren't clear, at all.
I think a general statement can be made across makes and models that 12's will always be more precise and "tighter" than 15's -- at the expense of lesser low-end performance, of course.
 
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Proformance

DJ Extraordinaire
Nov 6, 2006
5,603
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#8
I've used them both, and unless you are frequently in situations where you need delay it's probably not a value change for you. A lot of what's in the DSP is already in a digital mixer, so the benefit of the DSP goes to someone with an analog system and no processing or delay. If you need to park a pair of speakers mid way down the room for example, and all you have is a DJ mixer then kxx.2 solves your problem with built n delay.

While the EQ switch settings may be useful in certain applications they will not compensate for a DJ in situations where a sub is called for and he chooses not too use one. They are really filters for specific applications where you could ditch more elaborate EQ or Xover from a rack.
 
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Oct 21, 2016
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#9
These look to be QSC's option to compete with the Yamaha DBR series. I have rented the DBR12 speaker from time to time and they sound great! The only difference I see in the stated specs is that Yamaha boasts a 131db where QSC is advertising 126db
If the QSC's sound anything like the DBR's, they will be huge sellers! The QSC's also have a little smaller a footprint and a couple of pounds lighter in weight.
Good move for QSC and I personally will be looking seriously at this speaker for next season.
 

DJ Bobcat

DJ Extraordinerror
Nov 8, 2014
6,199
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Oklahoma City
#10
I was just looking at these speakers on Amazon.com and reading the reviews. But the reviews all seem to be for the speaker COVERS! C’MON AMAZON!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jim Davis

Professional "Craigslist DJ"
#11
I was just looking at these speakers on Amazon.com and reading the reviews. But the reviews all seem to be for the speaker COVERS! C’MON AMAZON!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, looks like they screwed something up on the back end, like they used the same Amazon product ID for the new speakers as the old K12 covers or something. I always hesitate to rely on Amazon for pro audio gear reviews. I usually check more specialty sites like Guitar Center, B&H, ProAudioStar, etc. Definitely fewer reviews on these sites, but more likely to be seasoned professionals shopping there and not an inexperienced person trying to buy their first fancy speakers and writing an uninformed review. Actually, though, Guitar Center currently has 43 reviews on them:
https://www.guitarcenter.com/QSC/K1...udspeaker-System-with-Advanced-DSP.gc#reviews
 
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Jim Davis

Professional "Craigslist DJ"
#12
So, I did some digging regarding the K12.2 being "more powerful" than the K12's. That doesn't seem to really be the case on paper. The K12.2's specs quote the peak power, while it seems like marketing on the K12 originals quoted RMS power (like I think every audio company should, but I digress).

Looking more closely at the spec sheets, though...

k12-peak.PNG k12.2-peak.PNG

What is significant is that the K12's had a 500W/500W balance between woofer and compression driver, while the new one diverts most of the power to the woofer and a more appropriate amount to the compression driver. Also, I'm sure the efficiency has been improved in the new design... they've notched up the max SPL from 131dB to 132dB -- not an earth-shattering leap, but it's something.

It's interesting that the compression driver is smaller -- and as a side note, the new "budget" CP series sports a 1.4" compression driver as well... hmm.
 
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ittigger

Hundred Acre Industry Icon
Feb 1, 2011
14,885
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Western Maryland
#13
Some research ..

It does look like they 'routed' power better in the K.2 lineup, resulting in 'more power'. I personally never understood the 50/50 amp design in an active cabinet. I get that it's cheaper to make them the same (which is why it was done) but I don't get why you'd send that much power to something that would never use it (HF).

"....Legacy K Series ampliers were measured on a test-bench to deliver up to 500W+500W into an optimal load, with Peaks of 1000W. In contrast, the new K.2 amplier has been measured in-system to deliver 900W into the LF driver, with Peaks of 1800W. This smarter power distribution of 1800W+225W results in almost twice the power delivered to the LF driver compared to legacy K (1800W vs 1000W Peak)."..
 
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steve149

Urbane Legend
Sep 26, 2011
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Prospect, CT
#14
More options from the DSP make it nice, but it really isn't a step up (other than slightly more available power).
 
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steve149

Urbane Legend
Sep 26, 2011
20,554
29,137
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Prospect, CT
#15
These look to be QSC's option to compete with the Yamaha DBR series. I have rented the DBR12 speaker from time to time and they sound great! The only difference I see in the stated specs is that Yamaha boasts a 131db where QSC is advertising 126db
If the QSC's sound anything like the DBR's, they will be huge sellers! The QSC's also have a little smaller a footprint and a couple of pounds lighter in weight.
Good move for QSC and I personally will be looking seriously at this speaker for next season.
That's the new QSC CP series, not the K.2 series, which compete more with the older Yamaha DXR or the newer DZR series.
 
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DJ Ricky B

DJ Extraordinaire
Mar 9, 2015
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#16
So, I did some digging regarding the K12.2 being "more powerful" than the K12's. That doesn't seem to really be the case on paper. The K12.2's specs quote the peak power, while it seems like marketing on the K12 originals quoted RMS power (like I think every audio company should, but I digress).

Looking more closely at the spec sheets, though...

View attachment 35225 View attachment 35226

What is significant is that the K12's had a 500W/500W balance between woofer and compression driver, while the new one diverts most of the power to the woofer and a more appropriate amount to the compression driver. Also, I'm sure the efficiency has been improved in the new design... they've notched up the max SPL from 131dB to 132dB -- not an earth-shattering leap, but it's something.

It's interesting that the compression driver is smaller -- and as a side note, the new "budget" CP series sports a 1.4" compression driver as well... hmm.
Alto TS312 Specs
  • Output Power: 2000 W peak (1300 LF + 700 HF) 1000 W continuous RMS (650 LF + 350 HF)
  • LF Driver: 12-inch (305 mm) LF driver, 3-inch (76 mm) high-temperature voice coil
  • HF Driver: 1.4-inch (35 mm) neodymium magnet HF driver with precision wave guide
  • Crossover: 2 kHz
  • Maximum SPL: 131 dB peak, 128 dB continuous (dB SPL @ 1 m)
  • Frequency Response: 53 Hz – 20 kHz (+/- 3 dB)
  • Frequency Range: 46 Hz – 22 kHz (-10 dB)
  • Horn Coverage: 90° H x 60° V nominal
  • Equalization: Contour Switch Low and High Frequency +3dB Boost
  • Connectors: (2) XLR/TRS 1/4” (6.35 mm) combo inputs, (1) XLR link output, (1) IEC power cable input
  • Controls: (2) Volume, Power on/off switch, Contour switch, Ground-Lift switch
  • Indicators: 2 x Power LED (front and rear), Clip limiter LED
  • Protection: Electronic clip, Thermal and transducer overdrive protection
  • Power Connection: IEC with Mains Fuse
  • AC Voltage Input: 100,110-120,220–240 V, 50/60 Hz
  • Enclosure: Trapezoidal, injection-molded, polypropylene enclosure, with perforated steel grille
  • Mounting/Installation: 36 mm standard pole mount, Wall or ceiling mount using TSB125 bracket, Flown application with integral M10 suspension points, Wedge monitor
  • Dimensions: (H x W x D): 23.8” x 13.9” x 13.8” / 605mm x 354mm x 350mm
  • Net Weight: 35.9 lbs. / 16.3 kg.
  • Design Origin: Designed and tuned in the USA


Alto TS312 - $299
QSC K2.12 - $799

:scratchhead::dontknow::thumbsup:-:D
 

ittigger

Hundred Acre Industry Icon
Feb 1, 2011
14,885
11,499
115
Western Maryland
#18
Alto TS312 Specs
  • Output Power: 2000 W peak (1300 LF + 700 HF) 1000 W continuous RMS (650 LF + 350 HF)
  • LF Driver: 12-inch (305 mm) LF driver, 3-inch (76 mm) high-temperature voice coil
  • HF Driver: 1.4-inch (35 mm) neodymium magnet HF driver with precision wave guide
  • Crossover: 2 kHz
  • Maximum SPL: 131 dB peak, 128 dB continuous (dB SPL @ 1 m)
  • Frequency Response: 53 Hz – 20 kHz (+/- 3 dB)
  • Frequency Range: 46 Hz – 22 kHz (-10 dB)
  • Horn Coverage: 90° H x 60° V nominal
  • Equalization: Contour Switch Low and High Frequency +3dB Boost
  • Connectors: (2) XLR/TRS 1/4” (6.35 mm) combo inputs, (1) XLR link output, (1) IEC power cable input
  • Controls: (2) Volume, Power on/off switch, Contour switch, Ground-Lift switch
  • Indicators: 2 x Power LED (front and rear), Clip limiter LED
  • Protection: Electronic clip, Thermal and transducer overdrive protection
  • Power Connection: IEC with Mains Fuse
  • AC Voltage Input: 100,110-120,220–240 V, 50/60 Hz
  • Enclosure: Trapezoidal, injection-molded, polypropylene enclosure, with perforated steel grille
  • Mounting/Installation: 36 mm standard pole mount, Wall or ceiling mount using TSB125 bracket, Flown application with integral M10 suspension points, Wedge monitor
  • Dimensions: (H x W x D): 23.8” x 13.9” x 13.8” / 605mm x 354mm x 350mm
  • Net Weight: 35.9 lbs. / 16.3 kg.
  • Design Origin: Designed and tuned in the USA


Alto TS312 - $299
QSC K2.12 - $799

:scratchhead::dontknow::thumbsup:-:D
The math says there's something you're missing. If it looks too good to be true, it usually is. These 2 are not competitors. You can't sell anything that compares to a lamborghini for less than 1/2 the price of a lamborghini. You can't buy a mansion on a trailer budget .. and you can't get QSC K12.2 performance out of a speaker less than 1/2 the price.

My QSC's have never failed. Period. That's enough for me to be a repeat customer. I have heard of Alto failures. Combined with the low price point and the knowledge that you can't get something for nothing, that's enough for me to not even attempt it.
 
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steve149

Urbane Legend
Sep 26, 2011
20,554
29,137
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Prospect, CT
#19
I said it a few years ago .. in the rental fleets (as I was part of many conferences) you'll find Yamaha DXR, JBL PRX and QSC K series (most often) .. workhorses ..